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Datsyukian-Deke

Red Wings Target Mike Green

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cleary... if only we still had emdog.. lol seriously though, I would be ok with trading tatar, it would be fair and make both teams better

You'd move Tatar for a rental player who'll give you less than 50 pts.? Would you have moved him for Legwand last year? At least that rental gives your over 50 pts.

How is moving a guy who scored 19 goals and 39 pts. as a rookie for a rental with injury problems a fair value?

I am going to say it again. I would much rather include Tatar over Pulkkinen in any trade. Tatar has much more value in a trade right now and I think Pulkkinen, if he reaches his potential, would have more value to us in the future.

That's fine, but given that Tatar has "more value" don't you think you should ask for something worth that value?

As I said before, if Iginla went for a 1st and two guys who never played regularly in the NHL, what do you think a guy who just had a better rookie season that Datsyuk would bring in return? If your best answer is Mike Green you have incredibly low standards.

You don't have to keep Tatar, but don't give the ******* guy away for a 2nd pairing d-man with injury problems.

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You'd move Tatar for a rental player who'll give you less than 50 pts.? Would you have moved him for Legwand last year? At least that rental gives your over 50 pts.

How is moving a guy who scored 19 goals and 39 pts. as a rookie for a rental with injury problems a fair value?

That's fine, but given that Tatar has "more value" don't you think you should ask for something worth that value?

As I said before, if Iginla went for a 1st and two guys who never played regularly in the NHL, what do you think a guy who just had a better rookie season that Datsyuk would bring in return? If your best answer is Mike Green you have incredibly low standards.

You don't have to keep Tatar, but don't give thef****** guy away for a 2nd pairing d-man with injury problems.

a 56 point season followed by two 70+ point seasons, one which he scored 31 goals, and yes he has had some injury issues since, but from everything i've seen/read he is healthy now and probably wants to prove he is still elite. yes I would trade tatar, first off as you mentioned green will get you MORE points as a rh DEFENSEMAN than Tatar will as a forward. He IS what we need on the back end, and if thatis what it will take, then so be it. You cant expect to trade 4th liners for a top 2 dman. Sorry but that is ridiculous, and Green is worth the gamble.

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How about Helm and Kindl straight up? Sign Morris, have two RH d-men, waive Lashoff, #kfq is your 7th guy...

Kronwall - Green

Smith - Dekeyser

Ericsson - Morris

#kfq

Danielsm likes this

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a 56 point season followed by two 70+ point seasons, one which he scored 31 goals, and yes he has had some injury issues since, but from everything i've seen/read he is healthy now and probably wants to prove he is still elite. yes I would trade tatar, first off as you mentioned green will get you MORE points as a rh DEFENSEMAN than Tatar will as a forward. He IS what we need on the back end, and if thatis what it will take, then so be it. You cant expect to trade 4th liners for a top 2 dman. Sorry but that is ridiculous, and Green is worth the gamble.

Green is much more of a gamble than Tatar at this point. Is rather not move Tats and multiple other pieces for Green.

krsmith17 likes this

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also iginla was much older, and no longer in his prime... so that is not a good comparison at all, also a forward no dman. try comparing apples to apples, instead of apples to car parts


This team needs a shake up, it has become to complacent. Too many guys think they are "untouchable" and have been lackluster, for the most part. this is exactly the type of move we need to make, we can replace Tatars points, we have enough top 6 potential in GR that one or two guys easily could replicate what we lose in tatar, I love Tatar, but I like Nyquist more.

plopster likes this

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Relax Kip, if you go back and re-read everything I've said about Green, I've said several times that I wouldn't part with any of our top players or prospects, including Tatar. There is no way Green on an expiring contract is worth that. I just stated to the people that would be offering up Pulkkinen, I would think twice about trading him away...

DatsyukianDekes likes this

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Relax Kip, if you go back and re-read everything I've said about Green, I've said several times that I wouldn't part with any of our top players or prospects, including Tatar. There is no way Green on an expiring contract is worth that. I just stated to the people that would be offering up Pulkkinen, I would think twice about trading him away...

I think he was talking to me. I was the one saying I would be willing to move Tatar for Green

maybe not, he did quote you lol

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Yeah, I said I would rather include Tatar over Pulkkinen in "any" trade and I guess he took it as I would include Tatar in a trade for Green, which I wouldn't by the way, unless we already worked out an extension and it was significantly lower than his current $6+ million...

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fair point on our defense not knowing how to play defense, green would look at lot better if we didnt have quincey and kindl and 2 shutdown guys

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ugh mike green SUCKS

Hes injury prone and can't play a lick of defence for his life. Hes better than Kindl but for the cost of 6M and a Holland style trade it is just not worth it in the least.

