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kliq

Phil Kessel Traded to Penguins

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So it's silly so long as you don't agree with it, in which case you like it?

How much to you think Crosby is going to increase Kessel's goal scoring? Throw a number out there. Kessel's already about a 30-35 goal scorer. So what do you think Crosby's affect on Kessel translates into, in terms of goal production? Just spitball, I'm not expecting you to have a crystal ball or anything?

It was silly in the post i liked to. As I already stated, it was my agreement on the money the mentioned players would not get that I agreed with, hence the like. The fact you keep bringing it up furthers my point of you always having to be right.

If the chemistry is there, it isn't too far fetched to see Kessel score 40+. But there are way too many factors in hockey to even begin making predictions. We'll just have to wait and see. The only fact is that Crosby is an elite player capable of making those around him better. Which means he can very well make Kessel better. But maybe they simply won't click and he becomes Malkin's winger instead. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

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It was silly in the post i liked to. As I already stated, it was my agreement on the money the mentioned players would not get that I agreed with, hence the like. The fact you keep bringing it up furthers my point of you always having to be right.

If the chemistry is there, it isn't too far fetched to see Kessel score 40+. But there are way too many factors in hockey to even begin making predictions. We'll just have to wait and see. The only fact is that Crosby is an elite player capable of making those around him better. Which means he can very well make Kessel better. But maybe they simply won't click and he becomes Malkin's winger instead. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

So your position is that Crosby is elite, and might improve Kessel's play, but then again might not? Bold.

That being said, James Neal had career years with Crosby. He's not doing the same now without him.

I agree. I've addressed that above. Neal is a pure finisher. That's not what Kessel does. Kessel, like Patrick Kane, needs to carry the puck to be most effective. So putting him on a line with a guy who needs to carry the puck to be most effective, isn't a recipe for maximum offensive production. You hear all the time about guys who play well with the puck, vs. guys who play well without the puck. That is exactly the difference between Neal and Kessel.

I would ABSOLUTELY imagine Neal's production would increase on Crosby's wing, but not Kessel.

Edited by kipwinger

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So your position is that Crosby is elite, and might improve Kessel's play, but then again might not? Bold.

My position is that it's very likely he does make Kessel better, but that s*** happens and there is no such thing as a sure thing. Common sense, really. What is life like in your everything is a 100% sure thing fantasty land?

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My position is that it's very likely he does make Kessel better, but that s*** happens and there is no such thing as a sure thing. Common sense, really. What is life like in your everything is a 100% sure thing fantasty land?

So maybe he will, maybe he won't. No sure things in this life. Got it. Good talk.

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Crosby is one of the best players in the world, and certainly the best center Kunitz ever played with, and in only one, outlier, year did he significantly improve Kunitz' goal total. Every other year in Pittsburgh Kunitz has been exactly what he was emerging into in Anaheim, a mid 20s goal scorer.

Likewise, Pavel Datsyuk is by far the best center Hossa ever played with, and he made Hossa a 40 goal scorer...something that Hossa had done four times before ever playing with Datsyuk. Hell, he didn't even reach his goal scoring zenith with Datsyuk feeding him. At least you could argue that Crosby and Kunitz did that together (albeit an outlier). Hossa was a BETTER goal scorer without Datsyuk.

But I'll make it easier. I'll bet you $100 dollars, to a charity of your choice, if Crosby significantly improves Kessel's goal scoring (since that was the original point of debate). Since Kessel is already one of the best goal scorers in the league, and since Crosby is one of the best centers in the league, a "significant improvement" in Kessel's goal scoring should equate to him ending the season top three in goal scoring and/or scoring 50 goals.

Deal?

Kunitz didn't just have 1 outlier year. Wikipedia says that Kunitz has only been consistantly on the top line since 2010.

10-11: 23 Gs in 66 gp = 28 or 29 in a full season

11-12: The season that Crosby only played 20 something games

12-13: The lock-out shortened season: 22 goals in 48 games. That's 37 or 38 over a full season.

13-14: The big 35 goals

14-15: He broke his ankle this past season

That's all higher than his pre-Sid days. Kunitz isn't really the best comparison, though, because he spent some time with Getzlaf and Perry with the Ducks. That's a an upgrade on linemates, but not as big as going from Bozak to Crosby.

I agree that Hossa was a better goal scorer before playing with Datsyuk. He was more of a pure goal scorer and later rounded out his game. He's was also on some good lines on those earlier teams, though and that's what we are talking about here.

02-03 Senators: Team won the presidents trophy. Pretty good support staff: Alfie, Spezza, Havlat, Bonk, Chara, Redden (when he was great) Mike Fischer, Todd White (60 pts - why do I have no idea who this guy is?) Don't really know who he played with.

06-07 Thrashers: probably played with Kozlov (80 pt. season), maybe Kovalchuk (76 pts) though I think they were both RW.

I think you have to look at the immediate surrounding years and who they were playing with. I just thought it was funny that you chose 2 situations where players goal scoring did take a noticeable spike up.

I won't take the bet because I don't care all that much (about Kessel, not about charities, haha) and I'm a fairly broke musician. I do think there's a chance that it doesn't work between Kessel and Crosby since Crosby doesn't readily have chemistry with everyone (think olympics, fired coach). In that case K will play with Malkin and his totals will still go up. I'm hoping that he blows up with Crosby so that Leaf fans will be tortured for years to come.

