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LeonardSankar

Where Are The Point Getters?

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You are wrong about Frk. He's fast. Not Larkin fast, but definitely Glendening fast. And he's getting bigger and stronger. He's 200 lbs now. Will be 205 next year, which is where we need our other Euro softy trio to be.

Cory Emerton was fast. Look where that landed him.

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Bottom line is we have nothing in our so called great system that's gonna take us to the next level e.g. the level of excellence where they used to be pre 2009 Stanley Cup finals. This is getting frustrating as we can't bring in the help like they did in 2001 b/c of the cap and our prospects are just decent at best. Aside from Larkin there is no hope anymore!

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Bottom line is we have nothing in our so called great system that's gonna take us to the next level e.g. the level of excellence where they used to be pre 2009 Stanley Cup finals. This is getting frustrating as we can't bring in the help like they did in 2001 b/c of the cap and our prospects are just decent at best. Aside from Larkin there is no hope anymore!

Svetch and AA will be future centers with Larkin. They're good.

Edited by kickazz

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Bottom line is we have nothing in our so called great system that's gonna take us to the next level e.g. the level of excellence where they used to be pre 2009 Stanley Cup finals. This is getting frustrating as we can't bring in the help like they did in 2001 b/c of the cap and our prospects are just decent at best. Aside from Larkin there is no hope anymore!

Who knows though - these guys are still so young. Larkin, Mantha, Anthanasiou, are all 21 or under... Throw in our teenagers like Svechnikov, Saarijarvi or our 1st round pick this year and ask yourself can any of these guys be superstars in 4/5 years (when they will all be 25 or younger)? Such a long time from now, it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility.

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I think they really need to get someone else who can play on a line with Dats and Z, if even for the very least to motivate Abdelkader. He’s pretty much being handed that position on a platter lately, and hasn’t done much to deserve it. Also I'm with those that say Nyqvist/Tatar have no chemistry together for whatever reason.

Z-D-AA

Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco

Nyqvist-Larkin-Abdelkader

Helm-Glendenning-Richards/Pulkinnen

I don't think Richards has been BAD. However, think he could produce more come playoff time, and don't really care if he is in the lineup at this point.

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That's why relying solely on the draft to build a team is silly. If yor first batch doesn't work you have to wait and see anther 5-10 years to see if the next one works and so on.

We need a balanced draft-trade ratio to build a top team.

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I dunno why people complain about Richards. He's obv not his former self, but he came into this season coming off a 37 point regular season and 14 point playoff on the way to a cup. That's worth $3 million in the league these days easy. And he's only signed for one year. He's on pace for another 35-40 point season now, and he's been scratched a few games. He's doing fine.

