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Nyquist since Datsyuk's Return & Unnatural NHL Development


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#1 gcom007

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:17 AM

Is anyone else slightly concerned that Nyquist hasn't scored a goal since Datsyuk returned?

 

It's only been 4 games, and obviously every situation is different, and who knows what really goes on in these guys' heads, but I always wonder when a young guy comes up and plays great while stars are out of the lineup because oftentimes once the stars come back, it seems that they lose track of whatever it was that helped them play great. I don't know if they relax or start defaulting to playing a different style or if they just lose some confidence when they're not being looked to as "the guy" anymore, but something seems to happen that negatively affects some of these young players' performances when the veteran stars come back. 

 

Hopefully this isn't a trend with Nyquist, but this is the longest he's gone without a goal since January, and that was before he really heated up. I missed more than half of the game today as I accidentally fell asleep while trying to get rid of a headache, but I noticed that even with the 5 minute overtime, Nyquist's ice time was on the low side tonight; 14:44 when he's been averaging 16-19 minutes more often than not.  Has anyone noticed anything different about his play since Datsyuk returned? You'd think he'd get more room now with teams having to worry about Datsyuk again, but it's yet to translate to him putting the puck in the net.

 

If this is a legitimate issue for Nyquist and others that have and will come through our system, I wonder if the situation could be improved if some of these kids were worked into the system earlier and got more of a chance to develop in normal circumstances while our veteran stars and leaders are part of the lineup. I don't think it's natural or necessarily good for them to get their first taste of serious NHL ice time only when the team suffers from long-term injuries, especially when it's the team's leaders that are out of the lineup. If they come up and have that adrenaline rush of not only playing but getting a lot of ice time and some time in the spotlight as "the guy," only to have that role slip away as soon as someone comes back into the lineup, it's bound to affect them mentally.

 

Maybe the expectations get too inflated based on exceptional performance during a unique period of time. Then, once they're playing in a normal lineup again, they're busy trying to learn to play in a system that is different from when they had their initial moment to shine, thus likely not living up to expectations that are based on unique circumstances. On top of that, given how long we traditionally keep guys in GR, these kids are even more motivated to make a splash when they do get their moment, which again, might lead to a stream of brilliant play that they struggle to maintain once they start having to learn to deal with the typical pressures and grind of NHL hockey. 

 

The bottom line is that I don't think it's a fluke that guys like Nyquist score like they do, as I think it's obvious that some of these guys have a ton of potential. I am more concerned with whether it's really such a great idea to leave them to develop for so long in the minors as opposed to bringing them up and allowing them to adjust to the NHL and to the normal state of an NHL team in a more gradual manner. Then when they truly find their game and get something special going, it isn't something happening in an unusual circumstance before having time to adjust to other things NHLers need to adjust to.

 

In any event, at least as far as Nyquist is concerned, hopefully this is much ado about nothing and he gets it going again quick. 


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#2 wings_fanatic

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:37 AM

I think this is a bit of an over reaction. He isn't playing bad and has still been getting some assists. I thought him and Tatar were fantastic tonight and look to be establishing the chemistry they had before babs broke them up.

#3 thegerkin

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:57 AM

While I'm sure it slightly disrupts the chemistry in the very short term, his impact is 2 goals in 3 games and adds so much just being on the bench/ice. It might curb some of Nyquist's numbers, but Pav may also drive Gus to play even better.



#4 darkmanx

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 06:39 AM

Quick, trade him while he still has value....



#5 Seraph

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:35 AM

I'd imagine this is pretty regular stuff in the day to day of being a hockey player. He will have to adjust and find his role again, like any good hockey player. Just be glad we know what he is capable of and Babcock can play him with a lot of confidence.

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#6 wingfan13

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:52 AM

You also have to realize he is getting a lot of press around the league so opposing players are going to be paying much mor attention to him.
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#7 wingedominance13

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:56 AM

I'd be worried if he was not contributing on the ice. but he is still making an impact on the game. just not putting it in the net.



#8 dirtydangles

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:07 AM

You also have to realize he is getting a lot of press around the league so opposing players are going to be paying much mor attention to him.

This. Also Nyquist can't be expected to score at that kind of pace for the long term. If he did he would have like 50 goals or something. He stepped up his game and got some good bounces for a while and now he will just keep plugging. 


