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wings4thecup06

Dan Boyle's rights traded to the Islanders…..

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I wouldn't be opposed to Boyle for a year or 2...

Let Q walk, trade Kindl and Lashoff for a 2nd rounder...trade Helm, Smith, 1st for Kesler...sign Boyle, sign Morris, rotate Marchenko and XO in the 6th, 7th spot...

Kronwall - Ericsson

Dekeyser - Boyle

Marchenko - Morris

Ouellet

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They won't have a rookie as the reserve. It would be stupid to have a kid who could be playing major minutes in Grand Rapids sitting in the press box on a regular basis. you see that from a bottom feeder occasionally, but Detroit won't do it. Lashoff will be kept as the #7. Kindl and Lashoff together wouldn't come close to bringing a second rounder anyway. Maybe a 4th.

Jesusberg likes this

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Just using him as an example. Would we be a better team with Nyquist or Carlson? With Carlson. Again an example. Now would nyquist alone get a guy like Carlson? Nope. It would tae a little more than that-prospect and a pick. Now go one step further. Are we better with Boyle and Nyquist or Carlson and say Moulson/Callahan/vanek/Vrbata/etc..... In both case the team is better with the later.

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Shame, I could have seen him as a solid 1-2 year stop-gap and mentor for the younger guys to mature under. Than once he is done, the younger guys are ready for a bigger piece of the action. I guess he could still make his way here, could be payback for Nabokov.

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being a GM is a hard life of decisions. staying competitive is the primary goal. improving each year over the last. the decisions to "go for it" can cause long term consequences that can set a team back for many years if chosen poorly.

ask the sharks about signing joe. some would consider him to be the " guy that changes everything"

its all about percentages/chemistry/role play. a team of all-stars can win...but can they win it all?

larry murphy was considered a wash out in toronto...hated by the fans...fills role in detroit and wins.

point is....boyle can be a cog in the machine..."not the one", but a decisive role player.

until nyquist/tatar arrived, the redwings have been a team with a few stars...and a pack of mid-level guys. they need to shed a few middling players and upgrade slightly on each position.

is almquist/sproul/marchenko/ouellet better than kindl?

is boyle/niskanen/markov better than lashoff?

once you determine this to be true...you then weigh the variables. cost, trade, chemistry of position in system. would niskanen be a positive ( for the money) in a young team, being the go-to guy to bring outlet passes, run the 2nd powerplay? or would markov suit that position better? of course we can sit back and say yea...niskanen all day....but would that be worth it? younger guys would have to wait, be traded, or leave the wings for euro.

i have decided to back away from stressing about moves the GM makes...the GM is doing what he can with what he can.

i wanted OEL 5 years ago...i wish eaves wouldnt have been traded....i wanted burmistrov on a wing with pav...i wished we kept brunner.....i think almquist could be a great offensive guy....blah blah blah.

it doesnt matter what i do, say, or wish. our gm will do what he thinks can work. we have to trust ken in his decisions just like we trust pavel with the puck.

we have a great GM running the wings...he may be controvercial with some decisions ( see: cleary) but we dont know the locker room/office/payroll/personalitys, like he does.

all i know is...we have never tanked a season to get the #1 draft pick. there is honor in life and being a wings fan, i hold that one in my pocket. ( im looking at you chicago/pittsburgh) thats my idea of a team buying the cup. (personally i think the first team out of playoffs gets #1 pick.= no more tanked seasons) EVER.

finally...my overall opinion is that, dont trade the kids unless its almost a sure thing, boyle might be ok, niskanen might be great, kesler is a cancer, stasny would be epic. monster is good by me, ciao sammy, gonna miss you bert, cleary who?, quincey/kindl...well...you coulda shoulda woulda. and last but not least... prepare for mantha!

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Hey luvmnger, I wish I could "like" that post multiple times. Well said. I don't necessarily agree with every single little detail but definitely agree with the overall idea there.

luvmnger likes this

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being a GM is a hard life of decisions. staying competitive is the primary goal. improving each year over the last. the decisions to "go for it" can cause long term consequences that can set a team back for many years if chosen poorly.

ask the sharks about signing joe. some would consider him to be the " guy that changes everything"

its all about percentages/chemistry/role play. a team of all-stars can win...but can they win it all?

larry murphy was considered a wash out in toronto...hated by the fans...fills role in detroit and wins.

point is....boyle can be a cog in the machine..."not the one", but a decisive role player.

until nyquist/tatar arrived, the redwings have been a team with a few stars...and a pack of mid-level guys. they need to shed a few middling players and upgrade slightly on each position.

is almquist/sproul/marchenko/ouellet better than kindl?

