Dan Boyle's rights traded to the Islanders…..

[DickieDunn 2,571]

They won't have a rookie as the reserve. It would be stupid to have a kid who could be playing major minutes in Grand Rapids sitting in the press box on a regular basis. you see that from a bottom feeder occasionally, but Detroit won't do it. Lashoff will be kept as the #7. Kindl and Lashoff together wouldn't come close to bringing a second rounder anyway. Maybe a 4th.

They won't?? What was Lashoff then?

Reality is, we have too many prospects. Some will be traded

So where do our highly touted defensive prospects go?

Realistically only one prospect makes it.

Kronwall-Ericsson

New guy-Smith

DeKeyser-Prospect

Lashoff was out of options this year

[wings4thecup06 504]

They continue to play in GRs for another 2 years.

1 year for Marchenko, Ouellet and Sproul maybe, but 2 years? No doubt after that they might be pretty unhappy and pull an Almquist. I can't see how at least 2 of those 3 won't be ready for their full time shot at the end of this coming season. I might be wrong, but I think we're looking at a 1 year bridge really.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Reality is, we have too many prospects. Some will be traded

Realistically only one prospect makes it.

Kronwall-Ericsson

New guy-Smith

DeKeyser-Prospect

I like that. I was asking Leftwinger, who wants to sign 2 Defencemen and also didn't mention moving Kindl.

[VM1138 1,921]

Yandle is great offensively, not so much defensively. If the Wings are going to give up the prospects to get him, they need to get someone better.

What we need is an offensive guy. Our defense is almost entirely defense-first guys. If the player is good enough offensively, we can risk having one guy who isn't amazing at defense. Especially if Quincey and Kindl are gone. We don't need defensive guys, we need someone to get the offense going from the back end, which has been our bread and butter for over a decade. The team started going down once we started losing offensive d-men.

Balance is key, and an offensive guy who isn't necessarily the best at defense is fine under the current condition of the team.

I like that. I was asking Leftwinger, who wants to sign 2 Defencemen and also didn't mention moving Kindl.

Two defensemen would be nice, but only if we move one of Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith or Dekeyser. I was just assuming they're here to stay. But Holland tried to trade Smith once, so he's not untouchable.

Frankly, I'd like to keep those four, get our offensive D-man for the top 4 (preferably a top guy who can give us a 1B pairing) and bring up a prospect (Oullet, Sproul, Marchenko) full-time and use a call-up for our reserve defenseman. We don't need to roll with 7 defenseman like we have been. It's convenient but it's not something we HAVE to do.

EDIT: And as for "overpaying," you can't be picky when your team is stagnant or declining. Our team has at least one glaring need. Defense. You overpay if you have to. If there's only one player that fits your need, and he's in demand, you get him if you want to ice a competitive team. To a degree, of course but you all know what I mean. We can't pretend we're not in a bad spot and pass on everyone because it's a prospect or a million more than we wanted to part with.

[wings4thecup06 504]

EDIT: And as for "overpaying," you can't be picky when your team is stagnant or declining. Our team has at least one glaring need. Defense. You overpay if you have to. If there's only one player that fits your need, and he's in demand, you get him if you want to ice a competitive team. To a degree, of course but you all know what I mean. We can't pretend we're not in a bad spot and pass on everyone because it's a prospect or a million more than we wanted to part with.

The good news here I think is that due to the cap rising and the fact that we've got a good amount of room means we can afford to overpay, at least for the next couple of season. definitely works in our favour

[DickieDunn 2,571]

What we need is an offensive guy. Our defense is almost entirely defense-first guys. If the player is good enough offensively, we can risk having one guy who isn't amazing at defense. Especially if Quincey and Kindl are gone. We don't need defensive guys, we need someone to get the offense going from the back end, which has been our bread and butter for over a decade. The team started going down once we started losing offensive d-men.

Balance is key, and an offensive guy who isn't necessarily the best at defense is fine under the current condition of the team.

Kronwall is balanced, but leans more towards being an offensive guy over defense. Smith is mostly offense. Kindl is supposed to be a puck mover. Ericsson, Dekeyser, Lashoff are defensive d-men.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Kronwall is balanced, but leans more towards being an offensive guy over defense. Smith is mostly offense. Kindl is supposed to be a puck mover. Ericsson, Dekeyser, Lashoff are defensive d-men.

That's exactly my problem with the way Kronwall has been used since Lids retired. The guy is asked to run the PP instead of focusing on shutting down the other teams best players and be physical force (i.e KRONWALLED). Yeah he is trying hard but it just isn't his strong side. The problem is save for Niskanen nobody will be available to fill that role and I don't think a soon to be 38 year old Boyle is going to be the answer to our problems.

