AtlantaHotWings 997 Report post Posted January 3, 2020 Agree/Disagree? https://www.mlive.com/sports/j66j-2020/01/e8f872d8707692/red-wings-midseason-grades-reflect-forgettable-first-half.html I think a wee bit to lenient on some I would have failed Jimmy, Abby for example 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spongewingredpants 75 Report post Posted January 3, 2020 ugly but the truth. I would actually give Larkin and Nielsen lower grades Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 3, 2020 Assuming some/most/all of those "D"s and "D-"s are basically "F"s, I'm down with these grades. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted January 3, 2020 Looks like someone put the special ed kids in the honors classes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greenrebellion 415 Report post Posted January 3, 2020 Unfortunately looks like Larkin is more of a 2C which means we have another big hole to fill (among the dozens of other holes). 1 mackel reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 4, 2020 22 hours ago, greenrebellion said: Unfortunately looks like Larkin is more of a 2C which means we have another big hole to fill (among the dozens of other holes). TBH, this season hasn't really changed my opinion of him; I still think he's a solid-not-spectacular 1C. *Ideally*, we find a gamebreaking powerhouse 1C and Larkin slots in at 2C. So, in that sense, I agree that we have a hole at 1C in that we don't have a Nathan MacKinnon. But I dunno that we *need* a Nathan MacKinnon. Would be awesome to have one, but if Larkin can become something akin to Ryan O'Reilly, I'm more than ok with that. I think it's worth pointing out that Larkin's basically our only serviceable top-six centerman this season. Nielsen's a ghost. Filppula's a bottom-six centerman. Glendening is Glendening. So Larkin's in tough this season. I'd like to see him do a better job at rising to the occasion, I guess, but it is what it is. No big deal (imo). 2 krsmith17 and amato reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 4, 2020 Also, FWIW, I would say Larkin deserves some credit for the big season Bertuzzi is having (currently on pace for 60 points), as the two of them have been linemates for most of the season. If you put Lafreniere on Larkin's wing next season, a lot of people who are currently down on Larkin will probably be singing his praises. I'm not saying that as a pointed jab at any fans; rather, I'm saying plants need water and sunshine and love. 4 _SP_, Wheelchairsuperhero, krsmith17 and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 4, 2020 The only thing that's changed for me with Larkin is that I no longer value him as untouchable. Still an amazing player, and you'd have to send me a lot of exactly what I want to get him out of my hands, but yeah I think for the right package I could be persuaded. Still think Larkin can be a 90 pt center if we put Lafreniere on his wing. 2 Wheelchairsuperhero and Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mackel 682 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: The only thing that's changed for me with Larkin is that I no longer value him as untouchable. Still an amazing player, and you'd have to send me a lot of exactly what I want to get him out of my hands, but yeah I think for the right package I could be persuaded. Still think Larkin can be a 90 pt center if we put Lafreniere on his wing. Depending on our draft position it may make alot of sense to trade him. Especially if say we have 1st or 2nd overall and another team that barely missed the playoffs lottos up to 2nd or 3rd. Maybe trading Larkin for that pick plus something and rebooting the rebuild would make sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, mackel said: Depending on our draft position it may make alot of sense to trade him. Especially if say we have 1st or 2nd overall and another team that barely missed the playoffs lottos up to 2nd or 3rd. Maybe trading Larkin for that pick plus something and rebooting the rebuild would make sense. For Larkin I want a young center, a young Dman, and a high draft pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mackel 682 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: For Larkin I want a young center, a young Dman, and a high draft pick. You can't always get what you want But if you try sometime you find You get what you need Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 On 1/3/2020 at 7:34 AM, AtlantaHotWings said: Agree/Disagree? https://www.mlive.com/sports/j66j-2020/01/e8f872d8707692/red-wings-midseason-grades-reflect-forgettable-first-half.html I think a wee bit to lenient on some I would have failed Jimmy, Abby for example I honestly really don't care about personal grades since this team simply sucks. As far as I'm concerned anybody on this current roster is up for sale at the trade deadline for the right return. 7 hours ago, Dabura said: Also, FWIW, I would say Larkin deserves some credit for the big season Bertuzzi is having (currently on pace for 60 points), as the two of them have been linemates for most of the season. If you put Lafreniere on Larkin's wing next season, a lot of people who are currently down on Larkin will probably be singing his praises. I'm not saying that as a pointed jab at any fans; rather, I'm saying plants need water and sunshine and love. 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,207 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 19 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: The only thing that's changed for me with Larkin is that I no longer value him as untouchable. Still an amazing player, and you'd have to send me a lot of exactly what I want to get him out of my hands, but yeah I think for the right package I could be persuaded. Still think Larkin can be a 90 pt center if we put Lafreniere on his wing. 15 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: For Larkin I want a young center, a young Dman, and a high draft pick. I'll admit that I'm not feeling the "I can't imagine where this team would be without Larkin" vibe like I was last season. But, I mean, yeah. We all know the situation. If we're moving Larkin, it's for a huge return, e.g. Dante Fabbro + Philip Tomasino + NSH's 2020 1st (unprotected). And even then, I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger, as we'd be trading a proven 1C for three maybes. How many teams would be willing to pay that kind of price for Larkin? I reckon not many, if any. Because Larkin means more to a historically awful bottom-barrel team like ours than he does to a team that isn't a flaming trainwreck. 