is boyle/niskanen/markov better than lashoff?

once you determine this to be true...you then weigh the variables. cost, trade, chemistry of position in system. would niskanen be a positive ( for the money) in a young team, being the go-to guy to bring outlet passes, run the 2nd powerplay? or would markov suit that position better? of course we can sit back and say yea...niskanen all day....but would that be worth it? younger guys would have to wait, be traded, or leave the wings for euro.

i have decided to back away from stressing about moves the GM makes...the GM is doing what he can with what he can.

i wanted OEL 5 years ago...i wish eaves wouldnt have been traded....i wanted burmistrov on a wing with pav...i wished we kept brunner.....i think almquist could be a great offensive guy....blah blah blah.

it doesnt matter what i do, say, or wish. our gm will do what he thinks can work. we have to trust ken in his decisions just like we trust pavel with the puck.

we have a great GM running the wings...he may be controvercial with some decisions ( see: cleary) but we dont know the locker room/office/payroll/personalitys, like he does.

all i know is...we have never tanked a season to get the #1 draft pick. there is honor in life and being a wings fan, i hold that one in my pocket. ( im looking at you chicago/pittsburgh) thats my idea of a team buying the cup. (personally i think the first team out of playoffs gets #1 pick.= no more tanked seasons) EVER.

finally...my overall opinion is that, dont trade the kids unless its almost a sure thing, boyle might be ok, niskanen might be great, kesler is a cancer, stasny would be epic. monster is good by me, ciao sammy, gonna miss you bert, cleary who?, quincey/kindl...well...you coulda shoulda woulda. and last but not least... prepare for mantha!

The draft lottery makes it a tad better but ucant have playoff teams with top picks. That's how the rich get richer. Parody is a good thing in sports. Look at the playoffs this year other then the wings series pretty much every series was absolutely awesome to watch.

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Now let me be clear about somethings. I am not a Boyle hater. he has had a nice long career. What I am is a guy that loves to win SC's! To me that is the true measuring stick. Not just making it to the PO's. Which would you guys rather have? make it to the playoffs for 5 straight years and no SC's, OR making it to the PO's 3 out of 5 years and 1 SC? Again, the later is what I prefer.

Now prospects. Most that want to sign Boyle are saying "sign him to allow the prospects to develop". That is all fine and dandy, but you are forgeting 2 very important things. 1. History shows only 1 out 5 guys ever make it to the NHL. So out of the Oullett, Sproul, Marchenko, jensen group, we might have 1 good/great NHL player someday. 2. This might even be more important. History shows that forever whatever reasons, Dmen take longer to develop. Look at our current BL. It didn't click for Ericsson untill 2 years ago when he was 28. Kindl is 26 and it still hasn't clicked. Smith turns 25 this summer and he is still trying to make it. Now there are always exemptions to every rule. maybe one of our young prospects is it. But history says that it will be 4-6 more years for anyone of the Oullett, Sproul, Marchenko, jensen group makes it.

Now what does this mean? Well, the 4 guys we are talking about are not guys to step in today. A better way to look at that group is, those guys are potential replacements for Kronwall and Ericsson down the road. The problem is, they only have 2 more years that they can go down to GR and play. In the meantime, there are-to use a Datsyuk paraphrase: "no new stars" being added to the blueline from the minors anytime soon.

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I would like Boyle for a year or two, but not for a 4th/5th round pick. Also, he may want a longer contract than the Wings could/should offer.

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The Wings aren't in a position to need a small piece. Adding Boyle and Penner or another lower level free agent forward won't make them that much better. Moulson or Vanek plus a higher level D wound't get them over the hump either. At this point, regardless of where Zetterberg and Datsyuk are in their careers, the only two good options are either using the youth to trade for 2 top flight players, better than the guys in free agency, or letting the young guys develop. That includes Kindl and Lashoff staying, starting the year witha rookie on the 3rd pair, and giving Smith an extended shot at a top 4 role, and using Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, and Jurco a scoring line players along with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Weiss, and one other guy to fill out the top 3 lines. Then roll out a checking line of Miller-Helm-Abdelkader, or use Helm or Abdelkader on the 3rd line and plug Glendening or Andersson into the 4th line.

Edited by DickieDunn
wings4thecup06, number9 and ahkmed like this

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I just don't think there are many trade options out there that meet the criteria of getting a high quality, top 4 defender without overpaying for him.

I doubt there are many. But maybe there are. If you think about it, why wouldn't there be? There are a number of top-four defensemen, and few are truly untouchable, and every team has needs, and those needs won't all be solved through free agency. (You don't think the Coyotes would considering move Yandle for a scoring forward?) Solution: the GMs can put on their big boy pants and stop this "Well, no one ever trades a top-four defenseman these days (except when someone does)" self-fulfilling prophecy.

