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wings4thecup06

Dan Boyle's rights traded to the Islanders…..

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Oh, plz.

The Wings aren't on the same level as the Sharks. We could really use a Dan Boyle. How does having him on the second pairing for a couple years hurt us? Are we that high on our kids that we feel we need Ouellet and Marchenko taking the hypothetical two spots available or we're not going to be able to compete for the Cup?

Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Smith, a kid, someone from the outside. That's probably what our blue line should look like next season. If that someone from the outside is Dan Boyle, that's not a bad thing. If he falters, he gets hurt - then guess what: we can bring up a kid. Win-win.

Really? We're not?

Unless you're saying that they're in a slightly better position than us... Looks pretty goddamn famililar.

Core that can't get over the hump in the playoffs? Veterans that only play well only so often?

Goaltender that TONS of the fan-base question about their ability to win a cup?

Youth that looks promising. Etc.

Except that he's going to get $5 or $6 million. You all comfortable paying that type of money for Dan Boyle?

Edited by e_prime

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Except that he's going to get $5 or $6 million. You all comfortable paying that type of money for Dan Boyle?

If it's on a one year deal, yes. We'll certainly have the cap space, so at least from a fan's perspective, it's largely irrelevant. We're not the ones paying him.

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If it's on a one year deal, yes. We'll certainly have the cap space, so at least from a fan's perspective, it's largely irrelevant. We're not the ones paying him.

It'll be relevant when THIS FAN has to listen to the rest of LGW ***** and moan about we overpaid Dan Boyle for the year... (...and we're talking about Ken Holland here... you know it'll be more than a year!!) :lol:

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Oh, plz.

The Wings aren't on the same level as the Sharks. We could really use a Dan Boyle. How does having him on the second pairing for a couple years hurt us? Are we that high on our kids that we feel we need Ouellet and Marchenko taking the hypothetical two spots available or we're not going to be able to compete for the Cup?

Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Smith, a kid, someone from the outside. That's probably what our blue line should look like next season. If that someone from the outside is Dan Boyle, that's not a bad thing. If he falters, he gets hurt - then guess what: we can bring up a kid. Win-win.

Whats the point in signing a vet like Boyle? He just hinders our progress like signing any other grizzled vet would. This team needs to sign a defenceman that can stay for a few years, or a short term D-man who can effectively hold his own and isnt as slow as Lilja

Just like adding Legwand (which did need to be done at the time; but thats another topic) Adding Boyle does not help make us a contender, so it is a waste of a roster and cap space

Edited by WingsallTheway

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I'll bet he does. Given all the good years he's given San Jose it would be really s***ty of them to trade his rights to a team he's not willing to sign with. My guess is they had a discussion with him before they pulled the trigger and he gave the ok.

It is a business and I do not remember where I read or heard it, but SJ had no intention to re-sign him and this was weeks ago. SJ for something for him; once again a business, got something for nothing Edited by Rivalred

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I'll bet he does. Given all the good years he's given San Jose it would be really s***ty of them to trade his rights to a team he's not willing to sign with. My guess is they had a discussion with him before they pulled the trigger and he gave the ok. It is a business and I do not remember where I read or heard it, but SJ had no intention to re-sign him and this was weeks ago. SJ for something for him; once again a business, got something for nothing

I hate that term yes, it's a business but hockey is also a sport loved and done by humans not robots! Boyle gave the Sharks a lot so they owe him a trade to a team where he might want to sign.

Humans >>> Business!

I hope he signs so Holland won't do something crazy

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Is signing any one player in this years free agent class going to win us a cup? No. So what's the beef with adding a guy on a short deal to help our PP? Could he be any worse than Kindl? Let me answer that for you: NO!

Edited by nawein

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Is signing any one player in this years free agent class going to win us a cup? No. So what's the beef with adding a guy on a short deal to help our PP? Could he be any worse than Kindl? Let me answer that for you: NO!

If winning the cup is the goal, and to be honest NOTHING is telling me that is our goal anymore, then we need better players than guys like Boyle. Is we are not trying to win another cup right now, then go young.

BTW there is this thing called trades. We could try it, it might work........

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I never understood that sentiment, to me it makes zero sense. "Is player X going to win us a Stanley Cup? No, so you don't add him"...

No single player can win a Stanley Cup, that is why you need to add "pieces".

A better question would be, can player X help us win games? Will he make us a better team? Yes, so you add him.

