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RedWingCraig

Wings looking to trade before using buyouts

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I think that's true with some fans, but many fans and I think management didn't expect his numbers to improve from what he had given in the years previous to his extension.

He's always been a 25-30 goal scorer with 50-60 pts.

If they thought he was going to be a 35-40 goal scorer and a 75-80pt player they'd have paid him a lot more money, and they'd be talking about buying him out right now.

Holland thinks the idea of buying out Franzen is "crazy" so I think they are quite happy with his play.

I think they would expect some uptick from those numbers, considering he was 29 when he signed the big contract, and after a career (in Sweden and 2 NHL seasons) of being primarily a defensive-minded center/winger, he found his scoring touch at age 27, scoring 27 and 34 goals, in addition to 13 and 12 goals in the playoff runs of '08 and '09. I figure they were hoping for an improvement over 34-25--59 in his contract year. They have gotten steady (overall) production at just below those numbers. The frustrating part is that he shows flashes of dominance, 40-goal capability, then he vanishes to the Swedish backwoods for a month or so before showing up again. And the cap hit is under $4M strictly because of the length of the contract. Had he signed a 5- or 6-year deal, we would have been looking at possibly $5-6M per year.

I also would not buy him out this summer, Holland's reasoning is all valid. Should they have a buyout still available next summer and should Franzen's production tail off significantly, I would consider it then, but only if he had a brutal season. But to say they're "happy" with his play might be a bit of a stretch. The numbers aren't bad, but the consistency and interest often don't seem to be there.

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One poster brings up replacing Tootoo and the East and everyone goes off the deep end.

No one is talking about reshaping the roster or our style of play. It's just that Tootoo is the most aggressive player we have and losing him would create a hole. It helps to have players like that throughout your roster and especially in the bottom 6 to wear down your opponent. We have little to none.

It's not about enforcers, it's about guys that can crash and bang and still play a normal shift without being a liability.

It's not about the East, it's about being a difficult team to play against both with and without the puck.

I'd much rather keep Tootoo over Emerton, Bertuzzi, or Sammuelsson.

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Even at that stage, no 40-goal, 80-point player was being paid only $4m on a long-term contract.

True, but Franzen wasn't putting up those numbers at that time. I think they locked him up long-term thinking he might be able to produce at that level for 2-3 years. Either way, his cap hit is fine for his numbers, even a bit of a bargain. The tradeoff comes in a couple-few years when he is no longer producing like this, but is still taking up almost $4M of cap space.

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I think the thing that stands out to me more than anything in this discussion is the coaching job Mike Babcock did this past season. I'm not knocking Holland here because he tried for Suter/Parise, but otherwise last summer was a failure. Every signing (minus Brunner) is being mentioned as a buyout candidate (Samuelsson, Colaiacovo, Tootoo) and the other move in Gustavsson couldn't perform well enough to even see the ice. In a sense, the patchwork roster was probably beneficial going forward because of the valuable experience gained for the young guys.

Holland has to be aggressive this off-season. The Red Wings are only a couple pieces away from serious contention, but the best players on the team aren't getting any younger. I think adding at least one top-six forward (ideally a winger with size) is imperative and that means no more Filppula for starters. I get the sense Weiss is the main target right now.

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I would definetly rather see the Wings make a few trades before buying-out players. Perhaps they can get a good deal(s) and get some other quality players that can help us get back to the Cup!!

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Im fine with parting ways with Flip, Cleary, Brunner, Bert, Sammy, Tootoo, Colo, and White. Use Buyouts, Trades, Retirements, whatever. Just wipe the slate clean of them and the 17+ mil they come with.

Z-Dats-Franzen

Nyquist-Helm-Abdelkader

Tatar-Andersson-Eaves

Miller-Emdog-Sheahan

Pulks-Jurco

Kronwall-Ericsson

Quincey-Smith

Kindl-Lashoff

Almquist

Howard

Gustavsson

I like that line up and an extra 10 mil to spend at some point then having all that excess garbage.

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http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=pipe42/latest/1/0/954249/clip/0

Button's last mock draft,,,can live with the Wings pick



Im fine with parting ways with Flip, Cleary, Brunner, Bert, Sammy, Tootoo, Colo, and White. Use Buyouts, Trades, Retirements, whatever. Just wipe the slate clean of them and the 17+ mil they come with.

Z-Dats-Franzen
Nyquist-Helm-Abdelkader
Tatar-Andersson-Eaves
Miller-Emdog-Sheahan
Pulks-Jurco

Kronwall-Ericsson
Quincey-Smith
Kindl-Lashoff
Almquist

Howard
Gustavsson

I like that line up and an extra 10 mil to spend at some point then having all that excess garbage.

Guess you traded Dekeyser?

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I'd much rather keep Tootoo over Emerton, Bertuzzi, or Sammuelsson.

Especially since those guys are replaceable in our own lineup. We don't have anyone else like Tootoo on the roster. He makes us more balanced.

