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gcom007

Nyquist since Datsyuk's Return & Unnatural NHL Development

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Is anyone else slightly concerned that Nyquist hasn't scored a goal since Datsyuk returned?

It's only been 4 games, and obviously every situation is different, and who knows what really goes on in these guys' heads, but I always wonder when a young guy comes up and plays great while stars are out of the lineup because oftentimes once the stars come back, it seems that they lose track of whatever it was that helped them play great. I don't know if they relax or start defaulting to playing a different style or if they just lose some confidence when they're not being looked to as "the guy" anymore, but something seems to happen that negatively affects some of these young players' performances when the veteran stars come back.

Hopefully this isn't a trend with Nyquist, but this is the longest he's gone without a goal since January, and that was before he really heated up. I missed more than half of the game today as I accidentally fell asleep while trying to get rid of a headache, but I noticed that even with the 5 minute overtime, Nyquist's ice time was on the low side tonight; 14:44 when he's been averaging 16-19 minutes more often than not. Has anyone noticed anything different about his play since Datsyuk returned? You'd think he'd get more room now with teams having to worry about Datsyuk again, but it's yet to translate to him putting the puck in the net.

If this is a legitimate issue for Nyquist and others that have and will come through our system, I wonder if the situation could be improved if some of these kids were worked into the system earlier and got more of a chance to develop in normal circumstances while our veteran stars and leaders are part of the lineup. I don't think it's natural or necessarily good for them to get their first taste of serious NHL ice time only when the team suffers from long-term injuries, especially when it's the team's leaders that are out of the lineup. If they come up and have that adrenaline rush of not only playing but getting a lot of ice time and some time in the spotlight as "the guy," only to have that role slip away as soon as someone comes back into the lineup, it's bound to affect them mentally.

Maybe the expectations get too inflated based on exceptional performance during a unique period of time. Then, once they're playing in a normal lineup again, they're busy trying to learn to play in a system that is different from when they had their initial moment to shine, thus likely not living up to expectations that are based on unique circumstances. On top of that, given how long we traditionally keep guys in GR, these kids are even more motivated to make a splash when they do get their moment, which again, might lead to a stream of brilliant play that they struggle to maintain once they start having to learn to deal with the typical pressures and grind of NHL hockey.

The bottom line is that I don't think it's a fluke that guys like Nyquist score like they do, as I think it's obvious that some of these guys have a ton of potential. I am more concerned with whether it's really such a great idea to leave them to develop for so long in the minors as opposed to bringing them up and allowing them to adjust to the NHL and to the normal state of an NHL team in a more gradual manner. Then when they truly find their game and get something special going, it isn't something happening in an unusual circumstance before having time to adjust to other things NHLers need to adjust to.

In any event, at least as far as Nyquist is concerned, hopefully this is much ado about nothing and he gets it going again quick.

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I think this is a bit of an over reaction. He isn't playing bad and has still been getting some assists. I thought him and Tatar were fantastic tonight and look to be establishing the chemistry they had before babs broke them up.

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While I'm sure it slightly disrupts the chemistry in the very short term, his impact is 2 goals in 3 games and adds so much just being on the bench/ice. It might curb some of Nyquist's numbers, but Pav may also drive Gus to play even better.

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I'd imagine this is pretty regular stuff in the day to day of being a hockey player. He will have to adjust and find his role again, like any good hockey player. Just be glad we know what he is capable of and Babcock can play him with a lot of confidence.

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You also have to realize he is getting a lot of press around the league so opposing players are going to be paying much mor attention to him.

This. Also Nyquist can't be expected to score at that kind of pace for the long term. If he did he would have like 50 goals or something. He stepped up his game and got some good bounces for a while and now he will just keep plugging.

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This. Also Nyquist can't be expected to score at that kind of pace for the long term. If he did he would have like 50 goals or something. He stepped up his game and got some good bounces for a while and now he will just keep plugging.

Exactly. What we saw from Goose wasn't typical production IMO. He was on pace for over 40 goals and I think he's closer to a 30 goal guy.

So, it's not like something's wrong with his play now, in fact it's more normal than it was when he was on his rampage.

Opie likes this

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Who knows that whack on the boards he got in the Sabre's game might have shook him up a bit more than then we know. I have no worries about him its Franzen that needs to go the AHL ride some buses and get back to mule mode.

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Who knows that whack on the boards he got in the Sabre's game might have shook him up a bit more than then we know. I have no worries about him its Franzen that needs to go the AHL ride some buses and get back to mule mode.

Not to derail this thread, but anyone bashing Mule's play hasn't been watching him. Yes he's snake-bitten but he's had a ton of chances and he's playing well, driving the net, going to the tough areas, etc.

Edited by rick zombo

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Exactly. What we saw from Goose wasn't typical production IMO. He was on pace for over 40 goals and I think he's closer to a 30 goal guy.

So, it's not like something's wrong with his play now, in fact it's more normal than it was when he was on his rampage.

