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Yesterday... Howard 17 saves on 21 shots...lost the game...4-3...only got a point because of miraculous goal by Pavs at the end. Today... Ozzie 21 saves on 25 shots...lost the game...4-3...faced tons of odd man rushes... Yesterday Howard...playing with a rested team at home Today Ozzie...Playing with a tired team on the road... Looks like they both sucked to me...looks like the team played flat and uninspired in both games to me... Yet nobody cares Howard sucked yesterday...But people are saying that Ozzie "isn't supporting this team" or "isn't putting in a good effort" or "shouldn't be back next year" How about as a team they put forth minimal effort 2 nights in a row, and faced teams that wanted to win more and showed it. How about both goalies had bad games? And the team had bad games? Before chastising Ozzie for today, look at Howie's stats yesterday...with the rested team...at home...then look at Ozzie's stats today...(though not good he doesn't deserve the horse s*** people throw at him) Support both goaltenders...they are both very talented. Howard is 26, Ozzie is 37. Its a changing of the guard, which is a well timed. But without Ozzie, Howard wouldn't be as good as Howard is this season. Keep that in mind folks. Ozzie is to Howard what Vernon was to Ozzie.

Superhot Vancouver? Didn't they just get shelled 8-3? Chicago who have a starting goalies worse than our backup? Yes, very frightening.

Everyone knows this is about Osgood's performance tonight. If he had done fine today there would not have been a thread about how Osgood is 2-6-2 in his last ten. No ******* chance.

I'm not shocked. It was a nothing game for Detroit. The Flyers are battling for a playoff spot and they showed it. I am glad Howard got some rest and will be glad if the Flyers make the playoffs so they can make things hell in the Eastern Conference for once. And the good news is Osgood didn't get pulled or let in 6+ goals. It was still a close game even with the softies and poor play of the team.

ok. I see what you're saying now. Yeah, I'd say Ozzy was overly aggressive on the shot. Not sure it would've mattered, but at least there would've been less of a gaping net for the goal. Like I said, there's some silver lining to me in that he recovered and made some big saves in the third. That's the first time I've seen that from him this season when he started that poorly. And the Wings need him to be stable as a backup for Howard, come playoff time and probably next season.

He has been a bright spot this season and is right up there with top veteran goalies in his stats. He changed a lot of peoples thoughts from the start of the season with his strong consistent play. To me he is the one who should win the Calder and should get into the top 3 in Vezina voting.

Zack Rambo? Wtf. My parents did NOT give me a name that cool.

I really wish Ericsson would have fought Carcillo. The Flyers had their way with us today and it showed. It was embarrassing as a fan to watch.

People keep saying that he doesnt need to play every darn game, in terms of games started he is 12th in the NHL. In terms of minutes played he is 12th in the NHL. He is the STARTING goalie, Osgood is the backup. All the other goalies with similar stats to Howard are getting the workload that he is. Its not unusual for a STARTING goalie to get that many starts. We are just used to have 2 goalies who were similar splitting time. This season we have one goalie who is heads and shoulders above the other and is getting full time starter minutes.

One thing's for sure, I don't get that knot in my stomach whenever the opposition gets a shot on net when Howard's in.

Me a couple of weeks ago. Wearing my Sawchuk shirt!

His attraction to these forums was the only negative byproduct of the '08 Cup victory.

He should be on the bench with the team in my opinion, Ozzie's backup is always on the bench, supporting the team and showing leadership. With all the Rings he has, he should be kicking Bertuzzi's ass on the bench whenever he makes a bad pass and spurring on any other guy who doesn't have a ring.

I think mindfly wants to give Carman a run for the highest negative rating.

That's right. Instead of argue the post, go after the poster. That brings an intellectual, civil discussion to the table.