15 hours ago, mackel said: Depending on our draft position it may make alot of sense to trade him. Especially if say we have 1st or 2nd overall and another team that barely missed the playoffs lottos up to 2nd or 3rd. Maybe trading Larkin for that pick plus something and rebooting the rebuild would make sense. Eh, I dunno. I think I'd rather see Yzerman make some aggressive moves around our top young talent. If we're getting Lafreniere, who should be ready to be a very good NHLer next season, Yzerman should put this team in a position to make the 2021 playoffs. If we're getting anyone not named Lafreniere with our first pick, Yzerman should be targeting the 2022 playoffs. (I'm not sure any of Byfield, Stutzle, Raymond, Holtz, Perfetti, Lundell will be ready to be a very good NHLer next season.) 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Dabura said: I'll admit that I'm not feeling the "I can't imagine where this team would be without Larkin" vibe like I was last season. But, I mean, yeah. We all know the situation. If we're moving Larkin, it's for a huge return, e.g. Dante Fabbro + Philip Tomasino + NSH's 2020 1st (unprotected). And even then, I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger, as we'd be trading a proven 1C for three maybes. How many teams would be willing to pay that kind of price for Larkin? I reckon not many, if any. Because Larkin means more to a historically awful bottom-barrel team like ours than he does to a team that isn't a flaming trainwreck. I figure a deal for Larkin would have to include roster players. Jarnkrok + Ekholm + 1st (top 5 protection) + 2nd Bu yeah realistically there probably do not exist very many scenarios where Larkin gets traded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: I figure a deal for Larkin would have to include roster players. Jarnkrok + Ekholm + 1st (top 5 protection) + 2nd Bu yeah realistically there probably do not exist very many scenarios where Larkin gets traded. 23 year old 1C for 28 year old 3C and 29 year old 3D + a couple picks... Yeah, no thanks... Dabura's package is much closer to what Yzerman would be looking for. That's if he were trading him. Larkin isn't getting traded though, no matter how "lazy" you think he is, or how many drugs you think he does... The lazy thing couldn't be further from the truth, and the drugs thing is an unsubstantiated rumor... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: 23 year old 1C for 28 year old 3C and 29 year old 3D + a couple picks... Yeah, no thanks... Ok 8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Dabura's package is much closer to what Yzerman would be looking for. Agree to disagree I guess, for a roster player I assume Yzerguy would want at least one roster player in return, maybe that's Fabbro 8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Larkin isn't getting traded though, no matter how "lazy" you think he is, or how many drugs you think he does... The lazy thing couldn't be further from the truth, and the drugs thing is an unsubstantiated rumor... You seem to be operating under the false assumption that I wanna trade Larkin... Your overreaction to the slightest critique of Larkin speaks volumes though. Edited January 5, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 20 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Ok Agree to disagree I guess, for a roster player I assume Yzerguy would want at least one roster player in return, maybe that's Fabbro You seem to be operating under the false assumption that I wanna trade Larkin... Your overreaction to the slightest critique of Larkin speaks volumes though. I didn't say he wouldn't want a roster player. I'm saying he would definitely want players in their prime, not soon-to-be 30 year old veterans... I never said or implied that you want to trade Larkin, but if we do, we're not going to sell low on him. Your package would be selling low on him. "Larkin is lazy and he sucks" = "slightest critique". Me disagreeing with you = "overreaction". Got it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 I dont think I would trade any of the young core. Constantly recycling players just prolongs a rebuild. Rather see SY fill roster needs thru the draft an free agency. Making a new hole to fill another doesnt make much sense to me. 3 ely s, Hockeymom1960 and Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: I didn't say he wouldn't want a roster player. I'm saying he would definitely want players in their prime, not soon-to-be 30 year old veterans... Tomasino and Fabbro are definitely not in their prime 15 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: 52 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Larkin isn't getting traded though, no matter how "lazy" you think he is, or how many drugs you think he does... I never said or implied that you want to trade Larkin You certainly seem to have a problem with ME in this instance 17 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: "Larkin is lazy and he sucks" = "slightest critique". Woooooooshhhhhhhhhhh That's the sound of the meme/joke flying right over ur head 18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Me disagreeing with you = "overreaction". Not gonna lie, you came flying in pretty butthurt already. What's up? 15 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: I dont think I would trade any of the young core. Constantly recycling players just prolongs a rebuild. Rather see SY fill roster needs thru the draft an free agency. Making a new hole to fill another doesnt make much sense to me. The only way you trade Larkin is if you're getting something really great in return. Maybe there wouldn't be any draft picks involved at all, and it would be like a Weber/Subban, Jones/Johansen, Drouin/Sergachev kinda