Red Wings Expansion Draft Protected List

[Bump 20]

Holland should be begging someone to take the Abdelkader and Nielsen contracts off Wings' salary cap.

Sheahan had a miserable year but still has promise.

ETA: I just looked up the rules on the protection list and players with a NTC or No Movement Clause must be protected. Abdelkader and Nielsen has NTCs.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Bump
New info.

[kipwinger 8,756]

Only thing I would have done differently is protect Sheahan over Abby. 

Interesting looking at other teams' lists though.  Lots of good defensemen are unprotected.  Holland may have missed the boat a bit. I'd have given long looks at Calvin De Haan and Matt Dumba. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

Is Mrazek clearly the best player on our list, though? Ouellet's a serviceable second-pairing defenseman. Sheahan's a serviceable 3C. Helm's a good 3C. Mrazek hasn't established himself as a bona fide starting goaltender. Granted, you could argue a good backup goalie is more valuable than a 4D or a 3C -- but, point is, I don't think Mrazek is necessarily the clear choice.

For all we know, Holland -- who has said he's spoken with McPhee -- could've asked McPhee how he felt about Mrazek and McPhee could've said, "Meh."

I think Mrazek is more valuable than any of our other unprotected players, and it's not even close. Next closest may be Ouellet, and I can only hope they take him at this point. I think Mrazek would be a HUGE loss to this organization.

As for the second part, put yourself in McPhee's shoes. If you thought there was a possibility that a GM was planning on exposing a certain player, and he called you up and asked you, what do you think of this player? Would you tell him, you'd definitely like to have him? Or would you play it cool in hopes that you could get him? 

There are GM's wheeling and dealing to keep specific players. If Ken Holland sits back and allows McPhee to take Mrazek, he truly is an idiot...

[amato 3,210]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Only thing I would have done differently is protect Sheahan over Abby. 

Interesting looking at other teams' lists though.  Lots of good defensemen are unprotected.  Holland may have missed the boat a bit. I'd have given long looks at Calvin De Haan and Matt Dumba. 

Right? The amount of solid defensemen unprotected makes me think Vegas will end up with a lot of picks.

[kliq 3,763]

12 minutes ago, Bump said:

Holland should be begging someone to take the Abdelkader and Nielsen contracts off Wings' salary cap.

Sheahan had a miserable year but still has promise.

Well Nieslen has a NMC, he literally had no choice but to protect him.

[e_prime 1,936]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think Mrazek is more valuable than any of our other unprotected players, and it's not even close. Next closest may be Ouellet, and I can only hope they take him at this point. I think Mrazek would be a HUGE loss to this organization.

See Buffalo:  Even though they are actively shopping Evander Kane, they still protected him because they know he has some value.  The guy is toxic and they still understand that he's got value. 

Pure speculation, but maybe Ken Holland is done with Mrazek... BUT EVEN THEN... know his value and move him when it's right.  You don't even chance losing this guy in the expansion draft when you could trade him for something more.  I don't get it at all.

[Dabura 12,232]

Just now, krsmith17 said:

I think Mrazek is more valuable than any of our other unprotected players, and it's not even close. Next closest may be Ouellet, and I can only hope they take him at this point. I think Mrazek would be a HUGE loss to this organization.

As for the second part, put yourself in McPhee's shoes. If you thought there was a possibility that a GM was planning on exposing a certain player, and he called you up and asked you, what do you think of this player? Would you tell him, you'd definitely like to have him? Or would you play it cool in hopes that you could get him? 

There are GM's wheeling and dealing to keep specific players. If Ken Holland sits back and allows McPhee to take Mrazek, he truly is an idiot...

I guess I just feel like this is overvaluing Mrazek and undervaluing Helm, Sheahan, Ouellet. Vegas will have their pick of goalies who are better than Mrazek; it's going to be their one position of strength. On forward and defense, it's going to be dicey. On a really bad team, Helm or Sheahan might be a not-horrible choice for the 2C role. Ouellet's sneaky-good, young, affordable, and he could turn into one of those RFA top-four defensemen that GMs fetishize and overvalue. Yes, McPhee could probably flip Mrazek for something, but, honestly, having a Helm or a Sheahan or an Ouellet on the roster might be more important to him.

As for the hypothetical conversation...I mean, sure. I guess I was taking it as a given that the hypothetical "Meh" would've been a *hard* "Meh," but now we're going down a rabbit hole of ifs and maybes.