And it's not just Boston being a tough team. Toronto has a tough team as well, and we may run into them in the playoffs next season. Philly always likes tougher lineups if they can get back to being a playoff team.

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Especially since those guys are replaceable in our own lineup. We don't have anyone else like Tootoo on the roster. He makes us more balanced.

And it's not just Boston being a tough team. Toronto has a tough team as well, and we may run into them in the playoffs next season. Philly always likes tougher lineups if they can get back to being a playoff team.

Tootoo was expendable and unused in the playoffs this year. I thought the guys played a nice physical series with him out of the lineup this year and can do the same next.

If we are to get tougher move some old bodies and bring Bickell/Clarkson types in to bang near the net.

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Tootoo was expendable and unused in the playoffs this year. I thought the guys played a nice physical series with him out of the lineup this year and can do the same next.

If we are to get tougher move some old bodies and bring Bickell/Clarkson types in to bang near the net.

If you thought Detroit played "a nice physical series with him out of the lineup", then you need to get those prescriptions checked. I think I saw Abdelkader deliver a few big checks, but outside of him, nothing. Tootoo should have played in the playoffs, and will be a valuable asset next season. It's hard to win playing soft hockey, especially in the East, as much as Holland would have you believe otherwise. It's a physical game. Detroit would be wise to try and find that balance they had in the 90's, like Chicago has now.

Bickell is going to demand more money than he's worth, and I don't see Holland going after Clarkson, as much as I would like to see him in a Wings uniform next season. I hope I'm wrong, but this is Holland we're talking about...

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Blum would be a nice option if the Preds shop his rights. He is a young RHD. We could send back Filppula's rights (they could use a center of his quality) and some picks?

Thoughts?

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If you thought Detroit played "a nice physical series with him out of the lineup", then you need to get those prescriptions checked. I think I saw Abdelkader deliver a few big checks, but outside of him, nothing. Tootoo should have played in the playoffs, and will be a valuable asset next season. It's hard to win playing soft hockey, especially in the East, as much as Holland would have you believe otherwise. It's a physical game. Detroit would be wise to try and find that balance they had in the 90's, like Chicago has now.

Bickell is going to demand more money than he's worth, and I don't see Holland going after Clarkson, as much as I would like to see him in a Wings uniform next season. I hope I'm wrong, but this is Holland we're talking about...

Detroit played physical enough to win the Hawks series and the Cup. Tootoo was where he belonged for most of the series and playing him wouldn't have won anymore games. Get some big scoring bodies down low. Tootoo, Samuelson, Bertuzzi and Emerton are all expendable. I have the same faith in Holland you do, I could have lived without his free agency class last year for sure.

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Im fine with parting ways with Flip, Cleary, Brunner, Bert, Sammy, Tootoo, Colo, and White. Use Buyouts, Trades, Retirements, whatever. Just wipe the slate clean of them and the 17+ mil they come with.

Z-Dats-Franzen

Nyquist-Helm-Abdelkader

Tatar-Andersson-Eaves

Miller-Emdog-Sheahan

Pulks-Jurco

Kronwall-Ericsson

Quincey-Smith

Kindl-Lashoff

Almquist

Howard

Gustavsson

I like that line up and an extra 10 mil to spend at some point then having all that excess garbage.

That forward depth is awful. Team wouldnt be close to making the playoffs. Also Helm will never be a 2C and is closer to a 4C at this point.

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Emmerton and Tootoo are essentially worthless in trades, unless used as a make-weight as part of a bigger trade. Bert has an NTC and can't be compliance bought out because he makes <$3M

I don't understand trading Colo unless its part of a package for a better defenceman (eg Yandle). He's a good player with a low cap hit. If we trade him and don't get another d-man back, then Lashoff becomes our 7D *shudders*

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That forward depth is awful. Team wouldnt be close to making the playoffs. Also Helm will never be a 2C and is closer to a 4C at this point.

Ya know - this made me think (pretty rare :lol:)

How much different is a 'healthy' Helm when compared to Filppula?

Filppula was a 30 to 40 pts guy, and decent defensively...I'd say Helm is better defensively - however can he reach 30 to 40 pts with extra ice time? I think he could.

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Emmerton and Tootoo are essentially worthless in trades, unless used as a make-weight as part of a bigger trade. Bert has an NTC and can't be compliance bought out because he makes <$3M

I don't understand trading Colo unless its part of a package for a better defenceman (eg Yandle). He's a good player with a low cap hit. If we trade him and don't get another d-man back, then Lashoff becomes our 7D *shudders*

The salary restriction on compliance buyouts was only in effect prior to the start of last season. There is no longer any such restriction.

evilmrt and Rick D like this

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That forward depth is awful. Team wouldnt be close to making the playoffs. Also Helm will never be a 2C and is closer to a 4C at this point.

I got news fpr you - thats our team. Our forward depth has been poor for a long time. At least we have a gripload of cash/capspace to use with my line-up.