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Kunitz didn't just have 1 outlier year. Wikipedia says that Kunitz has only been consistantly on the top line since 2010.

10-11: 23 Gs in 66 gp = 28 or 29 in a full season

11-12: The season that Crosby only played 20 something games

12-13: The lock-out shortened season: 22 goals in 48 games. That's 37 or 38 over a full season.

13-14: The big 35 goals

14-15: He broke his ankle this past season

That's all higher than his pre-Sid days. Kunitz isn't really the best comparison, though, because he spent some time with Getzlaf and Perry with the Ducks. That's a an upgrade on linemates, but not as big as going from Bozak to Crosby.

I agree that Hossa was a better goal scorer before playing with Datsyuk. He was more of a pure goal scorer and later rounded out his game. He's was also on some good lines on those earlier teams, though and that's what we are talking about here.

02-03 Senators: Team won the presidents trophy. Pretty good support staff: Alfie, Spezza, Havlat, Bonk, Chara, Redden (when he was great) Mike Fischer, Todd White (60 pts - why do I have no idea who this guy is?) Don't really know who he played with.

06-07 Thrashers: probably played with Kozlov (80 pt. season), maybe Kovalchuk (76 pts) though I think they were both RW.

I think you have to look at the immediate surrounding years and who they were playing with. I just thought it was funny that you chose 2 situations where players goal scoring did take a noticeable spike up.

I won't take the bet because I don't care all that much (about Kessel, not about charities, haha) and I'm a fairly broke musician. I do think there's a chance that it doesn't work between Kessel and Crosby since Crosby doesn't readily have chemistry with everyone (think olympics, fired coach). In that case K will play with Malkin and his totals will still go up. I'm hoping that he blows up with Crosby so that Leaf fans will be tortured for years to come.

I picked those two situations not to say that it ALWAYS HAPPENS that way, but because I think it will happen that way in this instance. Crosby, or Datsyuk, or Toews, or whomever isn't some magic recipe for more goals. Sometimes, if their styles aren't complimentary, a player's goal production will not shoot up drastically...despite playing with better players. I've stated several times now why I think that would be the case with Kessel and Crosby (or Malkin). I'm not trying to denigrate any of those player, they're all really good. But sticking two really good players together doesn't necessarily make two really, super duper, great players. Sometimes it makes them no better, and sometimes worse. IMO this is what will happen with Kessel in Pittsburgh.

I do, however, completely agree with the last part. Nothing would satisfy me more than to see Kessel fill the Stanley Cup with Leafs fans' tears.

Side note: Jonathan Toews would make Kessel's number jump up more than Crosby's or Malkin's. Just by way of comparison.

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Those are all powerplay clips. He could have played just with Malkin at full strength together. That still would accountant for higher number than him currently playing with Ribeiro.

But, yes, playing on the powerplay with Crosby and Malkin definitely helped his numbers also.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Man I just looked at their prospect pool it's seems a bit...empty Pittsburgh is really going for it while Malkin and Crosby are still in their primes. Doesn't surprise me at all that Lemieux wants to sell soon he knows the future isn't bright.

But man the Toronto Media just can't write a simple thank you Kessel good luck in Pittsburgh, no they've to bring up that he was ackward no he wasn't, he just doesn't like to talk to idiots like Feschuk, Simmons and all the others. Which is completely understandable I easily see him as a 40 + goalscorer now, Crosby will gift him the puck and he will use his unreal wristshot to finish it

Edited by frankgrimes

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Man I just looked at their prospect pool it's seems a bit...empty Pittsburgh is really going for it while Malkin and Crosby are still in their primes. Doesn't surprise me at all that Lemieux wants to sell soon he knows the future isn't bright.

But man the Toronto Media just can't write a simple thank you Kessel good luck in Pittsburgh, no they've to bring up that he was ackward no he wasn't, he just doesn't like to talk to idiots like Feschuk, Simmons and all the others. Which is completely understandable I easily see him as a 40 + goalscorer now, Crosby will gift him the puck and he will use his unreal wristshot to finish it

Getting out of Toronto was the best thing he's ever done.

I feel that same negative spotlight will be on Babs when Toronto doesn't make the finals next year or wins the cup the year after. But he knew what he was getting into when he went to Toronto.

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Getting out of Toronto was the best thing he's ever done.

I feel that same negative spotlight will be on Babs when Toronto doesn't make the finals next year or wins the cup the year after. But he knew what he was getting into when he went to Toronto.

I think they'll cut him some slack the Leafs are rebuilding and if they try it good luck..Babs is going to tear them apart just like he did with that buffalo reporter lol

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Kipwinger...you're wrong about Crosby's impact on Kunitz. If you check the numbers, his goal scoring is 33% higher with Crosby than it is without. If that isn't significant, I'm not sure what is. Anything over 10% i'd consider significant. Dupuis is 28% better with Crosby than without (points wise it's 45%)

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Kipwinger...you're wrong about Crosby's impact on Kunitz. If you check the numbers, his goal scoring is 33% higher with Crosby than it is without. If that isn't significant, I'm not sure what is. Anything over 10% i'd consider significant. Dupuis is 28% better with Crosby than without (points wise it's 45%)

I'll bet you 100 pesos that kipwinger is right.

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Wiggidy wiggidy whack. Phil's gonna eat Sid's snack.

I missed an "n" the first time I read it, LOL. What would Pierre and Edzo say? (cue Jim Ross "Oh, the horror!")

Edited by TheXym

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