deal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Tomasino and Fabbro are definitely not in their prime You certainly seem to have a problem with ME in this instance Woooooooshhhhhhhhhhh That's the sound of the meme/joke flying right over ur head Not gonna lie, you came flying in pretty butthurt already. What's up? The only way you trade Larkin is if you're getting something really great in return. Maybe there wouldn't be any draft picks involved at all, and it would be like a Weber/Subban, Jones/Johansen, Drouin/Sergachev kinda deal I mean if its for a 1C, then yeah? I see our future 1D in Seider. Our 3D in Hronek. If McIsaac pans out, I think we're set with the top 4. Mantha, Bert, Zadina, AA, Stutzle/Lafrenchie more than fills ur 4 winger spots in the top 6. The need that concerns me the most is 1C/2C. Larkin is not elite, but if you trade him, the team is really screwed even if Veleno becomes a 2C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Tomasino and Fabbro are definitely not in their prime You certainly seem to have a problem with ME in this instance Woooooooshhhhhhhhhhh That's the sound of the meme/joke flying right over ur head Not gonna lie, you came flying in pretty butthurt already. What's up? The only way you trade Larkin is if you're getting something really great in return. Maybe there wouldn't be any draft picks involved at all, and it would be like a Weber/Subban, Jones/Johansen, Drouin/Sergachev kinda deal No, they're not in their prime yet. The other two are past their prime. See the difference?... So you weren't serious about him being lazy after saying it multiple times, bashing him for not wanting to attend a dumb all-star game, and apparently doing drugs? Ok... Flying in pretty butthurt? Yeah, ok... The bold, I agree with. So why suggest trading him for something really not-great? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: I mean if its for a 1C, then yeah? I see our future 1D in Seider. Our 3D in Hronek. If McIsaac pans out, I think we're set with the top 4. Mantha, Bert, Zadina, AA, Stutzle/Lafrenchie more than fills ur 4 winger spots in the top 6. The need that concerns me the most is 1C/2C. Larkin is not elite, but if you trade him, the team is really screwed even if Veleno becomes a 2C. Agreed which is why I said think there exists very few scenarios where Larkin is traded. He literally IS out centers right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: No, they're not in their prime yet. So then why do have sucha problem with me and not Dabura? According to you: 37 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: I'm saying he would definitely want players in their prime 4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: So you weren't serious about him being lazy after saying it multiple times, bashing him for not wanting to attend a dumb all-star game, and apparently doing drugs? Ok... There's the butthurt lol It's unfortunate that you have Larkin on such a high pedestal that he's immune to criticism. This is a player expected to be around a 70 pt center at this point in his career. He's currently on pace to be a 50 pt center. He deserves every bit of examination and criticism. I don't play favorites where Nielsen falling short of expectations gets all the bashing, but Larkin doesn't. The coke thing is a rumor. I've never said otherwise. In fact, I said I really don't care if he is using... His ASG comments were not smart at all. Not gonna apologize for giving him heat on that. 12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Flying in pretty butthurt? Yeah, ok... The bold, I agree with. So why suggest trading him for something really not-great? Yeah man, I put some off the cuff trade together in response to Dabura, and you jumped down my throat. I think we can discuss what a Larkin trade would look like without that drama. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 36 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: So then why do have sucha problem with me and not Dabura? According to you: There's the butthurt lol It's unfortunate that you have Larkin on such a high pedestal that he's immune to criticism. This is a player expected to be around a 70 pt center at this point in his career. He's currently on pace to be a 50 pt center. He deserves every bit of examination and criticism. I don't play favorites where Nielsen falling short of expectations gets all the bashing, but Larkin doesn't. The coke thing is a rumor. I've never said otherwise. In fact, I said I really don't care if he is using... His ASG comments were not smart at all. Not gonna apologize for giving him heat on that. Yeah man, I put some off the cuff trade together in response to Dabura, and you jumped down my throat. I think we can discuss what a Larkin trade would look like without that drama. The only one overreacting and bringing the drama is you. This was not a personal attack, and I did not "jump down your throat"... I simply disagreed with your trade proposal. Get over it. You always try to make things something they're not. I never said Larkin should not be criticized. Go ahead, criticize away, if that's what helps you get through this painful season, watching the worst iteration of the Red Wings most of us have ever seen... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: The only one overreacting and bringing the drama is you. This was not a personal attack, and I did not "jump down your throat"... I simply disagreed with your trade proposal. Get over it. NO mAtTeR hOW LazY YoU tHInK hE Is, OR hOw MAnY dRUgS yoU THinK hE DoES Whatever you gotta tell urself my man 9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: You always try to make things something they're not. I never said Larkin should not be criticized. Go ahead, criticize away, if that's what helps you get through this painful season, watching the worst iteration of the Red Wings most of us have ever seen... No, but you seem to have real problem with it 1 hour ago, krsmith17 said: So you weren't serious about him being lazy after saying it multiple times, bashing him for not wanting to attend a dumb all-star game, and apparently doing drugs? Ok... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites