2021 Off-Season (Too Soon?)

[marcaractac 3,963]

3 minutes ago, mackel said:

Zadina, MacIsaac, 2022 2nd, 2023 lotto protected 1st.

That's quite expensive. I wouldn't do it. 

[LeftWinger 4,961]

With MAF's $7M out of Vegas, I am betting (with Keeping Martinez) they will go after Ryan Suter. They are in "win now" territory and adding Suter would solidify their D. They could replace MAF with a few other G's out there. Maybe they go with Andersson or also San Jose just bought out Martin Jones. Vegas is going to make a splash tomorrow and they could become even bigger favorites to win The Cup this season.

BTW:

Doesn't sound like MAF is too keen on going to Chicago. Maybe he'll get flipped back to Pit?

Edited July 27, 2021 by LeftWinger

[kipwinger 8,524]

10 minutes ago, mackel said:

Zadina, MacIsaac, 2022 2nd, 2023 lotto protected 1st.

That probably gets it done, and it's something that we could live though I'd rather Bert be going the other way. Zadina is a pretty good player, but redundant with Vrana, Raymond, Fabbri, and Berggren in the depth chart. McIsaac is probably going to be decent, but we don't need him with Edvinsson, Johansson, and Wallinder on the left side along with Werenski. I'd do it.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That probably gets it done, and it's something that we could live though I'd rather Bert be going the other way. Zadina is a pretty good player, but redundant with Vrana, Raymond, Fabbri, and Berggren in the depth chart. McIsaac is probably going to be decent, but we don't need him with Edvinsson, Johansson, and Wallinder on the left side along with Werenski. I'd do it.

You know what we could do to even sweetin the deal more? With that lottery protected 2023 1st, we could put in a clause that IF we win the 1st overall in 2022, the lottery protection for 2023 goes away. Once we get Shane Wright, is doesn't matter for 2023, they can have whatever we get then.

to DET : Zach Werenski

to CBJ : Filip Zadina, Jared McIsaac, 2022 2nd round pick, 2023 1st rnd conditional pick (lottery protected unless Detroit wins #1 OA in 2022)

[marcaractac 3,963]

5 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

You know what we could do to even sweetin the deal more? With that lottery protected 2023 1st, we could put in a clause that IF we win the 1st overall in 2022, the lottery protection for 2023 goes away. Once we get Shane Wright, is doesn't matter for 2023, they can have whatever we get then.

to DET : Zach Werenski

to CBJ : Filip Zadina, Jared McIsaac, 2022 2nd round pick, 2023 1st rnd conditional pick (lottery protected unless Detroit wins #1 OA in 2022)

Yeah, then we win the lottery in 2023 and Columbus gets Bedard. Doh!

I guess I just don't see the point of trading so much for a guy while we still suck, when we can get him for free in 2 years when we're getting good. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by marcaractac

[kipwinger 8,524]

6 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Yeah, then we win the lottery in 2023 and Columbus gets Bedard. Doh!

I guess I just don't see the point of trading so much for a guy while we still suck, when we can get him for free in 2 years when we're getting good. 

I think the argument would be that we could get better, sooner, with Werenski on the team and under contract. Plus, a lot can change in two years. Say he gets traded to Colorado or something and loves it there, then we're screwed. If he's available now there's a good argument to trade for him and extend him so that he doesn't get the taste of another team.

That said, I've argued in the past for pursuing him in free agency so I don't think you're way off base here either.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

8 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Yeah, then we win the lottery in 2023 and Columbus gets Bedard. Doh!

I guess I just don't see the point of trading so much for a guy while we still suck, when we can get him for free in 2 years when we're getting good. 

Yes, but with the new rules we cannot win a top 3 two years in a row. So if we win #1 OA next year, we get Wright and the best CBJ can get in 23 is 4th. IF we get anything less than #1 OA in 22, then the 23 becomes lottery protected and we could possibly bet a top 10 in 22 and win the the #1 OA in 23...or not win either of them with our luck.

 

I love that all these RFA's are siging for less than $5M AAV, that should keep Bertuzzi and Vrana under $5M for us as well.

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I think the argument would be that we could get better, sooner, with Werenski on the team and under contract. Plus, a lot can change in two years. Say he gets traded to Colorado or something and loves it there, then we're screwed. If he's available now there's a good argument to trade for him and extend him so that he doesn't get the taste of another team.

That said, I've argued in the past for pursuing him in free agency so I don't think you're way off base here either.

