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Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

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1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

It could very well go to Sulak. At 24, he's pretty much at the end of being a "prospect". If you're going to throw someone out there, Sulak would be a better choice over Cholowski and Hronek. The kids are only 20 and you can afford to bring them along slowly. Plus they project to be better than Sulak, so if Sulak withers at the NHL level, it's no big deal.

mehhh.

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On 7/3/2018 at 2:27 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Green is occupying a spot that no kid has any business filling.

A spot that Daley, DK, Kronwall, Jensen, and Ericsson have no business filling either.

If you want to strip this team down to the bare bones and ruin whatever winning culture we have left preserved, you won't find my agreeing. Green won't get us into the playoffs, but he at least acts as a placeholder for the #1 spot. He is literally the only offensively gifted Dman we have, and the only backbone we have at D besides maybe Daley. He helps this team much more than Kronwall, and that play on the backend is going to help the kids who do make the team be that much better. I would think it'd be pretty frustrating as a youngster trying to learn the pro game and having to rely on DK/Ericsson/Kronwall to feed you and defend for you.

You're overrating Green. 

The spot Daley, DK, Kronwall, Jensen and Ericsson occupy is unfortunate. Which is exactly my point. We're already locked in and we went out and gave away ANOTHER spot for someone who is a decent defenseman. (Of course LGW makes Mike Green seem like a god and he's not). He's pretty good, but not enough to sign again (add onto the fact that he just had spinal surgery).

Also you and others are out of your mind if you are underrating Niklas Kronwall this much. Kronwall is one of the hardest working players on the team and a true warrior/leader next to only maybe Zetterberg. He's smart on the powerplay. He does a good job of picking his matchups on breakaways and letting the goalie cover the shot when needed.

 Ya'll are acting like it's Mike Green or nobody. Niklas Kronwall is a former shell of himself, but he still is a hell of a Red Wing and ya'll are on crack if you think Cholowski, Hronek can't learn a thing of two from Kronwall. 

For starters, he still Kronwall's people. Mike Green's a *****. 

 

Edited by kickazz

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On 7/3/2018 at 8:10 PM, krsmith17 said:

We had the 8th worst power-play. Imagine if we didn't have Green... 

Actually not much different. Just with a quick look with Green it was 17.5, without him it was 16.5 (when he got injured). 

SO GOOD. HELL YEA MIKE GREEN. 

On 7/3/2018 at 8:10 PM, krsmith17 said:

You're pretty much where I was at with Daley last offseason, so I completely see where you're coming from. I do find it a little odd though, that you were all about Daley signing for 3 years last offseason, and not Green for 2 years this offseason. What changed?

 

1. Green had spinal surgery. Big huge no no. Would be one thing if it was years ago and he was able to play just fine. We don't even know if he can play.

2. We just went full on young and hot in our draft with Zadina, Veleno and Cholowski, Ras etc are all knocking on the door. We've tried "patches" the last 3 years and have consistently gotten worse, not better. 

3. Daley's contract is cheap. Very cheap. 

4. Our performance was so terrible with the team that we had last year; there is absolutely no reason to re-sign the same people over again. Time to move on. 

 

 

Edited by kickazz

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2 hours ago, kickazz said:

You're overrating Green. 

The spot Daley, DK, Kronwall, Jensen and Ericsson occupy is unfortunate. Which is exactly my point. We're already locked in and we went out and gave away ANOTHER spot for someone who is a decent defenseman. (Of course LGW makes Mike Green seem like a god and he's not). He's pretty good, but not enough to sign again (add onto the fact that he just had spinal surgery).

Also you and others are out of your mind if you are underrating Niklas Kronwall this much. Kronwall is one of the hardest working players on the team and a true warrior/leader next to only maybe Zetterberg. He's smart on the powerplay. He does a good job of picking his matchups on breakaways and letting the goalie cover the shot when needed.

 Ya'll are acting like it's Mike Green or nobody. Niklas Kronwall is a former shell of himself, but he still is a hell of a Red Wing and ya'll are on crack if you think Cholowski, Hronek can't learn a thing of two from Kronwall. 

For starters, he still Kronwall's people. Mike Green's a *****. 

 

Agree on Kronwall. Disagree on Green.

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10 hours ago, kickazz said:

You're overrating Green. 

The spot Daley, DK, Kronwall, Jensen and Ericsson occupy is unfortunate. Which is exactly my point. We're already locked in and we went out and gave away ANOTHER spot for someone who is a decent defenseman. (Of course LGW makes Mike Green seem like a god and he's not). He's pretty good, but not enough to sign again (add onto the fact that he just had spinal surgery).

Also you and others are out of your mind if you are underrating Niklas Kronwall this much. Kronwall is one of the hardest working players on the team and a true warrior/leader next to only maybe Zetterberg. He's smart on the powerplay. He does a good job of picking his matchups on breakaways and letting the goalie cover the shot when needed.

 Ya'll are acting like it's Mike Green or nobody. Niklas Kronwall is a former shell of himself, but he still is a hell of a Red Wing and ya'll are on crack if you think Cholowski, Hronek can't learn a thing of two from Kronwall. 