Heyyyyy Gus is the future! He's a 50 goal guy :P lol

Seriously though ... Yes I'm sure teams are checking him closer now but I'm also sure they were when he was still scoring , he's been the leading scorer since January 20 so that's 2 + months

I do find it odd that he hasn't scored since datsyuk returned ... But more odd, and not because he hasn't scored is I haven't really seen any great scoring threats from him? I don't know his shots on goal but it seems to me like he hasn't been really visible

I'm sure he will be back to his Gus self in the playoffs

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What I find interesting is that no one here seems to mind that Pulkkinen only has a couple games of NHL experience. If we're saying that Nyquist (24) and Tatar (23) should've been getting serious NHL ice time when they were 20, well, Pulkkinen is already two years past that mark. Why are we not wringing our hands and gnashing our teeth over this? Isn't this Nyquist and Tatar all over again?

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What I find interesting is that no one here seems to mind that Pulkkinen only has a couple games of NHL experience. If we're saying that Nyquist (24) and Tatar (23) should've been getting serious NHL ice time when they were 20, well, Pulkkinen is already two years past that mark. Why are we not wringing our hands and gnashing our teeth over this? Isn't this Nyquist and Tatar all over again?

The main difference is that this is Pulkkinen's first full year of North American hockey. Tatar was 18-19 in his first season & Nyquist was 19. If either of them had seen NHL action at 20, they still would have had a full season of NA hockey experience before hand.

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4 games without a goal? Trade him.

He was crazy hot. He cooled off. That doesn't mean he's been bad, just means he hasn't scored everytime he's touched the puck. There is absolutely zero reason to worry about Gus. He played amazing with Z, so I doubt having our stars in the lineup hurts him.

Chill, and realize how ridiculous he has been for it to be a concern that he hasn't scored in 4 games.

TheXym and nyqvististhefuture like this

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Ya, relax, at least he doesn't take months off like Franzee...

I do think when Babs mixed up the lines he screwed with the chemistry a bit, but hopefully he goes back to what was working before!

Put Nyquist back on a line with Legwand, if you want to move Abby up, put him on that line, Franzee is useless anywhere, but we have to play him in case he decides to go on one of his 4 game scoring streaks before his 14 game drought.

Re-unite the kids-line and plug Datsyuk in with Alfie and Franzee

Nyquist - Legwand - Abdelkader

Franzee - Datsyuk - Alfie

Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco

Helm - Glendening - Miller

That's actually a really nice line up...

Jeez, just looking at that lineup, what the heck is gonna happen next season when Z and Weiss are back?

paulwoodsfan likes this

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The main difference is that this is Pulkkinen's first full year of North American hockey. Tatar was 18-19 in his first season & Nyquist was 19. If either of them had seen NHL action at 20, they still would have had a full season of NA hockey experience before hand.

They were just rhetorical questions.

Pulkkinen will be 23 next year, with a full (and very impressive) season of North American pro hockey under his belt. He's leading the Griffins. He made the AHL all-rookie team. He's a RH sniper with a cannon of a shot. But the only way he gets serious NHL ice time next season is if we lose a couple guys to injury. If we're arguing that our most promising kids need to be getting serious NHL ice time pretty much as early and often as possible, why is no one worrying about Pulkkinen? (Rhetorical question.) Or how about Sheahan? First-round pick. Big and strong. NA hockey's all he's ever known. And yet, very few seemed to care that he hadn't come anywhere close to serious NHL ice time until very recently. Why is that? (Rhetorical question.)

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Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Glendening, Dekeyser... Holy crap, who's of thought we'd be making the playoffs with 6 MF'ing rookies on this team?

I think that Pulk's development is what made Jarnkrok tradable. Both super, super talents, but Pulk, like Dab's said, is a RH sniper which we lack. He has exemptions through next season and by time 2015 hits, he will be more than ready to step in.

I just hope, if Weiss isn't traded, he doesn't mind moving to wing, because our 4 centers right now are great. Legwand, Datsyuk, Sheahan and Glenny....nice! Helm looks good on the wing as well, less pressure on him and he can concentrate on developing that scoring touch!

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4 games without a goal? Trade him.

He was crazy hot. He cooled off. That doesn't mean he's been bad, just means he hasn't scored everytime he's touched the puck. There is absolutely zero reason to worry about Gus. He played amazing with Z, so I doubt having our stars in the lineup hurts him.

Chill, and realize how ridiculous he has been for it to be a concern that he hasn't scored in 4 games.

We joke, but people think Franzen should be a 40+ scorer based on a similar breakout hot streak six years ago. If Nyquist settles in as a 25-30 goal guy, he could be our new whipping boy.

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Try to bear in mind that I'm not trying to overreact to Nyquist not scoring in a few games. That's less the point than wondering if these kids would be better served getting a shot at the NHL earlier than they do, coming out of camp with a healthy team, as opposed to spending perhaps too much time in GR only to get thrust into the NHL when guys get hurt for extended periods of time. The approach you're going to have and expectations are going to be different, and if you come up and shine fast, those expectations can get raised, perhaps too much so and well before you've really had time to adjust to the team and to the NHL. I have wondered about this sort of thing for many years now with other guys that have come through the system, it's just all the more in focus the last two years as we really have had to ride the Griffins to the playoffs.