[amato 3,210]

5 minutes ago, e_prime said:

See Buffalo:  Even though they are actively shopping Evander Kane, they still protected him because they know he has some value.  The guy is toxic and they still understand that he's got value. 

Pure speculation, but maybe Ken Holland is done with Mrazek... BUT EVEN THEN... know his value and move him when it's right.  You don't even chance losing this guy in the expansion draft when you could trade him for something more.  I don't get it at all.

Exactly. Makes me think there has to be a deal in place. 

[e_prime 1,936]

2 minutes ago, Dabura said:

As for the hypothetical conversation...I mean, sure. I guess I was taking it as a given that the hypothetical "Meh" would've been a *hard* "Meh," but now we're going down a rabbit hole of ifs and maybes.

One of the tenants that LGW lives and dies upon:  "Let's endlessly dissect the unknown."

[joesuffP 1,746]

Holland has been trying to trade a goalie for over a year

Mrazek had some hype around the league after we almost beat Tampa in the playoffs but that hype has died. 4M for a small backup goalie that is questionable to ever be a #1 goalie. These kinds of goalie prospects exist on every team in the NHL and they aren't overpaid already approaching UFA status

[Dabura 12,232]

1 minute ago, e_prime said:

One of the tenants that LGW lives and dies upon:  "Let's endlessly dissect the unknown."

True, true. And that's one of the reasons why I love and need LGW in my life.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Dabura

[e_prime 1,936]

Just now, amato said:

Exactly. Makes me think there has to be a deal in place. 

Me too.  I really think Holland 's plan has always been to ride the Howard/Mrazek tandem for as long as he can.  See: his previous history with goalies.

1 minute ago, joesuffP said:

Holland has been trying to trade a goalie for over a year

Has he really, though? 

He's been looking for offers and maybe listening to offers, but I'm unsure as to how hard he's actually been trying to trade a goalie.  If he was trying to trade a goalie, I'm sure he could have traded a goalie by now. 

[amato 3,210]

1 minute ago, e_prime said:

Me too.  I really think Holland 's plan has always been to ride the Howard/Mrazek tandem for as long as he can.  See: his previous history with goalies.

Can't really be upset about that strategy.. cap hits aside anyway. 

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

1 minute ago, joesuffP said:

Holland has been trying to trade a goalie for over a year

Mrazek had some hype around the league after we almost beat Tampa in the playoffs but that hype has died. 4M for a small backup goalie that is questionable to ever be a #1 goalie. These kinds of goalie prospects exist on every team in the NHL and they aren't overpaid already approaching UFA status

That's a talking point, and nothing more. All the beat writers ever do is say how hard Kenny tries to make deals, and never does. And wow, wouldn't you know it? Other teams around the league actually do make trades while Kenny sits in his office "trying". Arizona dealt an older, more expensive and worse goalie than Howard yesterday in a hockey move. Holland just doesn't have it anymore, people are judged by what they do. Since 2009, Kenny hasn't done enough to make us anything more than the mediocre team we are today.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I guess I just feel like this is overvaluing Mrazek and undervaluing Helm, Sheahan, Ouellet. Vegas will have their pick of goalies who are better than Mrazek; it's going to be their one position of strength. On forward and defense, it's going to be dicey. On a really bad team, Helm or Sheahan might be a not-horrible choice for the 2C role. Ouellet's sneaky-good, young, affordable, and he could turn into one of those RFA top-four defensemen that GMs fetishize and overvalue. Yes, McPhee could probably flip Mrazek for something, but, honestly, having a Helm or a Sheahan or an Ouellet on the roster might be more important to him.

Again, Mrazek has more value in a trade than any other player on our unprotected list. That is why you protect Mrazek. McPhee would be very wise to take the best player available from every team and work the phones after. Sure, he could take Ouellet and put him on his 2nd pair, or he could take Mrazek and shop him and likely get a better defenseman than Ouellet. Matter of opinion I guess, and I've made it very clear in the past that I'm not very high on Ouellet, and I still believe the sky is the limit with Mrazek. Agree to disagree. I'd be shocked if Mrazek is not picked up by Vegas, unless there is some other sort of side deal... *fingers crossed*

[joesuffP 1,746]

10M on goaltending and it's still one of the teams main weaknesses. Howard was the only strength on that tandem last year and with his injury history, Coreau could come in and put up Mrazek numbers for basically free

[e_prime 1,936]

Thoughts?