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Team	Pos	Games	G	A	P	G/G	P/G
WSH	Top 3	169	74	97	171	0.438	1.012
CHI	Top 3	183	78	106	184	0.426	1.005
DAL	Top 3	183	80	99	179	0.437	0.978
LAK	Top 3	171	56	79	135	0.327	0.789
STL	Top 3	183	61	73	134	0.333	0.732
TBL	Top 3	177	60	66	126	0.339	0.712
NYR	Top 3	179	59	66	125	0.330	0.698
FLA	Top 3	174	42	81	123	0.241	0.707
DET	Top 3	166	43	72	115	0.259	0.693
Average		176.11	61.44	82.11	143.56	0.348	0.814
FLA	Next 3	161	52	55	107	0.323	0.665
WSH	Next 3	166	50	61	111	0.301	0.669
DAL	Next 3	177	43	50	93	0.243	0.525
DET	Next 3	182	44	53	97	0.242	0.533
NYR	Next 3	153	36	55	91	0.235	0.595
CHI	Next 3	177	39	53	92	0.220	0.520
LAK	Next 3	174	30	53	83	0.172	0.477
STL	Next 3	162	27	55	82	0.167	0.506
TBL	Next 3	165	26	52	78	0.158	0.473
Average		168.56	38.56	54.11	92.67	0.229	0.551
TBL	Depth	336	47	63	110	0.140	0.327
WSH	Depth	336	44	64	108	0.131	0.321
FLA	Depth	305	41	49	90	0.134	0.295
DAL	Depth	367	46	65	111	0.125	0.302
NYR	Depth	368	46	63	109	0.125	0.296
DET	Depth	336	38	50	88	0.113	0.262
LAK	Depth	335	36	40	76	0.107	0.227
CHI	Depth	265	28	30	58	0.106	0.219
STL	Depth	346	31	37	68	0.090	0.197
Average		332.67	39.67	51.22	90.89	0.119	0.272
FLA	4-14	466	93	104	197	0.200	0.423
WSH	4-14	502	94	125	219	0.187	0.436
DAL	4-14	544	89	115	204	0.164	0.375
NYR	4-14	521	82	118	200	0.157	0.384
DET	4-14	518	82	103	185	0.158	0.357
TBL	4-14	501	73	115	188	0.146	0.375
CHI	4-14	442	67	83	150	0.152	0.339
LAK	4-14	509	66	93	159	0.130	0.312
STL	4-14	508	58	92	150	0.114	0.295
Average		501.22	78.22	105.33	183.56	0.156	0.366
DAL	Defense	350	28	108	136	0.080	0.389
CHI	Defense	318	27	94	121	0.085	0.381
LAK	Defense	334	33	91	124	0.099	0.371
NYR	Defense	354	28	92	120	0.079	0.339
STL	Defense	358	26	84	110	0.073	0.307
WSH	Defense	336	21	100	121	0.063	0.360
DET	Defense	337	23	71	94	0.068	0.279
TBL	Defense	370	26	77	103	0.070	0.278
FLA	Defense	338	21	62	83	0.062	0.246
Average		343.89	25.89	86.56	112.44	0.075	0.328

Comparison between us and the 8 teams with more points than us (as of last night). Limited to players with 15 or more games, so it's possible I missed someone, but I didn't want to skew the per game numbers. Top 3, Next 3, and Depth are forwards (1-3, 4-6, and 7-14 in points, respectively). 4-14 is Next 3 and Depth combined.

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This isn't a surprise and many of us have been talking about it for years. If you draft 20th every year in time you will have the 20th best talent. That is where we are heading. As of today we are 30-31. 30 wins, 20 loses and 11 OTL. We are sub .500. We lack F's that can plug up the crease and Dmen that can clear the crease. The worst part is Holland will not make trades. He has been on a plug and patch path for the last 5-6 years. Meanwhile we have lost HOF caliber players and not replaced them. Right now there are only 5 players in the entire organization that I wouldn't trade: Larkin, Dekeyser, Mrazek, Svechnikov (spelling) and Mantha. That is it. Everyone else could be moved in the right deal. Of course nothing will happen other than resigning more average players to long term deals instead of going after big fish.

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This isn't a surprise and many of us have been talking about it for years. If you draft 20th every year in time you will have the 20th best talent. That is where we are heading. As of today we are 30-31. 30 wins, 20 loses and 11 OTL. We are sub .500. We lack F's that can plug up the crease and Dmen that can clear the crease. The worst part is Holland will not make trades. He has been on a plug and patch path for the last 5-6 years. Meanwhile we have lost HOF caliber players and not replaced them. Right now there are only 5 players in the entire organization that I wouldn't trade: Larkin, Dekeyser, Mrazek, Svechnikov (spelling) and Mantha. That is it. Everyone else could be moved in the right deal. Of course nothing will happen other than resigning more average players to long term deals instead of going after big fish.