With our D pipeline, I wouldn't really say we're screwed. I guess I feel we're still to center depth-starved for such a trade to make sense right now. If it was Bert going the other way, I'd see it differently, as it's easy to see Bert as a guy who is probably a little too old for his style of play to fit in the rebuild timeline.

I'd like to see what Zadina amounts to. If he can break out a little bit on offense, he will have more value than many of our current wingers. I also think 2023 is too soon to be trading first round picks. That is something that should only happen when flirting with cup contention. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

16 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

You know what we could do to even sweetin the deal more? With that lottery protected 2023 1st, we could put in a clause that IF we win the 1st overall in 2022, the lottery protection for 2023 goes away. Once we get Shane Wright, is doesn't matter for 2023, they can have whatever we get then.

to DET : Zach Werenski

to CBJ : Filip Zadina, Jared McIsaac, 2022 2nd round pick, 2023 1st rnd conditional pick (lottery protected unless Detroit wins #1 OA in 2022)

You could do this, but I don't think it's necessary to protect the 2023 pick at all. Presumably if you're adding Seider, Werenski, Raymond, and Berggren over the next two years, plus your growth from guys like Veleno and Rasmussen, plus any other trades/ufa signings, you're going to be good enough to not worry too much about winning the lottery. I think Columbus pulls the trigger on this without any protections on the 1st. I also think they probably do it without the 2nd as well.

[marcaractac 3,963]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Yes, but with the new rules we cannot win a top 3 two years in a row. So if we win #1 OA next year, we get Wright and the best CBJ can get in 23 is 4th. IF we get anything less than #1 OA in 22, then the 23 becomes lottery protected and we could possibly bet a top 10 in 22 and win the the #1 OA in 23...or not win either of them with our luck.

I'd still take a #4 pick + Zadina over Werenski. I just feel this is a move you make when you're a really good team with a hole in the top 4. Not when your roster is littered with them. 

[LeftWinger 4,961]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You could do this, but I don't think it's necessary to protect the 2023 pick at all. Presumably if you're adding Seider, Werenski, Raymond, and Berggren over the next two years, plus your growth from guys like Veleno and Rasmussen, plus any other trades/ufa signings, you're going to be good enough to not worry too much about winning the lottery. I think Columbus pulls the trigger on this without any protections on the 1st. I also think they probably do it without the 2nd as well.

You could always do what Ottawa did in the Karlsson deal as well. 2022 1st round protected to a 2023 1st. That way if we were a lottery team in 2022, they'd get the 2023 no matter what. 

@marcaractac Also, ya, if they'd take Bertuzzi instead of Zadina, I'm cool with that too! 

[marcaractac 3,963]

Just now, LeftWinger said:

You could always do what Ottawa did in the Karlsson deal as well. 2022 1st round protected to a 2023 1st. That way if we were a lottery team in 2022, they'd get the 2023 no matter what. 

@marcaractac Also, ya, if they'd take Bertuzzi instead of Zadina, I'm cool with that too! 

Though I'd rather see Bert dealt to a team like LA for a first. A team that clearly wants to win now, but is also capable of a bottom 10 finish. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, marcaractac said:

With our D pipeline, I wouldn't really say we're screwed. I guess I feel we're still to center depth-starved for such a trade to make sense right now. If it was Bert going the other way, I'd see it differently, as it's easy to see Bert as a guy who is probably a little too old for his style of play to fit in the rebuild timeline.

I'd like to see what Zadina amounts to. If he can break out a little bit on offense, he will have more value than many of our current wingers. I also think 2023 is too soon to be trading first round picks. That is something that should only happen when flirting with cup contention. 

I meant "screwed" in the sense that we'd have missed our opportunity to land Werenski. Not "screwed" in the sense that we'd be f*cked on left side defense.

I don't mind Zadina. I definitely don't think he's someone I'd be looking to trade. I just think that we're pretty heavy with left shooting "skill" wingers and I don't think Zadina is better than Vrana now and I also don't think it's unreasonable to think Raymond and maybe Berggren will pass him on the depth chart as well. As far as trading 1st rounders I tend to disagree with you on this. Assuming we improve over the next two years our 2023 1st probably lands somewhere in the 12-20 range. I trade that pick all day long for a 24 year old top pair defender.

 

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I mean, IF we acquired Werenski, and then did the whole Cap Dump thing for Tampa with Tyler Johnson PLUS, with the players we've acquired going back to Vrana, I don't think we'd have to worry about a 1st being protected. With the G upgrade, D upgrade and the FWD upgrade, I do believe this team makes the playoffs this year. Even with giving away Bertuzzi. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

5 years, 9.5 AVV for Ovie

[LeftWinger 4,961]

14 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

5 years, 9.5 AVV for Ovie

That leaves them $4M-ish in cap and no goalie's signed. I mean I know samsonov will be re-signed, but he might take $3M to $3.5M of that.