[number9 3,297]

That's exactly my problem with the way Kronwall has been used since Lids retired. The guy is asked to run the PP instead of focusing on shutting down the other teams best players and be physical force (i.e KRONWALLED). Yeah he is trying hard but it just isn't his strong side. The problem is save for Niskanen nobody will be available to fill that role and I don't think a soon to be 38 year old Boyle is going to be the answer to our problems.

Seriously though. Kindl and Smith have yet to show offensive upside. Unless they suddenly show up next year, we are again dealing with Kronwall as our ONLY puck moving defender again. And yes Kronwall can move the puck, but like Frank said I'd rather he compliment a puck mover defensively than take on the entire responsibility himself.

If Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, are not next years puck moving answer, then a stop gap puck mover like Boyle should be signed to the shortest deal possible.

[wings4thecup06 504]

Seriously though. Kindl and Smith have yet to show offensive upside. Unless they suddenly show up next year, we are again dealing with Kronwall as our ONLY puck moving defender again. And yes Kronwall can move the puck, but like Frank said I'd rather he compliment a puck mover defensively than take on the entire responsibility himself.

If Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, are not next years puck moving answer, then a stop gap puck mover like Boyle should be signed to the shortest deal possible.

IMO, I think Smith has shown some pretty good upside offensively. He's scored some pretty decent goals, joined the rush and used his great skating to his advantage. Granted, he needs to learn more about when to pinch or not, but thats a learning process.

I think the bad part is the fact that Babs consistently used Kindl on the second PP unit instead of Smith.

Overall though yea we definitely need someone to step up and help give Kronner a break

[anthonyn66 89]

IMO, I think Smith has shown some pretty good upside offensively. He's scored some pretty decent goals, joined the rush and used his great skating to his advantage. Granted, he needs to learn more about when to pinch or not, but thats a learning process.

I think the bad part is the fact that Babs consistently used Kindl on the second PP unit instead of Smith.

Overall though yea we definitely need someone to step up and help give Kronner a break

Kindl needs to go, especially if we're looking to bring in a RH offensive defenseman. He's the most expendable and has the least upside. There should be a team that would take him to help hit cap floor, flip him for a pick.

Smith has way more upside, and I would not be happy if he were traded for anything that wasn't great. He plays like Subban, a risky player but it pays off when his pushes work. Remember when Babcock talked to him on 24/7? He just needs to minimize his risk and up his conversion, and be paired with a guy like Ericsson or Kronwall.

[e_prime 1,936]

Seriously though. Kindl and Smith have yet to show offensive upside. Unless they suddenly show up next year, we are again dealing with Kronwall as our ONLY puck moving defender again. And yes Kronwall can move the puck, but like Frank said I'd rather he compliment a puck mover defensively than take on the entire responsibility himself.

If Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, are not next years puck moving answer, then a stop gap puck mover like Boyle should be signed to the shortest deal possible.

I don't think Kindl is capable of "showing up."

The only place I want him to "show up" is on another team.

If he's not traded for a better d-man, I'm willing to give Smith some more time to grow.

I was patient with Ericsson, I can be patient with Smith.

Realistically, until he got bumped up to pair with Kronwall, he was being tasked with being more defensively responsible. While I think that's something he needs to learn to balance out his game, I just don't see how that was going to happen when he was constantly with Quincey.

IMO, I think Smith has shown some pretty good upside offensively. He's scored some pretty decent goals, joined the rush and used his great skating to his advantage. Granted, he needs to learn more about when to pinch or not, but thats a learning process.

I think the bad part is the fact that Babs consistently used Kindl on the second PP unit instead of Smith.

Overall though yea we definitely need someone to step up and help give Kronner a break

Kindl has no business being on the PP.

Edited June 11, 2014 by e_prime

[Guest DeGraa55]

Seriously though. Kindl and Smith have yet to show offensive upside. Unless they suddenly show up next year, we are again dealing with Kronwall as our ONLY puck moving defender again. And yes Kronwall can move the puck, but like Frank said I'd rather he compliment a puck mover defensively than take on the entire responsibility himself.

If Kindl, Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, are not next years puck moving answer, then a stop gap puck mover like Boyle should be signed to the shortest deal possible.

Corsi stats prove smith is OUR BEST 5 on 5 buck mover and suggest that if he was given the same PP time as kronwall he would've had more points. He did have more 5 on 5 points.

[Rivalred 630]

Corsi stats prove smith is OUR BEST 5 on 5 buck mover and suggest that if he was given the same PP time as kronwall he would've had more points. He did have more 5 on 5 points.

I am about to take Corsi stats outback and take a huge dump on it

[e_prime 1,936]

I am about to take Corsi stats outback and take a huge dump on it

I LOL'ed.