For starters, he still Kronwall's people. Mike Green's a *****. 

 

Pretty much what Neo said.

I love Kronwall. Great leader whose given, and continues to give, his body n soul to this team. Very much want him around as long as he can still contribute. Id consider re-signing him again after this contract.

Green is an entirely seperate issue in my book.

I dont think im overvaluing Green. I thought I was being pretty modest calling him a placeholder. Certainly didnt call him a god or anything close to it.

Just so were clear, IMO, Green is not a #1 NHL dman. He's a high end 2nd pairing playing the #1. And I think our D has a big drop off after that. Daley was a great signing, but in my book hes a low end 2nd pairing. After that I think were looking at all bottom pairing guys. Including Dekeyser and Kronwall. Thats why I want Green on this team. I dont doubt that Kronwall sets a great example for prospects, but I want a player that can literaly lead the D on the ice and eat the hard minutes, for the good of every players confidence. Kronwall can have the lockerroom. 

Green is plugging a hole. I think its a HUGE hole, and thats why i think its worth plugging. 

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Hronek has supposedly developed faster than any of our scouts expected. And him and Sulak looked good together at worlds iirc. Would love to see them both brought up together, if we made the space. That might have to wait until the 2019-20 season though. 

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Good Read By Khan On Projected Lineups

Khan's lineup to start the season:

Mantha - Larkin - Zadina
Athanasiou - Nielsen - Rasmussen
Nyquist - Helm - Vanek
Bertuzzi - Glendening - Abdelkader
Extras: Frk, Witkowski

Explanation:

Quote

I didn't include Henrik Zetterberg because some in the organization doubt he'll return.

If he's done because of his back – even though he's played every game the past three seasons – they'll put him on long-term injured reserve at the start of the season. 

I think Zadina and Rasmussen will make the team, at least initially. In Rasmussen's case the Red Wings will have nine games to assess whether he's ready for the NHL or should return to his junior club, WHL Tri-City, without burning a year off his entry-level contract. Rasmussen can't be assigned to Grand Rapids.

It appears the Red Wings will be able to freely move Zadina between Detroit and the Grand Rapids Griffins,

Zadina and Rasmussen probably aren't going to play on the same line, so I figure one will get Larkin as his center and the other Nielsen. The Nyquist-Helm-Vanek combination was the team's best line at the start of 2016-17, before Vanek got injured. 

If Zetterberg doesn't return, the Red Wings will be thin at center. They would probably recall Dominic Turgeon from Grand Rapids  if one of those centers is injured.

On the defense:

Quote

On defense, I think Filip Hronek will join a group that includes Mike Green, Danny DeKeyser, Jonathan Ericsson, Trevor Daley, Niklas Kronwall and Nick Jensen.

On trading for a Dman:

Quote

I don’t think they’re ready to unload Svechnikov after one down season in the AHL. Athanasiou probably is their biggest trading chip. They’re not going to move him just to clear a roster spot, they’ll want a good, relatively young defenseman in return. They have interest in Carolina’s Justin Faulk.

I think they’re prepared to go into the season with Athanasiou. They need to see if Filip Zadina and Michael Rasmussen make the team and if they do what kind of impact they will have. They probably also want to give Athanasiou another opportunity to show he can be engaged on a more consistent basis. 

It might be crowded up front right now, but they’re not sure if Henrik Zetterberg will be back this season, and even if he is, it’s safe to assume he won’t be around in 2019-20. Gustav Nyquist might not be here then, either, and the same for Thomas Vanek. So that opens three spots in the top nine. 

More on Athanasiou:

Quote

The Red Wings aren’t trying to turn him into something he isn’t – a physical player and grinder. They want him to be more involved in puck battles in the hard areas, not shy away from contact or always be away from the fray, looking for a breakout pass. 

 

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7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

On defense, I think Filip Hronek will join a group that includes Mike Green, Danny DeKeyser, Jonathan Ericsson, Trevor Daley, Niklas Kronwall and Nick Jensen.

The Red Wings aren’t trying to turn him into something he isn’t – a physical player and grinder. They want him to be more involved in puck battles in the hard areas, not shy away from contact or always be away from the fray, looking for a breakout pass. 

So no Hicketts? Interesting. Would they lose him on waivers to send him down?

AA away from the fray waiting for a breakout pass? Nah, he never does that.

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11 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Good Read By Khan On Projected Lineups

Khan's lineup to start the season:

Mantha - Larkin - Zadina
Athanasiou - Nielsen - Rasmussen
Nyquist - Helm - Vanek
Bertuzzi - Glendening - Abdelkader
Extras: Frk, Witkowski

Explanation:

On the defense:

On trading for a Dman:

More on Athanasiou:

 

Thankd for all the info!

I love the lines! That top line has points written all over It! Heck so do the 2nd and 3rd!

It's pretty telling when the Wings inside man is not counting on Z being there. Oh well, guess no 1000 points for him. He had a great career. Seems too short.

Btw, shouldn't this all this talk be in the 2018 rebuild thread?