That has been my point for the last few years. We have not had a high draft pick for the last 20 some years; Larkin was #15, an exception this year and even so, this year there were many excellent picks that are better than Larkin starting with McDavid, Panarin, Domi, Eichel. In the past we were lucky to get excellent players in the 100 picks and down however now the other teams are also eyeing the Swedes and Russians so the likes of Dats, Z, Lidstrom and so many more are not there any longer. GR is loaded with with average players that have heart but are not going to save the Wings in the near future. We must hit the bottom before we become elites once more. But let's not forget that there are plenty of cities that envy us even now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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This isn't a surprise and many of us have been talking about it for years. If you draft 20th every year in time you will have the 20th best talent. That is where we are heading. As of today we are 30-31. 30 wins, 20 loses and 11 OTL. We are sub .500. We lack F's that can plug up the crease and Dmen that can clear the crease. The worst part is Holland will not make trades. He has been on a plug and patch path for the last 5-6 years. Meanwhile we have lost HOF caliber players and not replaced them. Right now there are only 5 players in the entire organization that I wouldn't trade: Larkin, Dekeyser, Mrazek, Svechnikov (spelling) and Mantha. That is it. Everyone else could be moved in the right deal. Of course nothing will happen other than resigning more average players to long term deals instead of going after big fish.

Please explain this to me. Better yet, explain it to Edmonton.

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Please explain this to me. Better yet, explain it to Edmonton.

Simple, their talent hasn't been developed. That is on the coaching and GM for not getting their very talented young players the help they need. There are reasons why every league does a reverse order draft-to create parity. Yes there are guys that over perform their draft postions just as their are guys that become busts. But the law of averages evens all of that out.

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Simple, their talent hasn't been developed. That is on the coaching and GM for not getting their very talented young players the help they need. There are reasons why every league does a reverse order draft-to create parity. Yes there are guys that over perform their draft postions just as their are guys that become busts. But the law of averages evens all of that out.

I would think by now the Wings have squashed this. Of course the higher you pick, the better chances of grabbing a stud, but how many guys do the Wings have to develop into stars from low picks for people to realize that having high picks isnt the only way to go. In the NFL, NE does the exact same thing, they trade away first rounders, and draft multiple times in the second round etc. If you draft and develop properly, you dont need high picks.

Ill use the 2008 draft as an example of how a high pick does not equal superstar:

Pick 1,2, and 4 are studs, but nobody else in the top 14 is one. Then you have Karlsson at 15, Eberle at 22, and Carlson at 27. 3 studs in the top half, 1 right in the middle, and 2 in the bottom half. Not to mention, now its even harder to be guaranteed the top pick with the lottery rule changes.

1 Steven Stamkos ©

2 Drew Doughty (D)

3 Zach Bogosian (D)

4 Alex Pietrangelo (D)

5 Luke Schenn (D)

6 Nikita Filatov (LW)

7 Colin Wilson ©

8 Mikkel Boedker (LW)

9 Josh Bailey ©

10 Cody Hodgson ©

11 Kyle Beach (LW)

12 Tyler Myers (D)

13 Colten Teubert (D)

14 Zach Boychuk ©

15 Erik Karlsson (D)

16 Joe Colborne (LW)

17 Jake Gardiner (D)

18 Chet Pickard (G)

19 Luca Sbisa (D)

20 Michael Del Zotto (D)

21 Anton Gustafsson ©

22 Jordan Eberle (RW)

23 Tyler Cuma (D) Canada

24 Mattias Tedenby (LW)

25 Greg Nemisz (RW)

26 Tyler Ennis (LW)

27 John Carlson (D)

28 Viktor Tikhonov (RW)

29 Daultan Leveille ©

30 Thomas McCollum (G)

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I would think by now the Wings have squashed this. Of course the higher you pick, the better chances of grabbing a stud, but how many guys do the Wings have to develop into stars from low picks for people to realize that having high picks isnt the only way to go. In the NFL, NE does the exact same thing, they trade away first rounders, and draft multiple times in the second round etc. If you draft and develop properly, you dont need high picks.

