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Fedorov and Yzerman vs. Datsyuk and Zetterberg


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#1 DickieDunn

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:31 PM

Comparing stats directly is pointless because they played in different eras, so let's look at how they did against their peers, in terms of top 10 finishes in the league in goals, assists, points, All star game appearances, and then awards.

 

Player -Goals-Assists-points-ASG-Awards

Yzerman-6-5-6-9 Lindsay, Smythe, Selke, Masterson

Fedorov-1-1-2-6 Selke (2), Hart, Lindsay

Datsyuk-0-5-3-3 Byng (4) Selke (3)

Zetterberg 1-2-2-0 Smythe

 

 

Yzerman is the best center to ever wear the Winged Wheel, and if Howe hadn't been a Wing he'd be the best forward ever.

 

Fedorov didn't have a ton of top 10 finishes, but he was the Wings' #2 center for a lot of his time here when Yzerman was healthy, and his Hart season showed what he could do when given the ice time.  He was also one of, if not the best, defensive forwards in the game.  He gets a lot of crap for how he left and his hold out.

 

Datsyuk is a better passer and defender than Fedorov, but he's never been a big goal guy.

 

Zetterberg has changed his game from more of a scorer to a set up guy.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#2 Son of a Wing

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:46 PM

Boyd Devereaux and Jason Williams


"The leader must never close the gap between himself and the group. If he does, he is no longer what he must be. He must walk a tightrope between the consent he must win and the control he must exert."
Vince Lombardi
 
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#3 LeftWinger

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:05 PM

In all seriousness, this is no contest. Yzerman and Fedorov, hands down, all day long, all week long, all year long...etc...etc...

 

I love Pav and Z, but if Yzerman and Fedorov were able to play in this no obstruction era, I cannot imagine the points they would have put up. I believe Pav and Z would've done fine in 90's, but not as good as they do now and I believe nowhere near what Yzerman and Feds would do today...


Edited by LeftWinger, 26 August 2014 - 06:12 PM.

Bring Fedorov Home For A Day!

 

He Needs To Retire A Red Wing.

 

When Gordie Leaves Us, the NHL MUST Retire The #9.


#4 number9

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:18 PM

In all seriousness, this is no contest. Yzerman and Fedorov, hands down, all day long, all week long, all year long...etc...etc...

 

I love Pav and Z, but if Yzerman and Fedorov were able to play in this no obstruction era, I cannot imagine the points they would have put up. I believe Pav and Z would've done fine in 90's, but not as good as they do now and I believe nowhere near what Yzerman and Feds would do today...

 

What he said. This isn't a question IMO.

 

EDIT: Although having guys like Oates, Coffey, prime Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Murphy, Larionov, Robitaille, Shanahan, Hull, Kozlov, Fetisov, prime Holmstrom, Lapointe, Sheppard, Ciccarelli, Chelios, Fischer, among others, around for most of their good years, helps the Y Feds cause quite a bit. D and Z have never really had a HOF supporting crew.


Edited by number9, 26 August 2014 - 06:28 PM.


#5 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:27 PM

I agree with number9 and LeftWinger - no question Stevie Y and Feds. I agree that the supporting crew is something to consider.

 

Also, I'm going to play Captain obvious and point out that those comparison are not fully fair because Dats and Z aren't done yet. I could see a few more top 10 seasons for points or assists for both of those 2. maybe Dats wins a Selke or 2. Zetterberg could win a Messier... Not that that would make them equal, but it should be considered.



#6 F.Michael

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:38 PM

In all seriousness, this is no contest. Yzerman and Fedorov, hands down, all day long, all week long, all year long...etc...etc...

 

I love Pav and Z, but if Yzerman and Fedorov were able to play in this no obstruction era, I cannot imagine the points they would have put up. I believe Pav and Z would've done fine in 90's, but not as good as they do now and I believe nowhere near what Yzerman and Feds would do today...

Agreed.

 

I will say - Stevie & Feds had a much better supporting cast.



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#7 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:44 PM

This topic is kind of weird.  I've never thought of Yzerman and Fedorov as a duo.  Yzerman was already a star before Fedorov ever got to Detroit.  They're not the same age. They didn't really play on the same line that often in their careers.  They're just two great individual players who happened to play on the same team for over a decade.    

 

On the other hand, Datsyuk and Zetterberg came into the league around the same time, are about the same age, both Europeans and have played together on the same line many times.  I think of them as a duo more than Yzerman and Fedorov.  

 

 

Also, I'd like to add that the Wings' scoring was pretty balanced during the 90's.  If Fedorov was playing on a different team in his prime, I'm pretty confident he'd finish top 10 in scoring every year. Likely even higher than top 10.  


Agreed.

 

I will say - Stevie & Feds had a much better supporting cast.

 

Yeah, but Fedorov frequently played with Doug Brown, and Yzerman played with McCarty some from what I remember in 1997.  They didn't play on the same line during the Cup runs until 2002.  