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Ya know - this made me think (pretty rare :lol:)

How much different is a 'healthy' Helm when compared to Filppula?

Filppula was a 30 to 40 pts guy, and decent defensively...I'd say Helm is better defensively - however can he reach 30 to 40 pts with extra ice time? I think he could.

Ha, you missed my epic epiphany on page one. I say Healthy Helm's speed, jump, and work ethic makes up for the skill descrepency between he and Filp. He is a perfect fit between Franzen and Zetterberg, and allows Nyq/Andy/Tatar to stay together as an great 3rd line.

Get Dats a big gun to play with, Clarkson-esque, and we've got a great lineup.

Abby/Dats/Clarkson(type)

Franzen/Helm/Zetterberg

Nyq/Andy/Tatar

Miller/Emmy/Eaves(Toots)

Bert

Thats balance, thats compete, thats encouraging. Thats doable. We can win with that.

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I got news fpr you - thats our team. Our forward depth has been poor for a long time. At least we have a gripload of cash/capspace to use with my line-up.

I've got news for you. That's not our team. You conveniently left off 5 signed roster players and two UFAs very likely to be resigned.

If that's what you'd like our team to be that's cool. But don't say "that's our team".

And forward depth was one of our greatest strengths this year with the league-leading injuries totals. Don't know what team you were watching.

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I don't understand trading Colo unless its part of a package for a better defenceman (eg Yandle). He's a good player with a low cap hit. If we trade him and don't get another d-man back, then Lashoff becomes our 7D *shudders*

You don't like lashoff? I thought he looked more comfortable on the blueline than some of our other guys. He seemed to have the composure of a vet for most of the season.he struggled in the few playoff games he played, but he had been out of the lineup for weeks at that point
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Ya know - this made me think (pretty rare :lol:)

How much different is a 'healthy' Helm when compared to Filppula?

Filppula was a 30 to 40 pts guy, and decent defensively...I'd say Helm is better defensively - however can he reach 30 to 40 pts with extra ice time? I think he could.

Ha, you missed my epic epiphany on page one. I say Healthy Helm's speed, jump, and work ethic makes up for the skill descrepency between he and Filp. He is a perfect fit between Franzen and Zetterberg, and allows Nyq/Andy/Tatar to stay together as an great 3rd line.

Get Dats a big gun to play with, Clarkson-esque, and we've got a great lineup.

Abby/Dats/Clarkson(type)

Franzen/Helm/Zetterberg

Nyq/Andy/Tatar

Miller/Emmy/Eaves(Toots)

Bert

Thats balance, thats compete, thats encouraging. Thats doable. We can win with that.

Now I love me some Helm but it seems everyone is forgetting the struggles he has to have his hands catch up with his feet...

If there's one thing Filppula has over Helm is that his hands are far more superior. Helm's skill set is ideal for a 3rd line center.

He just doesn't have the finishing nor the playmaking ability to be a 2nd line center.

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???? - Kron

E - Smith

Deke - Lash/????

Lash/????

- kron needs a real #1,2 RHD to help out

- E is not a #2 but he's a soild #3,4 and could help smith alot

- deke and lash 1st full year in the nhl cola or another vet could split with them n help them

Right Handed D-Men

Zach Bogosian, WPG
Tyler Myers, BUF
Drew Doughty, LA
P.K. Subban , MTL
Shea Weber, NSH
Adam Larsson, NJD
Alex Pietrangelo, STL
Kevin Shattenkirk, STL
John Carlson, WSH
Kevin Bieksa, VAN
Adam McQuaid, BOS
Cody Franson, TOR
Dan Girardi, NYR
Brent Burns, SJS

others...

TRADE

Kindl

Quincey

Filppula (rights)

Samuelsson ( Accepts trade to play or Buyout and probly not get signed )

1st rounder ( maybe.. with our 3rd if it helps to get really good player and there 2nd )

Emmerton

other people,picks

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Sounds like Andrew Ference will not be back with the Bruins next season.

A couple of quotes from the Bruins locker room clean out, "Andrew" is of course Ference and "CJ" Claude Julien.

@NHLBruins: Andrew: "with the current cap, Peter's not going to be able to keep me. He's got to resign Tuukka & obviously do his side of the business".

@NHLBruins: CJ on Ference: "we're sitting here knowing that we're not just losing a good player, but a good leader - he's always gone above & beyond".

I'm not terribly familiar with him. Could he be a worthwhile acquistion?

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Sounds like Andrew Ference will not be back with the Bruins next season.

A couple of quotes from the Bruins locker room clean out, "Andrew" is of course Ference and "CJ" Claude Julien.

@NHLBruins: Andrew: "with the current cap, Peter's not going to be able to keep me. He's got to resign Tuukka & obviously do his side of the business".

@NHLBruins: CJ on Ference: "we're sitting here knowing that we're not just losing a good player, but a good leader - he's always gone above & beyond".

I'm not terribly familiar with him. Could he be a worthwhile acquistion?

pretty sure he lost a fight to Crosby lol

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