brett 1,029 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 stay down kindl i want to see him play Ansar Khan @AnsarKhanMLive 1h Wings will recall D Ryan Sproul from GR for practice Tues. because Olympic Swedes Kronwall/Ericsson given day off. Kindl (knee) questionable 1 martinezsvsu reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Not sure how I feel about this. Pavel Datsyuk was scheduled to land in Detroit on Monday and practice Tuesday after being given a few days off to spend in Russia after the Olympics. Datsyuk played in all five games for Russia, after appearing in two games for the Red Wings before the break, but it’s not a given that he’ll be ready for Wednesday. “He wasn’t 100 percent before the Olympics,” Holland said. “I want to see how Pav is feeling.” http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/the-latest-on-weiss-players-returning-from-the-olympics-and-more Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martinezsvsu 240 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 stay down kindl i want to see him play put him with dekeyser and let him fire away! i want to see that slap shot everyone talks about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Weiss's first full season was 2002/03. From that season through today, his teams have played a total of 844 regular season games. Weiss has played a total of 673 games out of those 844. he misses 20% of the total games played by his teams for his career. he missed most of last season and now this season. Why should he and the guy that signed him be given a break? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barabbas16 499 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) no I do not. fact, Samuelssons point totals from season to season were very inconsistent, and we already knew how lazy he could be from his time previously in Detroit. He spent 4 years with the wings, left and then was brought back past his prime, at the ripe age of 35. No one was angry the first time he was around, but his second time around we all knew it was going to be a train wreck. Weiss is 5 years younger then Mikael was when we signed him, and he has been a lot more consistent goals and assists wise over his career. You can go look at your numbers and pretend you know what you are talking about all you want, but those of us who actually watch hockey know what we're talking about. Yes, Weiss could end up being a bust, but is not even remotely close to the same situation, the only thing the two have in common is they are both nhl players being paid by the red wings. I'll try to be nice enough not to respond in kind to your unnecessary and condescending next-to-last sentence.... If, by 'go look at my numbers,' you mean state actual facts instead of posing my opinion as fact by putting "fact" in front of it, like you did. I'll spare you the actual numbers. I did go look at them, though. And, looking at 05-06 to 11-12, Weiss's ppg varied a very similar amount to that of Samuelsson's (Weiss actually varied higher). Not, "a lot more consistent," as you state. Additionally, even if his numbers did vary as much as you have fabricated inside your head that they did, that, along with his age, are things that Holland would/should have taken into consideration when Samuelsson was signed. Thus, the beef is with Holland, not Samuelsson. I think any of us, had we been in Samuelsson's position, would have signed that contract too. And, as is already established, Samuelsson's injuries last year can't be held against him any more than Weiss's can be held against him this season. Also - being NHL players for the Red Wings is the only thing the have in common - also false. They're forwards, were both injured in their first season of the current contract and had been injured the previous season. Both are also currently questionable free agent signings by Ken Holland. Where we agree: He spent 4 years with the wings and the rest of that sentence. No one was angry the 1st time around. And, Weiss is 5 years younger. Edited February 25, 2014 by barabbas16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,485 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 I'll try to be nice enough not to respond in kind to your unnecessary and condescending next-to-last sentence.... If, by 'go look at my numbers,' you mean state actual facts instead of posing my opinion as fact by putting "fact" in front of it, like you did. I'll spare you the actual numbers. I did go look at them, though. And, looking at 05-06 to 11-12, Weiss's ppg varied a very similar amount to that of Samuelsson's (Weiss actually varied higher). Not, "a lot more consistent," as you state. Additionally, even if his numbers did vary as much as you have fabricated inside your head that they did, that, along with his age, are things that Holland would/should have taken into consideration when Samuelsson was signed. Thus, the beef is with Holland, not Samuelsson. I think any of us, had we been in Samuelsson's position, would have signed that contract too. And, as is already established, Samuelsson's injuries last year can't be held against him any more than Weiss's can be held against him this season. Also - being NHL players for the Red Wings is the only thing the have in common - also false. They're forwards, were both injured in their first season of the current contract and had been injured the previous season. Both are also currently questionable free agent signings by Ken Holland. Where we agree: He spent 4 years with the wings and the rest of that sentence. No one was angry the 1st time around. And, Weiss is 5 years older. Fact, Samuelsson missed most of last season with questionable injuries, sore pectoral mussel ring a bell? in 06-07 Weiss hit 48 points, he never dipped below 40 after that before the lockout, he hit 60+ twice and 57 in that time frame, out of those 6 seasons he scored 20 plus goals 4 times. Like I said if you watched you would see that Samuelsson was very inconsistent, because he was lazy sure his numbers look similar, but that is mostly a bi product of who he played with, and a lot of secondary assists. He had a lot of stretches of not scoring his first time with the wings. Weiss has had 2 fairly severe injuries the last two seasons (both requiring surgery) which inflates his average games missed due to injury count. I feel like given a healthy season he will have no problem getting 60+ points with the talent we have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barabbas16 499 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Not sure how I feel about this. http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/the-latest-on-weiss-players-returning-from-the-olympics-and-more He seemed healthy enough to contribute vs. the U.S. