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That or he badly misread the situation. Either way it's not good. Someone should have had a sense of how the owners felt, many that they had already offered too much, so even if the NHLPA wasn't going to accept that offer outright, that is should have been handled more delicately than it was. Like maybe more conversation about the contracting issues instead of making an outright proposal that doesn't include what the owners want. Either way, the fact that both sides got this close and it fell apart over contract issues takes it to a new level of idiocy, and the idiocy level was already extremely high.

I don't think we ever really disagreed, we just misinterpreted what the other said EDIT: or as the nhl/pa would say we were very close to a deal, but we differed on a few key issues which has caused us to break off talks for the next month

tsn guys talking about where talks go from here

Bettman and D. Fehr's careers should be OFF the table. I will never understand the take my toys and go home mentality. So, because the progress they made didn't lead to a deal, they should scorch the earth and set negotiations and any leftover good will back to square one? There is a clear absence of common sense in that room...

I agree with you that they could easily make due with 10% variance, however I think it's a bit of a misnomer to suggest that "Their make whole concessions were contingent on getting every contracting issue they wanted". They didn't get everything they wanted, they already conceded (without caveats) on arbitration, entry level contracts, and age requirements for free agency. The point of revenue sharing IS to make the league more competitive, which is why Phoenix and New Jersey (both teams that lose money) were in the conference finals last year. The players AND the league want revenue sharing for the same reason you say you do...because it makes more teams more competitive. Anything else?

I'm sick and tired of this false argument. The players favor supporting struggling teams too. Your assertion that revenue sharing is only favored by the league and Bettman is demonstrably false. Here's a quote from the NHLPA's website. I've gone ahead and bolded the parts that prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what you said is either intentionally misleading or unintentionally misguided. Either way, you're dead f'ing wrong. "Meaningful revenue sharing is an essential component of any successful league. It is not a distraction; it is the heart of the issue. After seven straight seasons of record revenue, it’s clear that if the NHL has a problem, it is not a revenue issue, but rather a revenue disparity issue. The owners’ revenue sharing proposal does increase to revenue sharing somewhat, but every dollar of revenue sharing is paid for by player salary reductions; the higher income clubs contribute nothing on their own. The Players’ propose that they partner with the high-income teams to provide targeted funding for the distressed teams and owners. But the players won’t and shouldn’t have to do this alone. The higher income teams need to share far more with the lower revenue teams. The Players will do their part; will the owners?"

Not saying the Fehr's are not driving the bus the wrong way down the interstate, but AFAIK this is no longer about money. It's about contracting rights.

Don't go making excuses for the players, both Daly and Bettman expressly stated that the 300 million in make whole was contingent upon either accepting or rejecting the contract and cba lengths. They didn't accept. The owners walked. It's not like they didn't know, Fehr thought he smelled blood and over played his hand. Don't go making it seem as if they players had no idea that one was contingent on the other, they did.

After reading/watching/following (twitter/facebook/etc...) everything that I possibly can get access to, I'm siding with the owners. I guess more specifically, I'm siding against the Fehr brothers. I think they are doing a disservice to the NHLPA by giving them a false sense of bargaining power in this negotiation. Although both sides can say what they want, I believe the owners compromised on a few of the NHLPA "top priority" issues that they previously had refused to, in an effort to display some good will toward the players and get a deal done. However, the owners did express that just as the players had "top priority issues", so did the owners. The owners compromised and I truly believe the Fehr brothers took this not as good will, but weakness on the part of the owners....which led to them cheer lead to the players that there is an even better deal to be had...."we've got em on the ropes boys!!" These owners have put millions and billions of THEIR OWN MONEY into purchasing/maintaining their respective clubs. Huge money that was made in another industries. Do you think they are going to let the Fehr brothers "pull punches" in the waning hours when a deal was very likely headed to be signed?? I don't think Fehr have installed a true sense of reality into the players. It may and should be construed as fear. Fear of what?....Fear that they really are replaceable. Fear that, in reality, a lot of these players don't have a lot of attractive options beyond the NHL. You worked your whole life to play in the NHL and now....you play in AHL....you play in Europe? Second rate league, half way around the world from your home...with sub par accommodations (some say dangerous accommodations...look at just the travel accommodations alone and the tragedy of the plane crash that took our former coach BC and so many other players lives). A league that puts on average 1/2 of the people in the seats night after night. Fear that for a lot of these guys without hockey they'd be back working the family farm in Manitoba. How much does that pay?? So let's get real players. You are paid a huge salary under the last CBA and any future agreement. You are going to make a TON of money for playing a GAME. Mr. Player, what did you contribute to make the whole Detroit Red Wings enterprise work?? Your 3rd line play and constant injuries after being left for dead by the entire NHL and given one last chance with the Wings?? (sorry Dan Cleary, but your tweets and rhetoric have gotten under my skin). A big goal in a playoff game?? An NOW YOUR ENTITLED to the revenues and business compromising advantages of the entire business?? Get real. Players; we wear your jerseys and have unwavering support for you....and you can't even have our backs as fans? "Well look at how much money the owners are making....we want some of it for ourselves"....I say...GET REAL, WHAT OTHER BUSINESS LETS YOU LOOK AT THE BALANCE SHEET AND START MAKING DEMANDS OF YOUR OWNER ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT!! They paid hundreds of millions of their dollars to own the business and with that, the risk of owning and NHL team. They earned that right to run their business. You earn your right to wear the jersey (Winged Wheel) and you earn your right to more playing time and potentially a salary raise. You don't do anything but play hockey and know nothing to very little about running a business. So Dan Cleary....go back to Newfoundland and earn your living back there...go play in Europe year after year if you don't like it...maybe try real estate. I realize that might screw up your 3 golf rounds a week at Oakland HIlls (true), but hey, we should be falling all over you right....YOUR DAN CLEARY!!! A bit aggravated this morning. As a fan who loves this game and have supported this game and players for 35 years...players need to fire Fehr and start making rational/reality for themselves. Decisions for the fairness of yourselves as millionaires playing a game, and for the fans who you all claim you "can't thank enough" (excerpt from any player interview regarding the fans).