I think Boyle does make us a better team, but would he be my number one choice? No. Do we need to add other pieces besides a Boyle to help us win the Stanley Cup? Absolutely.

With Boyle we could have something like...

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Smith

Ouellet - Boyle

Lashoff

OR

With Niskanen we could have something like...

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Niskanen

Ouellet - Smith

Lashoff

Which one looks better? I like option two better but option one wouldn't be the worst thing, and is certainly an upgrade over last year, in my opinion...

Edited by krsmith17

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Guest DeGraa55   
Guest DeGraa55

I never understood that sentiment, to me it makes zero sense. "Is player X going to win us a Stanley Cup? No, so you don't add him"...

No single player can win a Stanley Cup, that is why you need to add "pieces".

A better question would be, can player X help us win games? Will he make us a better team? Yes, so you add him.

I think Boyle does make us a better team, but would he be my number one choice? No. Do we need to add other pieces besides a Boyle to help us win the Stanley Cup? Absolutely.

With Boyle we could have something like...

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Smith

Ouellet - Boyle

Lashoff

OR

With Niskanen we could have something like...

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Niskanen

Ouellet - Smith

Lashoff

Which one loos better? I like option two better but option one wouldn't be the worst thing, and is certainly an upgrade over last year, in my opinion...

Kronwall smith

Dekeyser Ericsson

Oullete marchenko

Looks much better IMO. Unless there a few key players added we won't be competing for the cup so let the young guys get better and more experienced. They're also good enough to help us keep the stupid streak alive.

And it's perfectly fine to have the attitude of is player x going to help us win a cup. That was my attitude last year. What could Alfie and cleary bring that nyquist and jurco couldn't? Nothing except leadership and experience which we got plenty of. You only sign Boyle and Alfie if they're the missing piece to winning a cup which they aren't. Were too far away so signing them is pointless when we got other(better) players all ready in GR.

Edited by DeGraa55

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I accidently "liked" your post when I definitely disagree lol...

I love Smith. He is one of my favorite players and I think he is a future top pairing defenseman. I also think Kronwall and Smith were a good top pair to end the season, but I don't think it is our best option when everyone is healthy. I don't think Babcock will break up the Kronwall - Ericsson pairing that has been great for us. I also don't understand why you would want two of your most offensive minded defensemen on one pairing and your two best shut down defensemen on the second pairing... I would much rather mix and match offensive minded and defensive minded. That is why I would stick with Kronwall - Ericsson and DeKeyser - Smith, I think they could be a great top 4.

Also, I think a Ouellet - Marchenko third pairing would be a nightmare and everyone on here would be screaming to trade both for a bag of pucks if that happened...

Edited by krsmith17

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I never understood that sentiment, to me it makes zero sense. "Is player X going to win us a Stanley Cup? No, so you don't add him"...

No single player can win a Stanley Cup, that is why you need to add "pieces".

A better question would be, can player X help us win games? Will he make us a better team? Yes, so you add him.

I think Boyle does make us a better team, but would he be my number one choice? No. Do we need to add other pieces besides a Boyle to help us win the Stanley Cup? Absolutely.

With Boyle we could have something like...

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Smith

Ouellet - Boyle

Lashoff

OR

With Niskanen we could have something like...

Kronwall - Ericsson

DeKeyser - Niskanen

Ouellet - Smith

Lashoff

Which one looks better? I like option two better but option one wouldn't be the worst thing, and is certainly an upgrade over last year, in my opinion...

Yes. We need pieces, as in plural. More than one. That being the case what benefit is there to signing a guy like Boyle? Are we going to win more games? Maybe. Yes he improves puck movement-so would Sproul, but our defense is worse. Also young guys that need to play/develop are not allowed to do it. In the end there is one way to find out if a guy can play in the NHL. That is to play in the NHL.

Now if Holland would get off of his butt (maybe he will/is behind the scenes), do all of your BL pairs after adding a guy like say Carlson. That is the type of player or players we should be talking about. Not a stop gap like Boyle. Yes that means we have to give up some good young players. We have more. We lack stars and proven quality players that we can build around for the next 10-12 years.