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barabbas16 499 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Fact, Samuelsson missed most of last season with questionable injuries, sore pectoral mussel ring a bell? in 06-07 Weiss hit 48 points, he never dipped below 40 after that before the lockout, he hit 60+ twice and 57 in that time frame, out of those 6 seasons he scored 20 plus goals 4 times. Like I said if you watched you would see that Samuelsson was very inconsistent, because he was lazy sure his numbers look similar, but that is mostly a bi product of who he played with, and a lot of secondary assists. He had a lot of stretches of not scoring his first time with the wings. Weiss has had 2 fairly severe injuries the last two seasons (both requiring surgery) which inflates his average games missed due to injury count. I feel like given a healthy season he will have no problem getting 60+ points with the talent we have. All irrelevant points. I never argued that Samuelsson scored more or was a better player. And, as I clearly stated, I didn't include last season or this season in the comparison. So, you comments on the injuries do not apply. Although, Samuelsson was also injured at the same time, so I hardly see the point of mentioning it. However, I agree that he is capable of 60 points with Detroit. And he should get that, based on what he is paid. It's not going to happen this season, though. But just fyi, over that same seven(7) season period, Weiss played 22 more games than Samuelsson did. Also during that time period, Weiss averaged 6% higher points per game than Samuelsson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,485 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 All irrelevant points. I never argued that Samuelsson scored more or was a better player. And, as I clearly stated, I didn't include last season or this season in the comparison. So, you comments on the injuries do not apply. Although, Samuelsson was also injured at the same time, so I hardly see the point of mentioning it. However, I agree that he is capable of 60 points with Detroit. And he should get that, based on what he is paid. It's not going to happen this season, though. But just fyi, over that same seven(7) season period, Weiss played 22 more games than Samuelsson did. Also during that time period, Weiss averaged 6% higher points per game than Samuelsson. actually you did, when you compared them both having injuries in their first years of their contracts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barabbas16 499 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) actually you did, when you compared them both having injuries in their first years of their contracts. Ah, you're right! They do have a LOT more in common than just being nhl players for the Red Wings and they actually are quite comparable. I'm glad we agree on that now. I meant the statistical comparison. But, you're right, I didn't clarify that. So, why did you bring up his injuries as defense for Weiss when Samuelsson was also injured? Are you saying that Weiss's injuries should be viewed or treated differently because... you feel like they were more serious? Edited February 25, 2014 by barabbas16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Weiss's first full season was 2002/03. From that season through today, his teams have played a total of 844 regular season games. Weiss has played a total of 673 games out of those 844. he misses 20% of the total games played by his teams for his career. he missed most of last season and now this season. Why should he and the guy that signed him be given a break? That's silly. Prior to last year he had 6 straight years of 74 or more games. And that after he had major injuries in 2 of the previous 3 seasons. By your logic, that shouldn't have been possible. Contrary to what you seem to think, a player being injured does not mean they will remain injured for the rest of their career, nor that they will suffer an injury of equal (or progressively worse) degree every season. Even if any of that was true, we should still have every reason to be confident that he can produce better than he has thus far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,485 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Ah, you're right! They do have a LOT more in common than just being nhl players for the Red Wings and they actually are quite comparable. I'm glad we agree on that now. I meant the statistical comparison. But, you're right, I didn't clarify that. So, why did you bring up his injuries as defense for Weiss when Samuelsson was also injured? Are you saying that Weiss's injuries should be viewed or treated differently because... you feel like they were more serious? because samuelsson had a sore boob, thats a joke not an injury Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Ah, you're right! They do have a LOT more in common than just being nhl players for the Red Wings and they actually are quite comparable. I'm glad we agree on that now. I meant the statistical comparison. But, you're