 

The difference is, those guys always played with good players.  Datsyuk and Zetterberg used to play with good players, but don't anymore at this stage in their careers.  That's sad.


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#8 number9

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:06 PM

This topic is kind of weird.  I've never thought of Yzerman and Fedorov as a duo.  Yzerman was already a star before Fedorov ever got to Detroit.  They're not the same age. They didn't really play on the same line that often in their careers.  They're just two great individual players who happened to play on the same team for over a decade.    

 

On the other hand, Datsyuk and Zetterberg came into the league around the same time, are about the same age, both Europeans and have played together on the same line many times.  I think of them as a duo more than Yzerman and Fedorov.  

 

 

Also, I'd like to add that the Wings' scoring was pretty balanced during the 90's.  If Fedorov was playing on a different team in his prime, I'm pretty confident he'd finish top 10 in scoring every year. Likely even higher than top 10.  


 

Yeah, but Fedorov frequently played with Doug Brown, and Yzerman played with McCarty some from what I remember in 1997.  They didn't play on the same line during the Cup runs until 2002.  

 

The difference is, those guys always played with good players.  Datsyuk and Zetterberg used to play with good players, but don't anymore at this stage in their careers.  That's sad.

 

Not that I'm disagreeing, but Feds numbers significantly dipped when he left us.

 

In 02-03 he scored 83 pts in 80 games for us. In 03-04 he scored 65 pts in 80 games for AMD. Mind you he was 34 at the time, but Yzerman was still a point per game player for us at that age (though declined quickly after due to injury) and Dats and Z are doing better than Feds did at their ages.



#9 DickieDunn

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:14 PM

In all seriousness, this is no contest. Yzerman and Fedorov, hands down, all day long, all week long, all year long...etc...etc...

 

I love Pav and Z, but if Yzerman and Fedorov were able to play in this no obstruction era, I cannot imagine the points they would have put up. I believe Pav and Z would've done fine in 90's, but not as good as they do now and I believe nowhere near what Yzerman and Feds would do today...

 

Read the Holland re-signs thread, there's some question there.


I agree with number9 and LeftWinger - no question Stevie Y and Feds. I agree that the supporting crew is something to consider.

 

Also, I'm going to play Captain obvious and point out that those comparison are not fully fair because Dats and Z aren't done yet. I could see a few more top 10 seasons for points or assists for both of those 2. maybe Dats wins a Selke or 2. Zetterberg could win a Messier... Not that that would make them equal, but it should be considered.

 

At their age and with their injury histories, I don't see those kinds of numbers again.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#10 F.Michael

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:41 PM

This topic is kind of weird.  I've never thought of Yzerman and Fedorov as a duo.  Yzerman was already a star before Fedorov ever got to Detroit.  They're not the same age. They didn't really play on the same line that often in their careers.  They're just two great individual players who happened to play on the same team for over a decade.    

 

On the other hand, Datsyuk and Zetterberg came into the league around the same time, are about the same age, both Europeans and have played together on the same line many times.  I think of them as a duo more than Yzerman and Fedorov.  

 

 

Also, I'd like to add that the Wings' scoring was pretty balanced during the 90's.  If Fedorov was playing on a different team in his prime, I'm pretty confident he'd finish top 10 in scoring every year. Likely even higher than top 10.  


 

Yeah, but Fedorov frequently played with Doug Brown, and Yzerman played with McCarty some from what I remember in 1997.  They didn't play on the same line during the Cup runs until 2002.  

 

The difference is, those guys always played with good players.  Datsyuk and Zetterberg used to play with good players, but don't anymore at this stage in their careers.  That's sad.

What's worse...Feds/Brown or Dats/Abby?



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#11 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:41 PM

 

Not that I'm disagreeing, but Feds numbers significantly dipped when he left us.

 

In 02-03 he scored 83 pts in 80 games for us. In 03-04 he scored 65 pts in 80 games for AMD. Mind you he was 34 at the time, but Yzerman was still a point per game player for us at that age (though declined quickly after due to injury) and Dats and Z are doing better than Feds did at their ages.

 

I was talking about his prime as in mid to late 90's.  I know the numbers dropped off after he left Detroit.  


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#12 number9

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:43 PM

 

Read the Holland re-signs thread, there's some question there.


 

At their age and with their injury histories, I don't see those kinds of numbers again.

 

Both have done very well at their ages, I don't expect either to suddenly dip, maybe a few points off. Zberg is saying his back is the best it has been in a while and Dats is apparently healthy, but that's all I've heard. Injuries to both COULD happened again this season, but it's no sure thing. Only these last two seasons have both really had to deal with this problem.



#13 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:44 PM

What's worse...Feds/Brown or Dats/Abby?

 

Doug Brown was a better offensive player than Abdelkader.  Abdelkader may singlehandedly force Datsyuk to join the KHL.  


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#14 number9

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:45 PM

 

I was talking about his prime as in mid to late 90's.  I know the numbers dropped off after he left Detroit.  

 

Right, I merely wanted to bring up how Feds wasn't the same after the wings. I think it speaks to how good our team really was back then.