WAS has too many defenceman thats why green is on the market. They won't want Kindl or any of our other 5 fringe-NHL defenceman in return, they are going to go after our forward prospects.

Already frustrated at the fact that this will probably happen:

Tatar + 1st + Pulkinnen

But knowing Holland I'm sure he could pull off something worse

Regarding his offence:

Whens the last time a player came to Detroit having previously put up solid offensive numbers and then continued that production? Hossa comes to mind, but before that? nobody.

Edited by WingsallTheway

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How about Helm and Kindl straight up? Sign Morris, have two RH d-men, waive Lashoff, #kfq is your 7th guy...

Kronwall - Green

Smith - Dekeyser

Ericsson - Morris

#kfq

I know he's had injury issues, but you don't trade a player like Helm unless you're getting a really, really good return.

DatsyukianDekes likes this

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To answer both of you...

1. The Legwand trade should have shown everyone the danger of trading good talent for expiring contracts. And free agency just showed us that lots of NHL players would rather not sign here. So it would be stupid to trade a more valuable asset (Tatar) for a more questionable player (Green). There's a real good chance you lose a real good roster player for nothing.

2. Until Teemu Pulkkinen scores a single NHL point, there's absolutely no reason to assume that he's got more value to the team, or a higher ceiling, than the guy who just scored 19 goals and 39 pts. in his rookie year. There's also no reason to assume that Pulkkinen can replace his production. Assuming so would be dangerous, regardless of what your gut feelings are, or your eyeball tests, or anything else.

If you're going to trade Tatar, get good value for him, or keep him. He was one of the few bright spots that our team had a year ago and he's only going to improve off his rookie year. Trade him as part of a package for a top four defenseman under contract, or a top six forward under contract, or don't trade him.

Detroit # 1 Fan and Mitchmac33 like this

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The Wings didn't want to re-sign Legwand. It's not like he rejected them. We don't usually have a problem keeping UFA's once we have them.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

hillbillywingsfan likes this

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I obviously don't know for sure who is going to be better between the two small, skilled wingers but I without a doubt believe Pulkkinen will be the better player and the bigger need in a few years. Like, I've made clear many times, I really like Tatar and I would love to keep him, but if we are making a trade, to me, he is the most expendable forward. Yes, he just had a great rookie year, which should increase his value even more in a trade.

Pulkkinen has a better shot than any prospect we've had in a long time, probably ever, and we probably haven't had a weapon of a shot on our team since Brett Hull. I hate comparing prospects to retired greats, but you cannot deny the similarities in the two. They're both identical in size, 5'10, 195-200lbs. they both shoot right and have a cannon, hell, Pulk even goes down on one knee, when one-timing from the hash marks, the same way Hull did.

So isn't it obvious now that Pulkkinen will put up nearly 1400 points in the NHL the same way Hull did... :P

Seriously though, I really like this kids potential. :)

Son of a Wing likes this

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To answer both of you...

1. The Legwand trade should have shown everyone the danger of trading good talent for expiring contracts. And free agency just showed us that lots of NHL players would rather not sign here. So it would be stupid to trade a more valuable asset (Tatar) for a more questionable player (Green). There's a real good chance you lose a real good roster player for nothing.

2. Until Teemu Pulkkinen scores a single NHL point, there's absolutely no reason to assume that he's got more value to the team, or a higher ceiling, than the guy who just scored 19 goals and 39 pts. in his rookie year. There's also no reason to assume that Pulkkinen can replace his production. Assuming so would be dangerous, regardless of what your gut feelings are, or your eyeball tests, or anything else.

If you're going to trade Tatar, get good value for him, or keep him. He was one of the few bright spots that our team had a year ago and he's only going to improve off his rookie year. Trade him as part of a package for a top four defenseman under contract, or a top six forward under contract, or don't trade him.

Agree completely, well said.

Except, I would easily trade a Jarnkrok-level prospect for Green. Say.. Frk? Athanasiou? Nestrasil?

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I obviously don't know for sure who is going to be better between the two small, skilled wingers but I without a doubt believe Pulkkinen will be the better player and the bigger need in a few years. Like, I've made clear many times, I really like Tatar and I would love to keep him, but if we are making a trade, to me, he is the most expendable forward. Yes, he just had a great rookie year, which should increase his value even more in a trade.

Pulkkinen has a better shot than any prospect we've had in a long time, probably ever, and we probably haven't had a weapon of a shot on our team since Brett Hull. I hate comparing prospects to retired greats, but you cannot deny the similarities in the two. They're both identical in size, 5'10, 195-200lbs. they both shoot right and have a cannon, hell, Pulk even goes down on one knee, when one-timing from the hash marks, the same way Hull did.