Did Osgood punch your mother or something? Because you seriously seem to have a lot of vitriol toward the guy and anyone who isn't ready to throw Osgood to the wolves.

the only bad goal he let in was the first one. A 4 on 2 is unacceptable and the goalie is not at fault... He played the the shooter, but the shooter had 3 passing options and picked the right one... it is completely unreasonable to blame him for that goal. The second and third goal were left to players all alone in the slot... neither of those were his fault. Blaming Ozzy for this loss is unfair... the team played bad and it cost them.

They played just as few "like they should" in the regular season last year... and we ended up in Game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. This team will be fine, your ridiculous pessimism aside.

That makes no sense. If Ozzy plays square on the player in the middle, he is cheating and leaving the net open for the puck carrier. He has to respect the shot but be ready for the pass. Osgood was too aggressive on the shot, but Kronwall and Ericsson also misplayed it badly. Then there's also the point that it was a friggin 4 on 2.

It's always been funny how your overly-optimistic view of the Wings doesn't include Osgood. Nothing approaches game conditions. Ozzy was rusty. He started awful, but got better, and made a few big saves in the third. Osgood played the shot on the 4 on 2, which is what he's supposed to do. Why no comments about Bert's bad decision, Kronwall's awful job playing the pass, and Ericsson trying to cover two Flyers at once and ended up covering neither? Or Lebda deciding to help out Stuart by having them both cover the same man, leaving the entire left side of the ice open? The Wings played below par, including Osgood. But I was surprised at how good he looked in the third. That was about the best to be hoped for after the awful start.

You cant be serious, Howard is playing close to Vezina finalist level. Ozzie is almost an automatic 3+ goal a game at this point and every time he gets a chance he does bad. Ozzie has deserved nothing more than he has gotten this season. Ozzie also followed up those games you mentioned by allowing 5 goals, to Toronto. Then Howard came in and won 3 games in a row, and after his next loss they gave Ozzie another chance. They didnt shut down Ozzie at that point. Ozzie then got 3 of the next 5 starts, losing all 3, 2 in regulation. And the 2 games Howard played in that stretch he won 1 and lost the other while allowing only 2 goals. Howard started heating up at this point and Ozzie lost every game he started almost. Howard won the job outright and that is why Ozzie got shut down. And he then basically lost every opportunity he had since then, so he has done nothing to show Babcock he deserves more time.

You are nitpicking his play a lot. Howard is giving the team a great chance to win every game and is making key saves. That's all that matters to me. Goaltending is a position where the best goalies in the world can look super-human one night, and god awful the next. I'm completely happy with how consistent Howard has been this season, especially considering how to team has been up and down. No one knows how is he going to play in the playoffs, but every indication that you can document seems to be that he'll do well. I'd say goaltending isn't the main issue facing us in the playoffs, our best players just can't seem to play a complete game and we are not overly physical. This concerns me more than seeing Jimmy or Ozzy in net.

What is MM? Millimillion?

HE'S A WITCH!! BURRNNN HIMMM!!!

If Winnipeg were to get an NHL team, be it the Coyotes, another team moving, or an expansion team, they would likely have to either build a new arena or expand the MTS centre, where the Manitoba Moose currently play. Speaking of the Moose, did you know they only draw 53% of capacity and are second in attendance in the AHL, with Hershey ahead by a wide margin? In comparison, Grand Rapids draws 64% of capacity. Yes, it's a much smaller arena, but in raw numbers it's 1,003 seats sold per game. Can Winnipeg truly support an NHL team? Due to the deals Phoenix has been running for many of their seats, Manitoba's ticket prices are not much different than Phoenix's. Phoenix has averaged about 4,000 more fans per game, and has averaged 67% capacity. Is Winnipeg truly that much better an NHL market than Phoenix? Past numbers and recent numbers seem to suggest it's questionable at best. Also, 2002-03 was the last season until this year that Phoenix averaged fewer than 14,800 fans per game in a season, a mark I don't believe the Jets ever actually cleared as a season average. So no, this year doesn't prove that hockey doesn't belong in Phoenix any more than 1995-96 proved that Jim Carey was a HHOF-worthy goaltender.