#15 number9

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:50 PM

When Abby scores 2 goals in game four of the SCF to sweep the series I'll side with my MSU man, till then it's Doug Brown FTW

 

EDIT: Forgot to quote F Michael, but yall know what I'm talking about


Edited by number9, 26 August 2014 - 09:51 PM.


#16 GMRwings1983

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:54 PM

 

Right, I merely wanted to bring up how Feds wasn't the same after the wings. I think it speaks to how good our team really was back then.

 

Or how offensively challenged the Ducks were when Sergei got there.  That roster wasn't exactly beaming with offensive stars.  He led that 2004 team in scoring.  And I don't even need to mention the Blue Jackets.  He was too old by that point to carry a team.  People will also say he wasn't hungry, but that's hard to measure.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 26 August 2014 - 09:54 PM.

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#17 number9

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:06 PM

 

Or how offensively challenged the Ducks were when Sergei got there.  That roster wasn't exactly beaming with offensive stars.  He led that 2004 team in scoring.  And I don't even need to mention the Blue Jackets.  He was too old by that point to carry a team.  People will also say he wasn't hungry, but that's hard to measure.  

 

It's all hard to measure. All I can say is he he played for 3 different teams after us + Russia and never put up the same numbers. I'm sure he wishes, as we do, that he had stayed here. What could've  been...



#18 wings4thecup06

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:47 AM

In all seriousness, this is no contest. Yzerman and Fedorov, hands down, all day long, all week long, all year long...etc...etc...

 

I love Pav and Z, but if Yzerman and Fedorov were able to play in this no obstruction era, I cannot imagine the points they would have put up. I believe Pav and Z would've done fine in 90's, but not as good as they do now and I believe nowhere near what Yzerman and Feds would do today...

 

I really do wonder how much better their numbers really would have been tbh. Not because of the quality of their line mates, but simply because the average standard of goalies across the board has increased dramatically in the last 10-15 years or so. For example, in 88-89, Yzerman's best offensive output, GAA league leader was Roy with a pedestrian 2.44. And outside of Pete Peters 2.31 in 82, that was the highest of the decade. In the 23 years from 1990-91 to last year, only 8 times has the league leader in GAA been above 2.00, 3 of which were above 2.30. Again in 1990-91 Belfour led the league in GAA with a 2.47 and SV% of .910. Today? The top 3 GAA leaders were all under 2.00, while SV% was led by Harding at .933 and Rask at .930. 

 

Now obviously, GAA isn't everything, but its just a snapshot. The butterfly style has by and large transformed the goalie and offence has decreased, even in the no obstruction era. Goalies are just so much better across the board today than they were 20-25 years ago. 

 

I agree though that if I had to choose, right now I'd pick Stevie and Feds over Pavel and Hank. 

 

 

Read the Holland re-signs thread, there's some question there.


 

At their age and with their injury histories, I don't see those kinds of numbers again.

 

Hank has averaged just over a point per game in the last 2 seasons, albeit with a bad back, which is now fixed. If he's feeling as good as he says he is, I don't see why an 80 point season is out of reach if he stays healthy the entire year. 


Edited by wings4thecup06, 27 August 2014 - 10:51 AM.

temp 1

 


#19 Euro_Twins

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:15 AM

 
I really do wonder how much better their numbers really would have been tbh. Not because of the quality of their line mates, but simply because the average standard of goalies across the board has increased dramatically in the last 10-15 years or so. For example, in 88-89, Yzerman's best offensive output, GAA league leader was Roy with a pedestrian 2.44. And outside of Pete Peters 2.31 in 82, that was the highest of the decade. In the 23 years from 1990-91 to last year, only 8 times has the league leader in GAA been above 2.00, 3 of which were above 2.30. Again in 1990-91 Belfour led the league in GAA with a 2.47 and SV% of .910. Today? The top 3 GAA leaders were all under 2.00, while SV% was led by Harding at .933 and Rask at .930. 
 
Now obviously, GAA isn't everything, but its just a snapshot. The butterfly style has by and large transformed the goalie and offence has decreased, even in the no obstruction era. Goalies are just so much better across the board today than they were 20-25 years ago. 
 
I agree though that if I had to choose, right now I'd pick Stevie and Feds over Pavel and Hank. 
 
 
Hank has averaged just over a point per game in the last 2 seasons, albeit with a bad back, which is now fixed. If he's feeling as good as he says he is, I don't see why an 80 point season is out of reach if he stays healthy the entire year. 


Using your arguments against you, the goalies stats are much better then they were then, so that makes d and z around the same level and Stevie and feds, cause they both put up big point totals while being very good defensively in a league where goalies let in much less goals.

#20 wings4thecup06

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:46 AM

Using your arguments against you, the goalies stats are much better then they were then, so that makes d and z around the same level and Stevie and feds, cause they both put up big point totals while being very good defensively in a league where goalies let in much less goals.

 

This is precisely why this argument is so difficult and why comparing players from different eras will always be incredibly hard. 


temp 1

 






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