Fedorov and Yzerman vs. Datsyuk and Zetterberg

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Comparing stats directly is pointless because they played in different eras, so let's look at how they did against their peers, in terms of top 10 finishes in the league in goals, assists, points, All star game appearances, and then awards.

Player -Goals-Assists-points-ASG-Awards

Yzerman-6-5-6-9 Lindsay, Smythe, Selke, Masterson

Fedorov-1-1-2-6 Selke (2), Hart, Lindsay

Datsyuk-0-5-3-3 Byng (4) Selke (3)

Zetterberg 1-2-2-0 Smythe

Yzerman is the best center to ever wear the Winged Wheel, and if Howe hadn't been a Wing he'd be the best forward ever.

Fedorov didn't have a ton of top 10 finishes, but he was the Wings' #2 center for a lot of his time here when Yzerman was healthy, and his Hart season showed what he could do when given the ice time. He was also one of, if not the best, defensive forwards in the game. He gets a lot of crap for how he left and his hold out.

Datsyuk is a better passer and defender than Fedorov, but he's never been a big goal guy.

Zetterberg has changed his game from more of a scorer to a set up guy.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Boyd Devereaux and Jason Williams

[LeftWinger 4,953]

In all seriousness, this is no contest. Yzerman and Fedorov, hands down, all day long, all week long, all year long...etc...etc...

I love Pav and Z, but if Yzerman and Fedorov were able to play in this no obstruction era, I cannot imagine the points they would have put up. I believe Pav and Z would've done fine in 90's, but not as good as they do now and I believe nowhere near what Yzerman and Feds would do today...

Edited August 26, 2014 by LeftWinger

[number9 3,297]

In all seriousness, this is no contest. Yzerman and Fedorov, hands down, all day long, all week long, all year long...etc...etc...

I love Pav and Z, but if Yzerman and Fedorov were able to play in this no obstruction era, I cannot imagine the points they would have put up. I believe Pav and Z would've done fine in 90's, but not as good as they do now and I believe nowhere near what Yzerman and Feds would do today...

What he said. This isn't a question IMO.

EDIT: Although having guys like Oates, Coffey, prime Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Murphy, Larionov, Robitaille, Shanahan, Hull, Kozlov, Fetisov, prime Holmstrom, Lapointe, Sheppard, Ciccarelli, Chelios, Fischer, among others, around for most of their good years, helps the Y Feds cause quite a bit. D and Z have never really had a HOF supporting crew.

Edited August 26, 2014 by number9

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

I agree with number9 and LeftWinger - no question Stevie Y and Feds. I agree that the supporting crew is something to consider.

Also, I'm going to play Captain obvious and point out that those comparison are not fully fair because Dats and Z aren't done yet. I could see a few more top 10 seasons for points or assists for both of those 2. maybe Dats wins a Selke or 2. Zetterberg could win a Messier... Not that that would make them equal, but it should be considered.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

This topic is kind of weird. I've never thought of Yzerman and Fedorov as a duo. Yzerman was already a star before Fedorov ever got to Detroit. They're not the same age. They didn't really play on the same line that often in their careers. They're just two great individual players who happened to play on the same team for over a decade.

On the other hand, Datsyuk and Zetterberg came into the league around the same time, are about the same age, both Europeans and have played together on the same line many times. I think of them as a duo more than Yzerman and Fedorov.

Also, I'd like to add that the Wings' scoring was pretty balanced during the 90's. If Fedorov was playing on a different team in his prime, I'm pretty confident he'd finish top 10 in scoring every year. Likely even higher than top 10.

Agreed.

I will say - Stevie & Feds had a much better supporting cast.

Yeah, but Fedorov frequently played with Doug Brown, and Yzerman played with McCarty some from what I remember in 1997. They didn't play on the same line during the Cup runs until 2002.

The difference is, those guys always played with good players. Datsyuk and Zetterberg used to play with good players, but don't anymore at this stage in their careers. That's sad.

[number9 3,297]

This topic is kind of weird. I've never thought of Yzerman and Fedorov as a duo. Yzerman was already a star before Fedorov ever got to Detroit. They're not the same age. They didn't really play on the same line that often in their careers. They're just two great individual players who happened to play on the same team for over a decade.

On the other hand, Datsyuk and Zetterberg came into the league around the same time, are about the same age, both Europeans and have played together on the same line many times. I think of them as a duo more than Yzerman and Fedorov.

Also, I'd like to add that the Wings' scoring was pretty balanced during the 90's. If Fedorov was playing on a different team in his prime, I'm pretty confident he'd finish top 10 in scoring every year. Likely even higher than top 10.