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Were you trying to prove my points or did you do that accidently?... Yes, he improves our team, he improves our puck movement from the back end, and no prospect can provide everything that he can immediately. Every one of our prospects (no matter how highly we, or scouts view them) are at the very least, two years away from being impact players. How are our young players not allowed to play/develop? That is exactly what the American Hockey League is for, to develop talent. Do you think Nyquist or Tatar could have stepped in and made such an impact if they weren't "over ripe"? Definitely not. I personally like the way the Wings management team do things and I think most of our prospects (including Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, Jurco and Pulkkinen) would benefit from another year in Grand Rapids. We don't draft high, so we rarely get a talent that is rushed into the NHL right away, and I think Mantha should spend a year down in GR as well.

Anyway, back on Boyle, no he wouldn't be my first choice but he is an upgrade to our current defensive unit, so I would definitely welcome him...

As for Carlson, I would absolutely love to have this guy in a Red Wings jersey but that just isn't going to happen. What would you give up to get him because a package of Tatar, Ferraro, Almquist and a first definitely isn't going to get it done. It will be more like, Nyquist, Mantha, Sproul, a first and probably another draft pick or prospect as well. I think that is over payment and I would rather keep Nyquist, develop Mantha and Sproul into the players I think they can be, and get another couple decent prospects with those picks. That is just my opinion though...

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The best argument against signing Boyle for more than one season is that, barring injury, only one of our kids is going to get a legitimate shot over that span of time, assuming Smith isn't traded. I can respect that. At the same time, you have to weigh it against pushing for the Cup. It's not that I don't think we can push for the Cup with a couple of kids on the back end. I just think it's unlikely, versus what we might get from a name talent. Yeah, Boyle isn't the player he once was, but he's still valuable.

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Signing veteran defensemen to help this team get back on a winning track can't hurt the cause. We are gonna have a whole bunch of young players in the lineup in a few years and I doubt they'll bring what Dats and Z have been able to bring us the past 10 years. Why not add some pieces that could help us for that goal(as opposed to some playoff streak that may end up ending a lot sooner than later when Dats and Z are gone) while there's still some Cup winning talent left in these 2 before they eventually retire? We saw what the Grand Rapids can do in regular season but what they couldn't do in the post. So what's wrong with mixing in some youth, bringing in a few solid players with the cap space we are freeing up and making another run for a Cup while guys like Kronwall, Z and Dats still have gas in the tank? I see a pretty good Ranger team representing the Eastern Conference and I really feel we can get to that level with some good signings, trades and GR call ups mixed together. Rangers are not a dynasty in my eyes and they were able to benefit from a couple of good 3rd and 4th line pickups, speed and a great goalie(while their fa signings like Richards and Nash and trades for St. Louis are not the main reason for their success).

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I hate that term yes, it's a business but hockey is also a sport loved and done by humans not robots! Boyle gave the Sharks a lot so they owe him a trade to a team where he might want to sign. Humans >>> Business!I hope he signs so Holland won't do something crazy

Yeah, I agree human beings should be held above the aspect of money, but sadly it isn't like that.

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the whole point of bringing a guy on board like Boyle for 1 to 2 years is precisely to bridge the gap so that when the kids come up on the back end, they're not as overwhelmed and outplayed as they might be if they were brought up now.

IMO, I think they should just go with it and bring up XO for next year, but in reality, signing Boyle for say $5m for 1 year isn't going to do any harm.

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There's no guarantee that Quincey will be a Wing next season, and I'm personally not comfortable with Lashoff's play in a top 6 role. We could pick up Boyle (or whomever) for a year to cover Quincey should he leave, and bring up a kid from GR to win Lashoff's role, if they can take it.

No, it's not a move that will put the Wings over the top to win a Stanley Cup, but it will fill a hole and buy more time for some of our prospects to continue developing, while also allowing at least one of them to fight for a full time position next year.

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The common theme by those in favor signing Boyle is to by time. buy time for what? Datsyuk to retire? because that is what is really going to happen. Think it through for the next few years. Datsyuk has 3 years left on his contract and is getting upset BTW.... So we bring in Boyle for 2 years. Then we play a rookie. Now Datsyuk leaves. Rookies is in his soph. year. Again the talent level is dropping faster than we can replace it. Now we are 3 more years out and still not a SC contender. That is if EVERYTHING goes our way. Add a couple injuries or have guys fail to develop and we are screwed. Yes, this is a bunch of unknowns. But here is the thing about unknowns (prospects): other teams like them.

Do we right now have the ability to make a deal for a true top 4 Dman that can be here for another 8-10 years, without destroying our future? yes we do.