Edited by LeftWinger

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2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Thankd for all the info!

I love the lines! That top line has points written all over It! Heck so do the 2nd and 3rd!

It's pretty telling when the Wings inside man is not counting on Z being there. Oh well, guess no 1000 points for him. He had a great career. Seems too short.

Btw, shouldn't this all this talk be in the 2018 rebuild thread?

We're discussing pushing Pierre McGuires head up someones ass in another thread, i think we'll be fine.

I think Khans lines are pretty unrealistic knowing our coach.

The interesting part to me is his belief that Zadina, Ras, and Hronek will make the team. Pretty exciting to say the least. 

Id put money on Zberg playing next year. Man could play championship hockey with a bullet in his spine.

5 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

So no Hicketts? Interesting. Would they lose him on waivers to send him down?

AA away from the fray waiting for a breakout pass? Nah, he never does that.

I believe Hicketts is still exempt from waivers

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2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Thankd for all the info!

I love the lines! That top line has points written all over It! Heck so do the 2nd and 3rd!

It's pretty telling when the Wings inside man is not counting on Z being there. Oh well, guess no 1000 points for him. He had a great career. Seems too short.

Btw, shouldn't this all this talk be in the 2018 rebuild thread?

LOL. Since when do threads stay on topic?

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4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

We're discussing pushing Pierre McGuires head up someones ass in another thread, i think we'll be fine.

I think Khans lines are pretty unrealistic knowing our coach.

The interesting part to me is his belief that Zadina, Ras, and Hronek will make the team. Pretty exciting to say the least. 

Id put money on Zberg playing next year. Man could play championship hockey with a bullet in his spine.

I believe Hicketts is still exempt from waivers

Yes, Hicketts has one more year left of waiver exemption.

image.thumb.png.c6d9de61687cebb9333a97a8b1785a72.png

https://www.capfriendly.com/waivers-calculator/joe-hicketts#results

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19 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Good Read By Khan On Projected Lineups

Khan's lineup to start the season:

Mantha - Larkin - Zadina
Athanasiou - Nielsen - Rasmussen
Nyquist - Helm - Vanek
Bertuzzi - Glendening - Abdelkader
Extras: Frk, Witkowski

Explanation:

On the defense:

On trading for a Dman:

More on Athanasiou:

 

Helloooooo Jack

 

hughes.jpg

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...sugue...As mentioned in the 2018 thread AND the Abby thread, let's hope that Larkin gets a fair deal that allows us to be active next July.

We have a good amount of Cap coming off the books in 2019. Vanek, Nyquist (maybe re-signed but cheaper,) Z guarantee LTIR, Franzen still LTIR, Kronwall and Howard. Total that is approx: $24M (combined) coming off the books in one way or another. Maybe the Cap increases a few million again as well. But if we can get Larkin signed this year to a team friendly $5M-$5.5M deal, there is a great chance that we could be serious players for Karlsson (if he's UFA) and a hot goalie like Bobvrosky. Ya, he's 29 now, but I think if we can get him for 4 years at around $9M he may be that goalie (along with Karlsson) that we need to take us back to glory within those 4 years.

As mentioned in the Abby thread we have a good amount of talented kids up front (plus we'll more than likely be a lottery team again this year) and if we were able to add Karlsson and Bobvrosky (ya that would suck up a ton of cap (probably cap hell) but if we win within 4-5 years, it'd be worth it. Plus within 2 years, Ericsson, Daley and Green's cap will also be gone, replaced by mostly ELC's. This could be a scenario where this tea's rebuild becomes complete.

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9 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Less or more?

I love the reaction though! Made me laugh. I needed it!

Not at all. Goalies are too flakey and the difference between good and bad is not enough to justify spending that much.

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16 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

...sugue...As mentioned in the 2018 thread AND the Abby thread, let's hope that Larkin gets a fair deal that allows us to be active next July.

We have a good amount of Cap coming off the books in 2019. Vanek, Nyquist (maybe re-signed but cheaper,) Z guarantee LTIR, Franzen still LTIR, Kronwall and Howard. Total that is approx: $24M (combined) coming off the books in one way or another. Maybe the Cap increases a few million again as well. But if we can get Larkin signed this year to a team friendly $5M-$5.5M deal, there is a great chance that we could be serious players for Karlsson (if he's UFA) and a hot goalie like Bobvrosky. Ya, he's 29 now, but I think if we can get him for 4 years at around $9M he may be that goalie (along with Karlsson) that we need to take us back to glory within those 4 years.

As mentioned in the Abby thread we have a good amount of talented kids up front (plus we'll more than likely be a lottery team again this year) and if we were able to add Karlsson and Bobvrosky (ya that would suck up a ton of cap (probably cap hell) but if we win within 4-5 years, it'd be worth it. Plus within 2 years, Ericsson, Daley and Green's cap will also be gone, replaced by mostly ELC's. This could be a scenario where this tea's rebuild becomes complete.

Never. Pay. Goalies. This. Much.

A tandem shouldn't cost any more than $9M, let alone one guy. 

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