I imagine what this probably comes down to is, I sit here and think Tatar + Smith + a second-round pick in next year's draft is a pretty good deal for Keith Yandle - but Kenny doesn't want a pretty good deal. Kenny wants a Realgud deal. Which is fair enough, I guess. Except, if true, it means we're never going to make a big trade.

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I doubt there are many. But maybe there are. If you think about it, why wouldn't there be? There are a number of top-four defensemen, and few are truly untouchable, and every team has needs, and those needs won't all be solved through free agency. (You don't think the Coyotes would considering move Yandle for a scoring forward?) Solution: the GMs can put on their big boy pants and stop this "Well, no one ever trades a top-four defenseman these days (except when someone does)" self-fulfilling prophecy.

I imagine what this probably comes down to is, I sit here and think Tatar + Smith + a second-round pick in next year's draft is a pretty good deal for Keith Yandle - but Kenny doesn't want a pretty good deal. Kenny wants a Realgud deal. Which is fair enough, I guess. Except, if true, it means we're never going to make a big trade.

The Yotes could do so much better than that for Yandle. You can bet they are going to at least ask for Nyquist - a first + some B level prospect (Jurco..)

Yandle is a fantastic player and trust me team USA would have been much better with him in the lineup.

Edited by frankgrimes

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Yandle is great offensively, not so much defensively. If the Wings are going to give up the prospects to get him, they need to get someone better.

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Yandle is great offensively, not so much defensively. If the Wings are going to give up the prospects to get him, they need to get someone better.

He's not as bad defensively as people make him out to be. But regardless, if you paired him with Ericsson as the 2nd pair and Kronwall and Dekeyser as your shutdown pair you'd be fine defensively and MASSIVELY better offensively. The difference he'd make on our powerplay alone would be worth the cost.

But there are other options too. I don't want to make it seem like it's Yandle or bust.

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The draft lottery makes it a tad better but ucant have playoff teams with top picks. That's how the rich get richer. Parody is a good thing in sports. Look at the playoffs this year other then the wings series pretty much every series was absolutely awesome to watch.

i agree...parody make things better...but the draft idea i have in my head is #17 to #30 then #16 to #1 the playoff teams dont change seeding for draft.

this rewards trying to get in with a potential over the top player and a kick back for no revenue for postseason action.

no team would ever tank to get #1 last week of the year (unless someone would tank the last playoff spot)...and the bottom feeders would have to be smarter with their draft choices. (see zett-dats-nyquist etc.) wings have done pretty good without #1-10 they can too. :lol:

if buffalo plays florida last game of year for last place...the difference is one pick earlier if you win. 8th-9th choice

this year washington would have first overall...phoenix then nashville. i personally think this would be revolutionary in sports.

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Hey luvmnger, I wish I could "like" that post multiple times. Well said. I don't necessarily agree with every single little detail but definitely agree with the overall idea there.

thanks kr...i hear ya..everyone has their own take on things, its why we are all here.

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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/09/report-very-slim-to-no-chance-boyle-signs-with-isles/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

According to this, Boyle signing with the Islanders is unlikely. It says to expect him to go to a contender, and ask for a two year contract. If true, I don't see him wanting to come here (as far as "contenders" there are plenty of other teams who can offer more), and I don't know if Holland would bite on a two year deal after the mess that Sammuelson and Tootoo's contracts turned into.

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http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/09/report-very-slim-to-no-chance-boyle-signs-with-isles/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

According to this, Boyle signing with the Islanders is unlikely. It says to expect him to go to a contender, and ask for a two year contract. If true, I don't see him wanting to come here (as far as "contenders" there are plenty of other teams who can offer more), and I don't know if Holland would bite on a two year deal after the mess that Sammuelson and Tootoo's contracts turned into.

Holland should bite on a two year deal. It's ideal.

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I would be ok with Boyle for two years...as long as Holland had another, better D man in mind to acquire as well AND gets better in the top 6.

Edited by LeftWinger

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They won't have a rookie as the reserve. It would be stupid to have a kid who could be playing major minutes in Grand Rapids sitting in the press box on a regular basis. you see that from a bottom feeder occasionally, but Detroit won't do it. Lashoff will be kept as the #7. Kindl and Lashoff together wouldn't come close to bringing a second rounder anyway. Maybe a 4th.

They won't?? What was Lashoff then?

Reality is, we have too many prospects. Some will be traded

So where do our highly touted defensive prospects go?

Realistically only one prospect makes it.

Kronwall-Ericsson

New guy-Smith

DeKeyser-Prospect

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