[joesuffP 1,746]

4 minutes ago, Detroit # 1 Fan said:

That's a talking point, and nothing more. All the beat writers ever do is say how hard Kenny tries to make deals, and never does. And wow, wouldn't you know it? Other teams around the league actually do make trades while Kenny sits in his office "trying". Arizona dealt an older, more expensive and worse goalie than Howard yesterday in a hockey move. Holland just doesn't have it anymore, people are judged by what they do. Since 2009, Kenny hasn't done enough to make us anything more than the mediocre team we are today.

Mike Smith severely underrated on here. He's a true #1 that can be counted on to play the majority of the games every year. Howard is not

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, e_prime said:

Thoughts?

Agree with the first part. As for the second part, terrible way to get his attention if he's no longer part of the organization...

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

2 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

Mike Smith severely underrated on here. He's a true #1 that can be counted on to play the majority of the games every year. Howard is not

I actually do like Smith, but his numbers have been trending down for years now and he's going to be turning 36 this year. The comparison to Howard is a fair one, and shows that Holland isn't pushing as hard as other GM's. Not just on goalies either.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Mrazek has had two seasons to make the job his and instead has done nothing to separate himself from an older, inconsistent, and injury prone goalie. Add to that he has shown times of having a sense of entitlement and a s*** attitude about having to earn the job. Factor in that you know come next season he is going to be demanding a starters pay for a job he hasn't earned. Outside of about 2-3 months combined the last two seasons he has been a bust compared to the expectations. Holland sees this as going two ways. Either he rids himself of an under-performing player or being exposed lights a fire in Mrazek and he actually puts together a full season of play. Times have changed and good goalies are not nearly as hard to find as they used to be.....as long as you have a competent GM that is.

[Dabura 12,232]

25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Again, Mrazek has more value in a trade than any other player on our unprotected list. That is why you protect Mrazek. McPhee would be very wise to take the best player available from every team and work the phones after. Sure, he could take Ouellet and put him on his 2nd pair, or he could take Mrazek and shop him and likely get a better defenseman than Ouellet. Matter of opinion I guess, and I've made it very clear in the past that I'm not very high on Ouellet, and I still believe the sky is the limit with Mrazek. Agree to disagree. I'd be shocked if Mrazek is not picked up by Vegas, unless there is some other sort of side deal... *fingers crossed*

But is Mrazek's trade value actually anything to write home about? Is he, in fact, the best player on our unprotected list? Personally, I'm not sure I believe the answer to both of these questions is "Yes, absolutely." Difference of opinion, I s'pose.

I probably would've protected Mrazek over Howard, but I'm not feeling the f***-you-Holland juices coursing through my veins on this one. Though, granted, that's because I think Mrazek is probably safe. If I'm wrong, and this is Holland just doing Holland things, and Vegas takes Mrazek...well, we'll cross that bridge when if we come to it.

So, assuming Holland knows something that we don't (Mrazek is almost certainly safe), I'm ok with protecting Howard. If, on the other hand, this is a "Whatevz" decision on Holland's part and Vegas ends up taking Mrazek, I will say mean things about Holland.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Dabura

[e_prime 1,936]

2 minutes ago, Dabura said:

But is Mrazek's trade value actually anything to write home about? Is he, in fact, the best player on our unprotected list? Personally, I'm not sure I believe the answer to both of these questions is "Yes, absolutely." Difference of opinion, I s'pose.

I probably would've protected Mrazek over Howard, but I'm not feeling the f***-you-Holland juices coursing through my veins on this one. Though, granted, that's because I think Mrazek is probably safe. If I'm wrong, and this is Holland just doing Holland things, and Vegas takes Mrazek...well, we'll cross that bridge when if we come to it.

So, assuming Holland knows something that we don't (Mrazek is almost certainly safe), I'm ok with protecting Howard. If, on the other hand, this is a "Whatevz" decision on Holland's part and Vegas end up taking Mrazek, I will say mean things about Holland.

I will definitely has mean things to say if those "Whatevz" decisions end up being something along the lines of: "we're in 'win now' mode" 

Edited June 18, 2017 by e_prime

[Wings_Toledo 233]

I'm gonna laugh so hard if Vegas ends up taking Kronwall or Ericsson.

[Dabura 12,232]

1 minute ago, e_prime said:

I will definitely has mean things to say if those "Whatevz" decisions end up being something along the lines of: "we're in win mode now." 

My butt is ready to be hurt.