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#9 rick zombo

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:15 AM

This. Also Nyquist can't be expected to score at that kind of pace for the long term. If he did he would have like 50 goals or something. He stepped up his game and got some good bounces for a while and now he will just keep plugging. 

 

Exactly. What we saw from Goose wasn't typical production IMO. He was on pace for over 40 goals and I think he's closer to a 30 goal guy.

 

So, it's not like something's wrong with his play now, in fact it's more normal than it was when he was on his rampage.


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#10 AtlantaHotWings

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:16 AM

Who knows that whack on the boards he got in the Sabre's game might have shook him up a bit more than then we know.  I have no worries about him its Franzen that needs to go the  AHL ride some buses and get back to mule mode. 


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#11 rick zombo

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:54 AM

Who knows that whack on the boards he got in the Sabre's game might have shook him up a bit more than then we know.  I have no worries about him its Franzen that needs to go the  AHL ride some buses and get back to mule mode. 

 

Not to derail this thread, but anyone bashing Mule's play hasn't been watching him. Yes he's snake-bitten but he's had a ton of chances and he's playing well, driving the net, going to the tough areas, etc.


Edited by rick zombo, 10 April 2014 - 08:55 AM.

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#12 nyqvististhefuture

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:58 AM

Exactly. What we saw from Goose wasn't typical production IMO. He was on pace for over 40 goals and I think he's closer to a 30 goal guy.
 
So, it's not like something's wrong with his play now, in fact it's more normal than it was when he was on his rampage.


Heyyyyy Gus is the future! He's a 50 goal guy :P lol

Seriously though ... Yes I'm sure teams are checking him closer now but I'm also sure they were when he was still scoring , he's been the leading scorer since January 20 so that's 2 + months

I do find it odd that he hasn't scored since datsyuk returned ... But more odd, and not because he hasn't scored is I haven't really seen any great scoring threats from him? I don't know his shots on goal but it seems to me like he hasn't been really visible

I'm sure he will be back to his Gus self in the playoffs

#13 Dabura

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 09:14 AM

What I find interesting is that no one here seems to mind that Pulkkinen only has a couple games of NHL experience. If we're saying that Nyquist (24) and Tatar (23) should've been getting serious NHL ice time when they were 20, well, Pulkkinen is already two years past that mark. Why are we not wringing our hands and gnashing our teeth over this? Isn't this Nyquist and Tatar all over again?


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#14 ogreslayer

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 09:30 AM

What I find interesting is that no one here seems to mind that Pulkkinen only has a couple games of NHL experience. If we're saying that Nyquist (24) and Tatar (23) should've been getting serious NHL ice time when they were 20, well, Pulkkinen is already two years past that mark. Why are we not wringing our hands and gnashing our teeth over this? Isn't this Nyquist and Tatar all over again?

 

The main difference is that this is Pulkkinen's first full year of North American hockey.  Tatar was 18-19 in his first season & Nyquist was 19.  If either of them had seen NHL action at 20, they still would have had a full season of NA hockey experience before hand.



#15 dat's sick

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 09:32 AM

4 games without a goal? Trade him.




He was crazy hot. He cooled off. That doesn't mean he's been bad, just means he hasn't scored everytime he's touched the puck. There is absolutely zero reason to worry about Gus. He played amazing with Z, so I doubt having our stars in the lineup hurts him.

Chill, and realize how ridiculous he has been for it to be a concern that he hasn't scored in 4 games.

#16 LeftWinger

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:14 AM

Ya, relax, at least he doesn't take months off like Franzee...

 

I do think when Babs mixed up the lines he screwed with the chemistry a bit, but hopefully he goes back to what was working before!

 

Put Nyquist back on a line with Legwand, if you want to move Abby up, put him on that line, Franzee is useless anywhere, but we have to play him in case he decides to go on one of his 4 game scoring streaks before his 14 game drought.

 

Re-unite the kids-line and plug Datsyuk in with Alfie and Franzee

 

Nyquist - Legwand - Abdelkader

Franzee - Datsyuk - Alfie

Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco

Helm - Glendening - Miller

 

That's actually a really nice line up...

 

Jeez, just looking at that lineup, what the heck is gonna happen next season when Z and Weiss are back?