Donald Fehr in a rare candid photo from his presser yesterday.

This really is the most embarrassing negotiation session in the history of pro sports. Fehr and Bettman are out of the room, and progress is made. They come back in, and it all comes crashing down. Both these asshats need to be fired. There is no defending the NHL or NHLPA in these negotiations. There is no defense for greed. There is no defense for refusing to negotiate in good faith. There is no defense for stall tactics There is no defense for pontificating to the media after you don't get your way There is no defense for leaving when your side doesn't get what they want There is no defense for not taking calls from the other side, and there is no defense for leaving a voicemail message turning down a deal Fans have to unite at this stage and be sure to speak with their wallets when the NHL does come back. I am not spending any money on NHL tickets or merchandise for a long time. Both sides can go f*** themselves.

I agree with you, but I don't think throwing a temper tantrum and walking away was the right move, they should have said if you want 8 year deals and an 8 year cba then you get $240million on the make whole instead of 300

No, I do understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is...if the owners said they would give 300 million in make whole, under the condition that the players accept the contracts length and cba length provisions, and the players did not accept those provisions, then you definitely pull the 300 million. The owners made one contingent on the other, and when that wasn't accepted, they pulled their offer. I'm with you though, I don't care who's right, I want hockey. But when I see an offer that seems very fair to me, turned down because of something that almost all fans and owners want anyway (shorter contracts and longer cba), it's hard not to be pissed off at the union.

fehr really messed up today and it may cost the players a ton of money. owners made it clear that they didn't want him in the room today but he insisted on being in there and he wanted mediators there as well. all this despite the fact that significant progress was made the last 2 days without him and bettman in there (i don't think that's a coincidence). then 2 hrs later fehr proclaims to the media that this lockout is essentially over, only to have it blow up in his face a few minutes later on live tv. All indications pointed to a lot of players wanting to put the deal that the owners tabled to the entire pa for a vote but fehr advised against it. that said the owners are being equally stupid with their take it or leave it approach to negotiating. there was no reason bettman had to come out and take everything off the table today. does anyone truly believe it's off the table anyways? I also don't like how the owners and bettman appear to have refused to start up negotiations again. i guess they are still too busy having their little hissy fits my fear now is what cherry brought up if that's the case and jacobs is back in control, this season is toast. but the bottom line is both sides hate each other with a burning passion and both sides are acting like morons and until that changes, no season will be played

The fans have a right to be furious. I'm just about done with this gong show. I'm going to see the Rampage and Barons play on Sunday. Screw the NHL. I'll find other ways to fill my time and empty my wallet.

oh boy if this is the attitude of the players and fehr, they are going to be in for a rude awakening. these nhl owners are a different breed than other pro sports owners

That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal. Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, so the league bolts again. Could it possibly be true they rejected the offer via voicemail?? But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9? And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast. Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was.

You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round round round...

My nightmares.

During the last lockout, there were moments when it looked like the season was saved, and then nothing happened. I expect as much with these idiots. This league is more inept than the XFL.

either fehr pissed of the moderates owners so much that these negotiations are going back into the hands of the hardliners or fehr really put some pr spin on his proposal.

unbelievable. I've seen thirteen year olds have more mature and productive communication than this.

Fife?

Yeah, Cory Emmerton could probably put up 20 points playing 70 games in the Swiss league instead of the 10 he put up last year. So does anyone else think that the Swiss league took their inspiration for the flaming helmet from the NBA Jam video game series?

I rather Wings vs Bruins than Wings vs Leafs.