Ill use the 2008 draft as an example of how a high pick does not equal superstar:

Pick 1,2, and 4 are studs, but nobody else in the top 14 is one. Then you have Karlsson at 15, Eberle at 22, and Carlson at 27. 3 studs in the top half, 1 right in the middle, and 2 in the bottom half. Not to mention, now its even harder to be guaranteed the top pick with the lottery rule changes.

1 Steven Stamkos ©

2 Drew Doughty (D)

3 Zach Bogosian (D)

4 Alex Pietrangelo (D)

5 Luke Schenn (D)

6 Nikita Filatov (LW)

7 Colin Wilson ©

8 Mikkel Boedker (LW)

9 Josh Bailey ©

10 Cody Hodgson ©

11 Kyle Beach (LW)

12 Tyler Myers (D)

13 Colten Teubert (D)

14 Zach Boychuk ©

15 Erik Karlsson (D)

16 Joe Colborne (LW)

17 Jake Gardiner (D)

18 Chet Pickard (G)

19 Luca Sbisa (D)

20 Michael Del Zotto (D)

21 Anton Gustafsson ©

22 Jordan Eberle (RW)

23 Tyler Cuma (D) Canada

24 Mattias Tedenby (LW)

25 Greg Nemisz (RW)

26 Tyler Ennis (LW)

27 John Carlson (D)

28 Viktor Tikhonov (RW)

29 Daultan Leveille ©

30 Thomas McCollum (G)

Law of averages dude..

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Law of averages dude..

Exactly my point. All these kids are good, but some are going to be busts, some are going to be studs,and some are going to be alright. It really is law of averages. This goes back to my original point that the most important part of draft isn't "draft order", it is development of the prospects that you draft.

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You're more likely to get an elite player in the first 5 picks than anywhere else, especially a forward.

I don't think anyone is disputing that there is a higher probability to pick an elite player the higher you pick. My point is that its not a guarantee and that development is more important then simply having high picks.

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I don't think anyone is disputing that there is a higher probability to pick an elite player the higher you pick. My point is that its not a guarantee and that development is more important then simply having high picks.

Development is important, but you're not going to develop Corey Emmerton into Jonathan Tavares no matter how well your organization takes care of the prospects. To get a player like that you need to either draft high or get lucky and have a player exceed expectations. There's a reason most of the Cup winners the last 25 years were built around guys who were top 5 picks.

Edited by DickieDunn

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Development is important, but you're not going to develop Corey Emmerton into Jonathan Tavares no matter how well your organization takes care of the prospects. To get a player like that you need to either draft high or get lucky and have a player exceed expectations. There's a reason most of the Cup winners the last 25 years were built around guys who were top 5 picks.

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Development is important, but you're not going to develop Corey Emmerton into Jonathan Tavares no matter how well your organization takes care of the prospects. To get a player like that you need to either draft high or get lucky and have a player exceed expectations. There's a reason most of the Cup winners the last 25 years were built around guys who were top 5 picks.

An Emmerton reference....interesting lol.

If you take two extreme's after the fact, yes that looks silly but that can go both ways. In 1998 Datsyuk was taken 171st overall, David Legwand was taken second overall. Does this mean it is better to pick lower? Of course not. The higher you pick the increased probability you have in drafting a star, but a star can be found anywhere in the draft if you scout well and you develop properly.

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Detroit got lucky with Datsyuk. Nobody believed he'd be close to this good, not even the scouts. He was projected as a potential second line center, iirc his biggest issues were strength and skating. He worked hard and improved both and turned out to be a star. He could have jast as easily never seen a second of ice te in North America.

The other difference between them and now is that teams are all scouting Europe a lot heavier and guys like that are being taken earlier.

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The Wings have always had balanced scoring. Even during the late 90's and 2000's when this team was actually good. We haven't typically seen our guys finish high in the league leaders category.

That's mostly because Bowman and Babcock were very defensive minded coaches who wanted their star players to play on both ends of the ice. If allowed to float I'm sure a lot of our top players would have had higher scoring rates

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