Yeah, but Fedorov frequently played with Doug Brown, and Yzerman played with McCarty some from what I remember in 1997. They didn't play on the same line during the Cup runs until 2002.

The difference is, those guys always played with good players. Datsyuk and Zetterberg used to play with good players, but don't anymore at this stage in their careers. That's sad.

Not that I'm disagreeing, but Feds numbers significantly dipped when he left us.

In 02-03 he scored 83 pts in 80 games for us. In 03-04 he scored 65 pts in 80 games for AMD. Mind you he was 34 at the time, but Yzerman was still a point per game player for us at that age (though declined quickly after due to injury) and Dats and Z are doing better than Feds did at their ages.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

In all seriousness, this is no contest. Yzerman and Fedorov, hands down, all day long, all week long, all year long...etc...etc...

I love Pav and Z, but if Yzerman and Fedorov were able to play in this no obstruction era, I cannot imagine the points they would have put up. I believe Pav and Z would've done fine in 90's, but not as good as they do now and I believe nowhere near what Yzerman and Feds would do today...

Read the Holland re-signs thread, there's some question there.

I agree with number9 and LeftWinger - no question Stevie Y and Feds. I agree that the supporting crew is something to consider.

Also, I'm going to play Captain obvious and point out that those comparison are not fully fair because Dats and Z aren't done yet. I could see a few more top 10 seasons for points or assists for both of those 2. maybe Dats wins a Selke or 2. Zetterberg could win a Messier... Not that that would make them equal, but it should be considered.

At their age and with their injury histories, I don't see those kinds of numbers again.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Not that I'm disagreeing, but Feds numbers significantly dipped when he left us.

In 02-03 he scored 83 pts in 80 games for us. In 03-04 he scored 65 pts in 80 games for AMD. Mind you he was 34 at the time, but Yzerman was still a point per game player for us at that age (though declined quickly after due to injury) and Dats and Z are doing better than Feds did at their ages.

I was talking about his prime as in mid to late 90's. I know the numbers dropped off after he left Detroit.

[number9 3,297]

Read the Holland re-signs thread, there's some question there.

At their age and with their injury histories, I don't see those kinds of numbers again.

Both have done very well at their ages, I don't expect either to suddenly dip, maybe a few points off. Zberg is saying his back is the best it has been in a while and Dats is apparently healthy, but that's all I've heard. Injuries to both COULD happened again this season, but it's no sure thing. Only these last two seasons have both really had to deal with this problem.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

What's worse...Feds/Brown or Dats/Abby?

Doug Brown was a better offensive player than Abdelkader. Abdelkader may singlehandedly force Datsyuk to join the KHL.

[number9 3,297]

I was talking about his prime as in mid to late 90's. I know the numbers dropped off after he left Detroit.

Right, I merely wanted to bring up how Feds wasn't the same after the wings. I think it speaks to how good our team really was back then.

[number9 3,297]

When Abby scores 2 goals in game four of the SCF to sweep the series I'll side with my MSU man, till then it's Doug Brown FTW

EDIT: Forgot to quote F Michael, but yall know what I'm talking about

Edited August 27, 2014 by number9

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Right, I merely wanted to bring up how Feds wasn't the same after the wings. I think it speaks to how good our team really was back then.

Or how offensively challenged the Ducks were when Sergei got there. That roster wasn't exactly beaming with offensive stars. He led that 2004 team in scoring. And I don't even need to mention the Blue Jackets. He was too old by that point to carry a team. People will also say he wasn't hungry, but that's hard to measure.

Edited August 27, 2014 by GMRwings1983

[number9 3,297]

Or how offensively challenged the Ducks were when Sergei got there. That roster wasn't exactly beaming with offensive stars. He led that 2004 team in scoring. And I don't even need to mention the Blue Jackets. He was too old by that point to carry a team. People will also say he wasn't hungry, but that's hard to measure.

It's all hard to measure. All I can say is he he played for 3 different teams after us + Russia and never put up the same numbers. I'm sure he wishes, as we do, that he had stayed here. What could've been...

[wings4thecup06 504]

In all seriousness, this is no contest. Yzerman and Fedorov, hands down, all day long, all week long, all year long...etc...etc...

I love Pav and Z, but if Yzerman and Fedorov were able to play in this no obstruction era, I cannot imagine the points they would have put up. I believe Pav and Z would've done fine in 90's, but not as good as they do now and I believe nowhere near what Yzerman and Feds would do today...