We joke, but people think Franzen should be a 40+ scorer based on a similar breakout hot streak six years ago. If Nyquist settles in as a 25-30 goal guy, he could be our new whipping boy.

Nyquist isn't such a one-dimensional player like Franzen and tends to always be skating harder and faster, so I don't think we'll have to worry about that even if he doesn't become a scoring force.


They were just rhetorical questions.

Pulkkinen will be 23 next year, with a full (and very impressive) season of North American pro hockey under his belt. He's leading the Griffins. He made the AHL all-rookie team. He's a RH sniper with a cannon of a shot. But the only way he gets serious NHL ice time next season is if we lose a couple guys to injury. If we're arguing that our most promising kids need to be getting serious NHL ice time pretty much as early and often as possible, why is no one worrying about Pulkkinen? (Rhetorical question.) Or how about Sheahan? First-round pick. Big and strong. NA hockey's all he's ever known. And yet, very few seemed to care that he hadn't come anywhere close to serious NHL ice time until very recently. Why is that? (Rhetorical question.)

And I would say that if there's any truth to my concerns about the way these guys develop, he should make the Red Wings out of camp next year and start developing in the NHL in a smaller role and let him work into a bigger role if he can. Don't thrust it on him all at once because you're in a desperate situation. I think in general though, our kids have been making a major case for Holland changing up the way he does things. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

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You also have to realize he is getting a lot of press around the league so opposing players are going to be paying much mor attention to him.

Exactly, he's had so many goals stripping the D at our blue line and streaking away, that they are going to be much more careful when he is on the ice now.

Not to mention, he had more than a few fluky goals in that streak.

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Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Glendening, Dekeyser... Holy crap, who's of thought we'd be making the playoffs with 6 MF'ing rookies on this team?

I think that Pulk's development is what made Jarnkrok tradable. Both super, super talents, but Pulk, like Dab's said, is a RH sniper which we lack. He has exemptions through next season and by time 2015 hits, he will be more than ready to step in.

I just hope, if Weiss isn't traded, he doesn't mind moving to wing, because our 4 centers right now are great. Legwand, Datsyuk, Sheahan and Glenny....nice! Helm looks good on the wing as well, less pressure on him and he can concentrate on developing that scoring touch!

Unfortunately I don't think anybody would want weiss ... I don't see how we can keep both weiss and legwand next 3 years ... Like someone said pulkkinen needs to get some games in next season ... Mantha will be here in 2 yrs 3 max

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gcom007, I noticed this too. Although Nyquist is scoring on 20% of his shots, he has to cool off and come back down to earth. But the timing of when Datsyk returns is odd. Since Dats has returned the play style on the team has changed, it's slower, and not as explosive or even exciting to watch as when he was out and the kids took over.

The last 3 games have been, well, boring (I missed half the Mtl game tho) and I don't see the kids storming off like before. Why?

Well, I think it's called the Datsyuk effect (I was going to start a thread on this but you already did). Does anyone remember during the HBO series when the younger guys were out to dinner and they were talking and Datsyuk came up, how awed they were of him and someone said, "just get him the puck". I thought this was bad thinking and it's going to continually hamper our chances moving forward if everyone feels they have to get Dats the puck or get him in on the play rather then just playing their game.

When the kids play their game we see what they can do. If we interject new Datsyukian chemistry they are no longer playing their game but watching what he is doing and letting him QB everything. I see this as a big problem.

Tatar seems to be in a world of his own and is continually finding holes and making things happen on his own tho.

So yes, the chemistry has changed with Dats back, I think we got slower. I also don't have any solutions, this is just an observation.

(please don't flame me, I love the Magic Man, but he is 36)

Edited by LAWings

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Gus suddenly not scoring after his scorching hot streak looks bad on paper, but is actually a great thing. The Wings have always played a team first system. Bowman implemented this in the 90's and we haven't looked back. Remember the grind line? They scored TIMELY goals not hattricks. This is why when you track other players' who have been traded away by the wings they only go one of two ways; the players either become the team's best player or are never heard from again. When they become that very rare occurrence of being productive and flying under the radar, Holland trades for them back.

Going back to Gus' situation, he's a goal scorer/game changer but he's in a team/defense first mentality. When Dats returned, he and his linemates were given a different role. Their line was to cycle the puck and push through the defense so Dats and his line could score. Yes Gus should be on that line to score. However, the post season is upon them and they need to start playing as a unit on a system designed to win 2-1 games. Gus has not lost his touch and his line will be a game breaker come playoff time. How if nobody there is scoring? By attracting enough attention to the point of the team shuffling their lines before every game to match up. This creates chemistry problems. In a game where every inch on the ice matters, this is very significant.

In short, Gus is not scoring because he was given a different role and is matched to play against scoring lines.

marcaractac likes this

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It's not like he's on a 10 game scoreless streak. He was just on such a torrid pace that it looks bad now that he isn't scoring 2 every game. He still looks good out there to me and that's what's important. I will say though that I think the kid line is better with Jurco on it and Nyquist would be better off somewhere else, like Franzen's spot maybe.

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