So isn't it obvious now that Pulkkinen will put up nearly 1400 points in the NHL the same way Hull did... :P

Seriously though, I really like this kids potential. :)

I like his potential too. I like Tatar's goals even better. Until Pulkkinen scores some NHL goals I'm not assuming anything on potential.

krsmith17 likes this

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I'd say if mike green comes to Detroit he will never put up over 55 pts. Detroit is a two way team and won't want it's defensemen taking to much risk to get points. Look at Smith they moved him to forward to use his offensive skills and kronwall has had to be conservative since Stuart left

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That's fair, I guess. So I guess you would trade Mantha or Sproul because so far they're projections are based solely on potential? :P Kidding. I get what you're saying. Hopefully we can keep Tats and Pulk.

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I'd say if mike green comes to Detroit he will never put up over 55 pts. Detroit is a two way team and won't want it's defensemen taking to much risk to get points. Look at Smith they moved him to forward to use his offensive skills and kronwall has had to be conservative since Stuart left

Kronwall hit 49 this past season. I dont think 55 for Mike Green is out of the question considering his skillset.

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I agree Son of a Wing. I'm a huge fan of Athanasiou as well... Hell, there are very few prospects I would want to trade lol.

I know only one in like every three prospects turn out but I would be afraid we would trade the ones that turn out and keep the busts. Although that is one thing I think Holland has been great at. He very rarely gives up on prospects that turn out to be great and usually flips some of the prospects that he doesn't feel will work out for something in return.

Edited by krsmith17
Wingsfan72 likes this

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Why O Why does everyone think that the starting point for every single trade on earth is a high end prospect or roster player with upside? None of Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, or Mantha would go the other way in a trade for Green. Good god, just look at every other deadline deal for guys who aren't superstars. You ever see those kinds of roster players or prospects going the other way for a teams fourth defenseman?

Anaheim got ONE top prospect, a mid tier prospect, and a 1st for Bobby Ryan...and he was under (a very affordable) contract. Mike Green will DEFINITELY not cost us more than that.

Where do these relative values come from?

I completely agree Kip....I think the value of Green is drastically overstated. The guy is still young and if he is healthy, he can have a long career but honestly, people are acting like we are trying to acquire Drew Doughty here. It's obvious that the caps are going in a different direction with the signing of Niskinen and Orpik. Green is the odd guy out AND Washington is right up against the cap. As Ansar points out in his article, they need depth at forward and they need to clear some cap space to go that.....so in my mind, it's a salary dump for Washington so they can address their needs at forward. That works in Detroits favor. I think a 1st rounder and a moderate prospect will do it. Once they rid themselves of the 6 million they are paying for Green they can address their need with a forward.

If this is the case, I'm interested.....if they are talking Jurco, Gus or Tats....I'm not!

PS Franzen could go....and then the Caps can have the laziest line in hockey with Mule and OV!

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Kronwall hit 49 this past season. I dont think 55 for Mike Green is out of the question considering his skillset.

Ya, and babs wants an offensive rh defenseman, he's been quoted saying so several times. We played more defensively because we have no choice. Our dmen can't move the puck out. Like I said we had rafalski lidstrom Stuart and kronwall before. If we got a guy like green dekeyser could stay back and make up for his mistakes and green could make our transition game so much better and put up a lot of points in the process. We would have 2 great pp qb's and two very good offensive dmen, and I guarantee we instantly become a much much better team

krsmith17 likes this

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I completely agree Kip....I think the value of Green is drastically overstated. The guy is still young and if he is healthy, he can have a long career but honestly, people are acting like we are trying to acquire Drew Doughty here. It's obvious that the caps are going in a different direction with the signing of Niskinen and Orpik. Green is the odd guy out AND Washington is right up against the cap. As Ansar points out in his article, they need depth at forward and they need to clear some cap space to go that.....so in my mind, it's a salary dump for Washington so they can address their needs at forward. That works in Detroits favor. I think a 1st rounder and a moderate prospect will do it. Once they rid themselves of the 6 million they are paying for Green they can address their need with a forward.

If this is the case, I'm interested.....if they are talking Jurco, Gus or Tats....I'm not!

PS Franzen could go....and then the Caps can have the laziest line in hockey with Mule and OV!

I like keeping Tatar Nyquist and Mantha but I would really like red wings to hold on to their first rounders. Just so they can get some talent with a shorter development time so we can have a stacked roster in the next few years Edited by mvanpop

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