2021 Off-Season (Too Soon?)

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Lou literally moved Leddy because he knew he was losing him to Vegas for nothing. 

Absolutely. Which is why I think Yzerman may have overpaid. I like the acquisition of Leddy, I just didn't / don't really like the price we paid to get him.

20 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Price isn't at all the same situation. 34 in less than a month with a huge contract and a $11 million bonus coming to him soon.

Leddy also isn't near the caliber player as Price is goaltender. I wouldn't be at all shocked if Price is in Seattle next season.

21 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Leddy is a 22 minute top pairing puck mover who runs the PP. 

Yup, really solid player, and if he were a UFA I'd be thrilled with the addition. I don't like that we had to give up a 2nd round pick for a "cap dump". I don't like that we acquired the player before the expansion draft, losing another protection spot. And I don't like that we lost a contract retention on Panik. Regardless, Yzerman got his guy, and Leddy should be a very good player for us, and mentor to the young defensemen. If he does have a strong season (I think he will), I'd definitely be open to signing him to a 2-3 year contract extension.

24 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

10 bucks says you woulda griped about Graves had Leddy not come in lol

Cool. 100 bucks says I wouldn't have... 

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Leddy helps there cap certainly, but he isn't a cap dump.

Not a cap dump? Would you prefer "expansion draft dump"? Regardless how you want to term it, the Islanders had to "dump" Leddy, or lose him for nothing to Seattle. I think Lamoriello won this trade. It's not a big deal. Hopefully Yzerman can recoup some assets at the deadline (if he's not planning on extending him).

[mackel 768]

34 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Not a cap dump? Would you prefer "expansion draft dump"? Regardless how you want to term it, the Islanders had to "dump" Leddy, or lose him for nothing to Seattle. I think Lamoriello won this trade. It's not a big deal. Hopefully Yzerman can recoup some assets at the deadline (if he's not planning on extending him).

Bottom line we over paid... 

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, mackel said:

Bottom line we over paid... 

For sure. And I don't even hate the trade. I like the addition of Leddy.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

18 minutes ago, mackel said:

Bottom line we over paid... 

I dont think so. We basically flipped a 2nd round pick this year for a 1st round pick next year, when we trade Leddy at the TDL.

And we flipped Panik essentially for Leddy.

The retained salary just gets Yzerman closer to the salary floor.

Win, win, win

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I dont think so. We basically flipped a 2nd round pick this year for a 1st round pick next year, when we trade Leddy at the TDL.

And we flipped Panik essentially for Leddy.

The retained salary just gets Yzerman closer to the salary floor.

Win, win, win

That's assuming we get a 1st round pick. That's no guarantee...

10 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

When Yzerman moves Leddy for a 1st at the deadline what do we think then fellas?

IF we get a 1st round pick at next year's trade deadline, everyone will obviously be thrilled with the trade(s)...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

15 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

That's assuming we get a 1st round pick. That's no guarantee...

IF we get a 1st round pick at next year's trade deadline, everyone will obviously be thrilled with the trade(s)...

Even if it's a 2nd, we still break even on the draft picks while adding a good veteran dman to the roster for most of the season. Still a win.

[mackel 768]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

When Yzerman moves Leddy for a 1st at the deadline what do we think then fellas?

Still over paid.... 

We should have got Leddy and a 3rd for 50% off Panik.

Even if this is the guy we wanted we over paid... even if we get a 1st for him at the TDL we over paid.  Sometimes it is what it is.

[krsmith17 7,191]

38 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Even if it's a 2nd, we still break even on the draft picks while adding a good veteran dman to the roster for most of the season. Still a win.

There will be other veteran defensemen available in free agency, without giving up any assets, that also could have been flipped at next year's trade deadline for a 2nd (maybe even 1st) round pick. There are also other factors at play, besides the pick. The one less protection spot, and the used retention spot factor into the trade as well.

Regardless, I'm okay with the trade. I don't think it was a huge loss by any stretch, but I don't think many people would consider Yzerman the winner of that trade *today*.