I am just waiting for Yzerman to strike. He has to have the blockbuster ready to go!

BTW:

 

 

...this RFA signing hurts. I would've liked to see all RFA's stay under $5M so our guys don't get too cash happy.

Edited July 27, 2021 by LeftWinger

[mackel 681]

7 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

 

So Carolina had Ned + Mrazek

And they were like nah... Bernier + Raanta

Lateral move...  I like us acquiring Ned, but he's a big gamble... he could return to earth after one breakout season.

[marcaractac 3,963]

3 minutes ago, mackel said:

Lateral move...  I like us acquiring Ned, but he's a big gamble... he could return to earth after one breakout season.

or he'll just get injured again

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Holtby on waivers for buyout...what is happening in this NHL world today? I can see him being hotly pursued by Vegas on the cheap! (or maybe back to Washington league min.)

[AtlantaHotWings 987]

2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

TRUDEAU JOINS CHOIR BLASTING MONTREAL FOR MAILLOUX SELECTION

 

I have a hard time with this pile on. The kid admitted a mistake he has paid for it, he has done the time etc. We give everyone else a break/second chance. That CNN guy that was jacking off on Zoom in front of colleagues is back on the air. Yet this 17/18 old kid with his whole life/career who said he did wrong doesn't catch a break? I think Marc choosing him was huge and I think the kid is going to be Sunday School clean for a long time and bust his ass to reward the faith in him. Plus Habs will have someone working with him etc. 

[amato 3,210]

54 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

5 years, 9.5 AVV for Ovie

More term than expected for sure. He's coming for that Gretzky record. 

[LeftWinger 4,961]

30 minutes ago, amato said:

More term than expected for sure. He's coming for that Gretzky record. 

1,000,000% guarantee when/if Ovi hits 895, all of Canada and the Gretzky slappies will be saying he didn't break the record because of Wayne's 46 G's in the WHA. Even though they all won't give Howe his G credit for his WHA goals to put him back on top. The rules don't apply when talking about Canada's golden boy. You either count them for all players or none. But Canada will never admit that a player is/was better then Wayne Gretzky.

For the record, IF we're talking career Professional (NHL/WHA) goals:

Howe : 975

Gretzky : 940

...all that being said, Ovi would have to score 33 goals per season for the next 5 years in order to reach 895.

Edited July 27, 2021 by LeftWinger

[kipwinger 8,524]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

1,000,000% guarantee when/if Ovi hits 895, all of Canada and the Gretzky slappies will be saying he didn't break the record because of Wayne's 46 G's in the WHA. Even though they all won't give Howe his G credit for his WHA goals to put him back on top. The rules don't apply when talking about Canada's golden boy. You either count them for all players or none. But Canada will never admit that a player is/was better then Wayne Gretzky.

For the record, IF we're talking career Professional (NHL/WHA) goals:

Howe : 975

Gretzky : 940

Ovie missed almost 2 full seasons of prime/semi-prime scoring because of lockouts and covid. Any Wayniacs that wanna count his 46 will have to account for that. Give Ovie two full seasons of scoring and he's probably got 100 more goals right now and nobody would be talking about IF he breaks the record, but when. Greatest goal scorer the game has ever seen.

[marcaractac 3,963]

6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

1,000,000% guarantee when/if Ovi hits 895, all of Canada and the Gretzky slappies will be saying he didn't break the record because of Wayne's 46 G's in the WHA. Even though they all won't give Howe his G credit for his WHA goals to put him back on top. The rules don't apply when talking about Canada's golden boy. You either count them for all players or none. But Canada will never admit that a player is/was better then Wayne Gretzky.

For the record, IF we're talking career Professional (NHL/WHA) goals:

Howe : 975

Gretzky : 940

As a Canadian, if any idiots cry about the WHA, throw the lockout lost season, the lockout shortened season, the COVID shortened seasons right back at them. Ovie lost about 100 goals on that alone (based on career scoring rate).

[LeftWinger 4,961]

5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Business idea: Re-sign Bobby Ryan. Sign Perry. Sign Getzlaf.

I mentioned that awhile ago when someone, somewhere said that Yzerman could sign Getzlaf for a year to mentor the yoots. That would be hilarious!

Edited July 27, 2021 by LeftWinger