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The common theme by those in favor signing Boyle is to by time. buy time for what? Datsyuk to retire? because that is what is really going to happen. Think it through for the next few years. Datsyuk has 3 years left on his contract and is getting upset BTW.... So we bring in Boyle for 2 years. Then we play a rookie. Now Datsyuk leaves. Rookies is in his soph. year. Again the talent level is dropping faster than we can replace it. Now we are 3 more years out and still not a SC contender. That is if EVERYTHING goes our way. Add a couple injuries or have guys fail to develop and we are screwed. Yes, this is a bunch of unknowns. But here is the thing about unknowns (prospects): other teams like them.

Do we right now have the ability to make a deal for a true top 4 Dman that can be here for another 8-10 years, without destroying our future? yes we do.

Would Love to see the article where Dats says he's upset

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The common theme by those in favor signing Boyle is to by time. buy time for what? Datsyuk to retire? because that is what is really going to happen. Think it through for the next few years. Datsyuk has 3 years left on his contract and is getting upset BTW.... So we bring in Boyle for 2 years. Then we play a rookie. Now Datsyuk leaves. Rookies is in his soph. year. Again the talent level is dropping faster than we can replace it. Now we are 3 more years out and still not a SC contender. That is if EVERYTHING goes our way. Add a couple injuries or have guys fail to develop and we are screwed. Yes, this is a bunch of unknowns. But here is the thing about unknowns (prospects): other teams like them.

Do we right now have the ability to make a deal for a true top 4 Dman that can be here for another 8-10 years, without destroying our future? yes we do.

I have to disagree. Considering the deals that have been rejected (reportedly) by other GM's for a top 4 defender, I'm not sure Detroit lands a guy without blowing up the prospect pipeline. Who are you willing to move? Tatar and Nyquist? Mantha? If Detroit could land a top 4 guy, moving a package of say... Smith, Pulkkinen/Frk/Athanasiou, Jensen and a 1st/2nd, perhaps, would be fine with me. But who are they realistically going to get for that package?

Honestly, if Detroit could pry Bogosian from Winnipeg by sending them Smith, Helm, another prospect and a 1st, I would do it in a second. However, I think that last player would be Mrazek (they could use a goaltender). If that last prospect is someone like a Pulu or Frk, I make the move. But it's likely a solid piece like Mrazek, and I'm not willing to give that much up, and I'm not sure how many other Wings fans are as well.

I just don't think there are many trade options out there that meet the criteria of getting a high quality, top 4 defender without overpaying for him.

Edited by Jesusberg

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I have to disagree. Considering the deals that have been rejected (reportedly) by other GM's for a top 4 defender, I'm not sure Detroit lands a guy without blowing up the prospect pipeline. Who are you willing to move? Tatar and Nyquist? Mantha? If Detroit could land a top 4 guy, moving a package of say... Smith, Pulkkinen/Frk/Athanasiou, Jensen and a 1st/2nd, perhaps, would be fine with me. But who are they realistically going to get for that package?

Honestly, if Detroit could pry Bogosian from Winnipeg by sending them Smith, Helm, another prospect and a 1st, I would do it in a second. However, I think that last player would be Mrazek (they could use a goaltender). If that last prospect is someone like a Pulu or Frk, I make the move. But it's likely a solid piece like Mrazek, and I'm not willing to give that much up, and I'm not sure how many other Wings fans are as well.

I just don't think there are many trade options out there that meet the criteria of getting a high quality, top 4 defender without overpaying for him.

But that kind of deal for say Bogosion would be mental. Like you've said, any deal for a really really high end player is going to decimate the prospect pool we have which is half the reason why things look promising. I agree with you, we don't live in the days where you could deal a bag of pucks for Zdeno Chara with Mike Milbury.

I'm prepared to be patient for the Wings to get back to the top, because these things come in cycles and you can't dominate all the time now. Yes I'd like to see KH pull the trigger on some deals, but only if they make sense. There is no one single player who will put us over the top. It takes a collection and I think we've got the right kids and the right veterans, we just need to shore up the back end a bit and get some more size IMO. I know it's frustrating, we're used to winning, to dominating, to having a playoff spot locked up by late february. But I'd rather be where we are now and then build ourselves back up than bottoming out for a couple of years. Being competitive and in the hunt is always entertaining and this season was an absolute roller coaster.

To clarify, I'm not saying I want every season to be like last, I'm saying that I can accept it might take a couple more years for us to be back at the top. But who knows, if the Rangers can make the Cup final, why can't we?

Edited by wings4thecup06

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