[Akakabuto 1,863]

Even if a team is in a cap crunch that doesnt automatically make every player contract on that team to have negative value.

We got a top pair defenseman for a 2nd round pick. We needed one of those. And I'll put down the getting-rid-of-Panik-at-50% on the + side of this deal for Detroit.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Even if a team is in a cap crunch that doesnt automatically make every player contract on that team to have negative value.

I don't think anyone is saying that though...

In this particular case, the Islanders had to trade Leddy, or lose him for nothing. I just think Yzerman should have been able to get it done without eating salary on Panik. 

8 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

We got a top pair defenseman for a 2nd round pick. We needed one of those. And I'll put down the getting-rid-of-Panik-at-50% on the + side of this deal for Detroit.

The only negative in getting rid of Panik, is using a retention on that contract. I assume if we flip Leddy, we would eat a portion of his contract. That leaves us with only one more retention on a contract. Maybe we wouldn't need any more than that anyway, but it does limit our options a little. I would like to see Yzerman make another Savard type trade, and eat salary that way. There also might be some interest in a DeKeyser at 50% retained if he can have a bit of a bounce back season. We won't be able to do both now, even if the opportunity presents itself.

[Dabura 12,232]

I agree with the "This is a pretty good trade" takes.

Red Wings Boost the Blue Line with Nick Leddy Trade [The Hockey Writers]

You know how I've been going on about what a great pairing Luke Hughes + Moritz Seider would be? Nick Leddy is basically a 30-year-old Luke Hughes; they're very similar players. Even if Leddy's Wings career doesn't extend beyond the trade deadline, he's still going to be good for Seider's development and, in turn, our rebuild effort.

Hell, even if you remove Seider from the equation, we're getting a player who's good at things our team is soul-crushingly bad at. Specifically: controlled zone entries, O-zone playmaking, power play. As I've said many times before, a league-average power play would be a total gamechanger for us.

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Leddy is WAY better than any other LHD Dman on the market

I know right? It's crazy that anyone would say otherwise... Oh wait, no one did say otherwise...

I've yet to see a single person here (or anywhere) complain about the addition of Leddy. Some, rightfully so, just believe it was a bit of an overpayment. Not a big deal...

[krsmith17 7,191]

18 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Great, then you can stop with the whole "we coulda just got a Leddy for free on the open market" BS

Never once said that, but keep trying to spin s*** like you always do...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

Unlike others I have zero problem admitting my original take (trade = unspectacular) was wrong. It took me 5 minutes Friday night to come to that conclusion. 

Anyone still bothered by this deal in any way is some type of special. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I would also argue that the likelihood of signing a Leddy level dman in free agency to a 1 or 2 year deal, at that salary, and then flipping them for a 1st or 2nd at the TDL, is pretty low.

I was, and still am, in favor of signing Suter or Martinez (which still could happen), but if SY wasn't able to sign them, we would be way worse off, if not for the acquisition of Leddy.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Here you go

We likely wouldn't have gotten a defenseman as good, for the same price, in the same age as Leddy. I've never said otherwise. We could however, have gotten a defenseman that would garner a 2nd round pick at next year's trade deadline. Not even remotely the same thing... but yeah, keep trying to spin s*** like you always do...

10 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Unlike others I have zero problem admitting my original take (trade = unspectacular) was wrong. It took me 5 minutes Friday night to come to that conclusion. 

Anyone still bothered by this deal in any way is some type of special. 

If you're referring to me, I think you're confusing this back and forth with me being "bothered" by this deal... I'm not at all. I've said as much countless times now. Leddy is a really good player that fills a direct need. You can like the acquisition and still think it was a (bit of an) overpayment. Both can be true. 

2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I would also argue that the likelihood of signing a Leddy level dman in free agency to a 1 or 2 year deal, at that salary, and then flipping them for a 1st or 2nd at the TDL, is pretty low.