I really do wonder how much better their numbers really would have been tbh. Not because of the quality of their line mates, but simply because the average standard of goalies across the board has increased dramatically in the last 10-15 years or so. For example, in 88-89, Yzerman's best offensive output, GAA league leader was Roy with a pedestrian 2.44. And outside of Pete Peters 2.31 in 82, that was the highest of the decade. In the 23 years from 1990-91 to last year, only 8 times has the league leader in GAA been above 2.00, 3 of which were above 2.30. Again in 1990-91 Belfour led the league in GAA with a 2.47 and SV% of .910. Today? The top 3 GAA leaders were all under 2.00, while SV% was led by Harding at .933 and Rask at .930.

Now obviously, GAA isn't everything, but its just a snapshot. The butterfly style has by and large transformed the goalie and offence has decreased, even in the no obstruction era. Goalies are just so much better across the board today than they were 20-25 years ago.

I agree though that if I had to choose, right now I'd pick Stevie and Feds over Pavel and Hank.

Read the Holland re-signs thread, there's some question there.

At their age and with their injury histories, I don't see those kinds of numbers again.

Hank has averaged just over a point per game in the last 2 seasons, albeit with a bad back, which is now fixed. If he's feeling as good as he says he is, I don't see why an 80 point season is out of reach if he stays healthy the entire year.

Edited August 27, 2014 by wings4thecup06

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

I really do wonder how much better their numbers really would have been tbh. Not because of the quality of their line mates, but simply because the average standard of goalies across the board has increased dramatically in the last 10-15 years or so. For example, in 88-89, Yzerman's best offensive output, GAA league leader was Roy with a pedestrian 2.44. And outside of Pete Peters 2.31 in 82, that was the highest of the decade. In the 23 years from 1990-91 to last year, only 8 times has the league leader in GAA been above 2.00, 3 of which were above 2.30. Again in 1990-91 Belfour led the league in GAA with a 2.47 and SV% of .910. Today? The top 3 GAA leaders were all under 2.00, while SV% was led by Harding at .933 and Rask at .930.

Now obviously, GAA isn't everything, but its just a snapshot. The butterfly style has by and large transformed the goalie and offence has decreased, even in the no obstruction era. Goalies are just so much better across the board today than they were 20-25 years ago.

I agree though that if I had to choose, right now I'd pick Stevie and Feds over Pavel and Hank.

Hank has averaged just over a point per game in the last 2 seasons, albeit with a bad back, which is now fixed. If he's feeling as good as he says he is, I don't see why an 80 point season is out of reach if he stays healthy the entire year.

Using your arguments against you, the goalies stats are much better then they were then, so that makes d and z around the same level and Stevie and feds, cause they both put up big point totals while being very good defensively in a league where goalies let in much less goals.

[wings4thecup06 504]

Using your arguments against you, the goalies stats are much better then they were then, so that makes d and z around the same level and Stevie and feds, cause they both put up big point totals while being very good defensively in a league where goalies let in much less goals.

This is precisely why this argument is so difficult and why comparing players from different eras will always be incredibly hard.

[Uncle Danny 155]

Many people are pointing out differences between eras, line mates, etc, all of which is interesting for discussion. The question, though, is which pair would you take. For me that's #19 and #91 all day every day. No knock on the "kids," but I'd be hard pressed to find many duos I'd take above them on any roster, let alone the Wings.

(#66 and #68 come to mind... #99 and, well, anyone also)

[hooon 1,089]

It might be closer if it was Feds + Dats vs. Yzerman + Z.

Feds and Yzerman were two of the greatest all time (during their peak/prime years), and while Z and D were among the best of their generation, they still aren't quite in the realm of the former two.

[kliq 3,755]

Here is an interesting question......of the 3 remaining, which get their jersey's retired?

I'm guessing D and Z both do, while Fedorov does not.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Here is an interesting question......of the 3 remaining, which get their jersey's retired?

I'm guessing D and Z both do, while Fedorov does not.

As great as Fedorov was as a player the way he left burned that scenario.

Pasha and Z may have a borderline chance at best, because the bar is unbelievable high in Detroit. I think both will be honored in some way or form - maybe a ring of honor like Calgary has it - but numbers retired ? I don't think so

<< neither of the three

[number9 3,297]

13 and 40 in the rafters

[Guest DeGraa55]

Here is an interesting question......of the 3 remaining, which get their jersey's retired?

I'm guessing D and Z both do, while Fedorov does not.

None. Z and dat are not in the same catagory of Howe lids and yzerman.

[kliq 3,755]

None. Z and dat are not in the same catagory of Howe lids and yzerman.

I don't disagree that D & Z are not in that category, but I dont think to have your jersey retired you have to be at the level of Howe, Yzerman, or Lidstrom. Your talking about 3 guys that are 3 of the best players of all time.

Are they at the level, or close the level of Abel, Lindsay, or Delvecchio? This is the better question.