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#17 Dabura

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:24 AM

The main difference is that this is Pulkkinen's first full year of North American hockey.  Tatar was 18-19 in his first season & Nyquist was 19.  If either of them had seen NHL action at 20, they still would have had a full season of NA hockey experience before hand.

 

They were just rhetorical questions.

 

Pulkkinen will be 23 next year, with a full (and very impressive) season of North American pro hockey under his belt. He's leading the Griffins. He made the AHL all-rookie team. He's a RH sniper with a cannon of a shot. But the only way he gets serious NHL ice time next season is if we lose a couple guys to injury. If we're arguing that our most promising kids need to be getting serious NHL ice time pretty much as early and often as possible, why is no one worrying about Pulkkinen? (Rhetorical question.) Or how about Sheahan? First-round pick. Big and strong. NA hockey's all he's ever known. And yet, very few seemed to care that he hadn't come anywhere close to serious NHL ice time until very recently. Why is that? (Rhetorical question.)


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#18 LeftWinger

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:31 AM

Sheahan, Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Glendening, Dekeyser... Holy crap, who's of thought we'd be making the playoffs with 6 MF'ing rookies on this team?

 

I think that Pulk's development is what made Jarnkrok tradable.  Both super, super talents, but Pulk, like Dab's said, is a RH sniper which we lack.  He has exemptions through next season and by time 2015 hits, he will be more than ready to step in.

 

I just hope, if Weiss isn't traded, he doesn't mind moving to wing, because our 4 centers right now are great.  Legwand, Datsyuk, Sheahan and Glenny....nice! Helm looks good on the wing as well, less pressure on him and he can concentrate on developing that scoring touch!


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#19 Buppy

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:47 AM

4 games without a goal? Trade him.




He was crazy hot. He cooled off. That doesn't mean he's been bad, just means he hasn't scored everytime he's touched the puck. There is absolutely zero reason to worry about Gus. He played amazing with Z, so I doubt having our stars in the lineup hurts him.

Chill, and realize how ridiculous he has been for it to be a concern that he hasn't scored in 4 games.

We joke, but people think Franzen should be a 40+ scorer based on a similar breakout hot streak six years ago. If Nyquist settles in as a 25-30 goal guy, he could be our new whipping boy.



#20 gcom007

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:43 AM

Try to bear in mind that I'm not trying to overreact to Nyquist not scoring in a few games. That's less the point than wondering if these kids would be better served getting a shot at the NHL earlier than they do, coming out of camp with a healthy team, as opposed to spending perhaps too much time in GR only to get thrust into the NHL when guys get hurt for extended periods of time. The approach you're going to have and expectations are going to be different, and if you come up and shine fast, those expectations can get raised, perhaps too much so and well before you've really had time to adjust to the team and to the NHL. I have wondered about this sort of thing for many years now with other guys that have come through the system, it's just all the more in focus the last two years as we really have had to ride the Griffins to the playoffs. 


We joke, but people think Franzen should be a 40+ scorer based on a similar breakout hot streak six years ago. If Nyquist settles in as a 25-30 goal guy, he could be our new whipping boy.

 

Nyquist isn't such a one-dimensional player like Franzen and tends to always be skating harder and faster, so I don't think we'll have to worry about that even if he doesn't become a scoring force.


 

They were just rhetorical questions.

 

Pulkkinen will be 23 next year, with a full (and very impressive) season of North American pro hockey under his belt. He's leading the Griffins. He made the AHL all-rookie team. He's a RH sniper with a cannon of a shot. But the only way he gets serious NHL ice time next season is if we lose a couple guys to injury. If we're arguing that our most promising kids need to be getting serious NHL ice time pretty much as early and often as possible, why is no one worrying about Pulkkinen? (Rhetorical question.) Or how about Sheahan? First-round pick. Big and strong. NA hockey's all he's ever known. And yet, very few seemed to care that he hadn't come anywhere close to serious NHL ice time until very recently. Why is that? (Rhetorical question.)

 

And I would say that if there's any truth to my concerns about the way these guys develop, he should make the Red Wings out of camp next year and start developing in the NHL in a smaller role and let him work into a bigger role if he can. Don't thrust it on him all at once because you're in a desperate situation. I think in general though, our kids have been making a major case for Holland changing up the way he does things. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. 


-Elliot...does not panic.





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