I was, and still am, in favor of signing Suter or Martinez (which still could happen), but if SY wasn't able to sign them, we would be way worse off, if not for the acquisition of Leddy.

Literally. no. one. is. complaining. about. the. acquisition. of. Leddy...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

We likely wouldn't have gotten a defenseman as good, for the same price, in the same age as Leddy. I've never said otherwise. We could however, have gotten a defenseman that would garner a 2nd round pick at next year's trade deadline. Not even remotely the same thing... but yeah, keep trying to spin s*** like you always do...

If you're referring to me, I think you're confusing this back and forth with me being "bothered" by this deal... I'm not at all. I've said as much countless times now. Leddy is a really good player that fills a direct need. You can like the acquisition and still think it was a (bit of an) overpayment. Both can be true. 

Literally. no. one. is. complaining. about. the. acquisition. of. Leddy...

I was referring to your point about getting a Leddy like dman in free agency without losing an asset. At least this way we got what we all agreed this team needed. It's only an overpayment if SY COULD get one in free agency. And I think that was unlikely.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I was referring to your point about getting a Leddy like dman in free agency without losing an asset. At least this way we got what we all agreed this team needed. It's only an overpayment if SY COULD get one in free agency. And I think that was unlikely.

Yes, and that was just in response to you saying we could get a 2nd round pick for Leddy at next year's trade deadline...

I'm not against the acquisition at all. I like it. I'm not against giving up assets in trades. I just think Yzerman should have been able to get it done cheaper, since Lamoreillo had to trade Leddy or lose him for nothing. That's it. 

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I complained for a minute, but I admitted that I really didn't know much, if anything, about Leddy. The more I read and watch, the more I believe this was a hockey deal that Yzerman wanted. So he "paid up." And this is why he is GM and i am not!

As much as it would be great to get Shane Wright, I'm sure Yzerman wants his team to improve significantly this season and from everything I've seen, this helps that goal. Plus if he's scoring at his same.pace, he could get us a nice draft pick or player at the TDL. Just think Mantha. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by LeftWinger

[ely s 458]

Leddy is by far the best d-man we acquired since Rafalski and Stuart and it shows that SY wants to add quality, even for the short term, to develop his team. Instead of filling the roster with warm bodies and wait until the prospects are good enough. To pay a 2nd round pick, which will turn into a 2022 first for us, for a 60 game lease of a 30yo real top 4 d-man is not an overpayment, it is an investment which is paying back in numerous ways. We basically upgrade our pick through waiting a year. We have the wanted top 4 LHD for 60 games and a teacher for our D prospects.

When I try to image how much Leddy would cost without the expansion draft coming up, it makes me wonder why someone would see this trade as an overpayment.

[Akakabuto 1,863]

With Seider coming up, Leddy being acquired and the possibility of Detroit picking up another good LHD in free agency we can look forward to a completely transformed defense next year. Exciting!

[marcaractac 3,963]

14 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

With Seider coming up, Leddy being acquired and the possibility of Detroit picking up another good LHD in free agency we can look forward to a completely transformed defense next year. Exciting!

If we can add a guy like Tyler Johnson to shore up shop down the middle, it could be a fun season. Especially if guys like Raymond and Berggren start making the roster during the season. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

>Says he knows Nielsen, Greiss, and Larkin well. No mention of Filppula. Starting to think Nielsen will still be on the roster next year.
>Said he learned from and taught a lot to Noah Dobson. Purposeful foreshadowing for Seider.

Gotta think Yzerman asked Nielsen/Filppula/Greiss about Leddy before hand and got the good word.

Guy comes off like a boring pro. Should be a steady presence with Seider and Hronek.

Filppula is an UFA and wont be re-signed. Don't know why he would participate.

[krsmith17 7,191]

47 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

If we can add a guy like Tyler Johnson to shore up shop down the middle, it could be a fun season. Especially if guys like Raymond and Berggren start making the roster during the season. 

And add Hugo Alnefelt in the process...