[krsmith17 7,191]

You can say what you like about corsi stats, love em or hate em, they are somewhat accurate and are becoming more and more commonly used. I don't care too much for them, but then again I don't care too much for any stats really. Yes stats are important but I'd much prefer to just watch the game and base my opinion on players and teams based on the trusty ol eye ball test. And anyone that has watched Smith over the latter half of last season and has come to the conclussion that he is "useless" or "tradeable" or whatever, obviously haven't been watching the same Brendan Smith as me and the entire Red Wings brass. Everyone in the Red Wings organization are very high on Smith, and like myself, believe that he has the tools to be a top pairing guy in this league.

[e_prime 1,936]

If people think Smith is useless, they're clueless.

...but I certainly think he's trade-able, just not a MUST TRADE NOW. (Like Kindl)

I'm also not a stats guy, but they're certainly important to measuring player worth, effectiveness, etc.

Marek and Wysh had their goalie guy on the other day (I can't recall his name. Will edit later) and he was talking goal stats which is interesting, but at the same time IMMENSELY BORING to the layman, average fan, or pretty much anyone who isn't a scout or super-nerd. (No offense to the super-nerds. I'm one. Just not for stats.)

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree with that. I don't believe ANY player is untradeable. I think Pittsburgh would trade Crosby with the right return but of course it would have to be massive over payment. And everyone knows Gretzky was traded, not once but twice... But I stand by my statement. I believe that if Smith was traded, it would be a huge mistake and people would be calling for Holland's head a few years down the road...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Kronwall has never been the shut down guy. That was Stuart's job, now it's Ericsson's.

Smith puts up decent numbers for his role and who he's on the ice with.

[Guest DeGraa55]

I am about to take Corsi stats outback and take a huge dump on it

That's cute. Then just look at your stats on NHL.com. It still doesn't change the fact that smith had more points in 5on 5 play then kronwall or any ither defenseman with us. So that means he should be on the PP much more than he was.

[amato 3,210]

kronner-smith

ericsson-niskinen

dekeyser-prospect

that sounds pretty solid to me, especially with continued growth of smith, dekeyser, & prospect..

[wings4thecup06 504]

I don't really get all the love for people crying out to acquire Niskanen. For starters the guy is going to want a monster contract that ultimately he isn't worth, and secondly I think we'd be better off going with a veteran (ala Boyle) and bringing up Ouellet. Better yet, trading Kindl. Free agency isn't the cure for everything. It's a very overpriced auction, and at the end of the day, it's not like there's a Ryan Suter out there for us to snap up.

Edited June 11, 2014 by wings4thecup06

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Corsi stats prove smith is OUR BEST 5 on 5 buck mover and suggest that if he was given the same PP time as kronwall he would've had more points. He did have more 5 on 5 points.

Corsi may be a factor in analyzing production/success but it is by no means some super stat that you use alone to prove anything. It's highly subjective and flawed (like many stats) but good for complimentary analysis.

That's cute. Then just look at your stats on NHL.com. It still doesn't change the fact that smith had more points in 5on 5 play then kronwall or any ither defenseman with us. So that means he should be on the PP much more than he was.

No it doesn't...

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Free agency just like Trade Deadline is a weapon the GMs have in order to improve their team. You can't build a winner solely with draft picks you can't build a winner on UFA either so the perfect balance is key here. Is Niskanen the next Suter ? No way but he certainly is a guy that could help the Wings defense out a lot more than let's say a guy like boy could. Nobody - except our scouts, Blashhill - knows if the GR defenders are ready or not.

As for overpaying well that's the nature of UFA, these players have the choice on where they want to play it's basically for most of them their last big contract so yes overpayment is part of it. I would be fine with 5 mill per for 6 - 7 years for Niskanen.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Corsi stats prove smith is OUR BEST 5 on 5 buck mover and suggest that if he was given the same PP time as kronwall he would've had more points. He did have more 5 on 5 points.

Mike Green has a higher Corsi than Ryan Suter, is he "better" too?

Also, both Dekeyser and Kronwall had more non-powerplay points. Kronwall has 24 five on five points and Dekeyser had 18 five on five and 1 shorthanded point. So that's false too.

Edited June 11, 2014 by kipwinger

[VM1138 1,921]

Kronwall is balanced, but leans more towards being an offensive guy over defense. Smith is mostly offense. Kindl is supposed to be a puck mover. Ericsson, Dekeyser, Lashoff are defensive d-men.

Smith hasn't been used as an offensive defenseman, and Kindl hasn't provided anything. I know that on paper they're supposed to be X, but in reality they're not. We need someone who is a bonafide offensive defenseman.

And to all the people who think Boyle is our salvation, he wouldn't really change the dynamic of our defense all that much. He'd just replace Quincey. Maybe he wouldn't be as bad, but he doesn't necessarily make us GOOD, and that, after all, is the whole point.