right, I didn't clarify that. So, why did you bring up his injuries as defense for Weiss when Samuelsson was also injured? Are you saying that Weiss's injuries should be viewed or treated differently because... you feel like they were more serious? because samuelsson had a sore boob, thats a joke not an injury Torn muscles hurt. #experience Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,756 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 It's been a long time since I took Intro to Logic in college. But I'm pretty sure that it's entirely possible that Weiss could both suck this season AND still be a good signing...regardless of his injury proneness or lack thereof. Does that seem reasonable or have we devolved to the point in which "either/or" logic is the law of the land? 1 Frozen-Man reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Not sure how I feel about this. http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/the-latest-on-weiss-players-returning-from-the-olympics-and-more And so it begins... It will really hurt if Pavs can't play - if so he could have been receiving treatment during that time (maybe his family could have visited here a bit so that could happen - he is a millionaire after all). Pavs has been treated VERY nicely by the wings organization through all of this and I just hope it doesn't bite us in the ass when the games start up again and he is still out injured. Also I understand being liberal with Pavs in terms of injuries etc. but Weiss hasn't really earned that from the wings - if he doesn't play a few conditioning games in GR before starting and ends up playing at subpar speed and costing us games I will be livid. I hope its not a pride thing that he doesn't want to play in GR and keeps deferring it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 @AnsarKhanMLive: Datsyuk said he hopes to play tomorrow but didn't sound like it's a sure thing. Said the pain in knee is same as before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 @AnsarKhanMLive: Datsyuk said he hopes to play tomorrow but didn't sound like it's a sure thing. Said the pain in knee is same as before. Good enough for olympics but not good enough for the team that pays his bills. I love the guy but this irks me. 3 Detroit \# 1 Fan, GoWings1905 and Cloune reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Good enough for olympics but not good enough for the team that pays his bills. I love the guy but this irks me. Agreed. If Pav doesn't go tomorrow, I will not be pleased. If the knee isn't healed enough to play for the Red Wings, then it shouldn't have been fine to play for Russia either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ash11 78 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 I agree, il be very disappointed if pav is out tomorrow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 The Datsyuk stuff is disappointing, so is Weiss' news. However I read in the mlive article that Samuelsson is on IR after sustaining an injury in GR, so that gives us even more flexibility going forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomTestedTough 8 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 The Datsyuk stuff is disappointing, so is Weiss' news. However I read in the mlive article that Samuelsson is on IR after sustaining an injury in GR, so that gives us even more flexibility going forward. The rumor I heard down at the Van Andle is that he went home to Sweden. Not sure what will happen with him and his contract. I can't see him walking away from all that money but it would be nice to free up more cap space. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) The rumor I heard down at the Van Andle is that he went home to Sweden. Not sure what will happen with him and his contract. I can't see him walking away from all that money but it would be nice to free up more cap space. I'm very much inclined to believe that rumor. He was brutal for GR, suffered a legit injury (again) and if he goes on LTIR he still gets paid but we gain his cap space and roster spot. He's been done since last year, now maybe for good. Adding to Hank being on LTIR for the home stretch, I'd be surprised if Holland sits on his hands when he all of a sudden has so much room. Just having a quick look on CapGeek, with Z and Sammy on LTIR and having a 23 man roster (sans Jurco, with Sheahan) we'd have just over 7 mil to make a move. Edited February 25, 2014 by Detroit # 1 Fan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 I'm very much inclined to believe that rumor. He was brutal for GR, suffered a legit injury (again) and if he goes on LTIR he still gets paid but we gain his cap space and roster spot. He's been done since last year, now maybe for good. Adding to Hank being on LTIR for the home stretch, I'd be surprised if Holland sits on his hands when he all of a sudden has so much room. Just having a quick look on CapGeek, with Z and Sammy on LTIR and having a 23 man roster (sans Jurco, with Sheahan) we'd have just over 7 mil to make a move. 7 mil??? Oh good god. I don't like trading, but holland better make a move with that amount of room. 1 Detroit \# 1 Fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 229 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 datsyuk stuff is getting annoying. was willing to to play in the olympics but he's not willing to play for the wings through injury? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted February 25, 2014 datsyuk stuff is getting annoying. was willing to to play in the olympics but he's not willing to play for the wings through injury? Captaining his home country (possibly his only chance) was a big deal for him. He's given so much to us, IMO it's only fair he get that special opportunity. Now that he's back I don't want him playing till he's 100% though 4 Son of a Wing, roboturner, dropkickshanahans and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
