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Kind of silly to be upset over this. It's a backup role. So what if there were a small handful of slightly better goalies? They aren't THAT much better, and Gus is a known quantity with an establishes relationship with the team. It's really a non-issue. I would've liked to have had Mrazek as the backup but its pretty hard to get upset over Gus coming back.

You're my boy!! Welcome aboard the U.S.S. Positivity. I'll be your Captain. We're currently sailing though some choppy waters over the next two weeks of our voyage. Please keep your life-preservers handy. Ahhh... the good old strawman. He's a sight for sore eyes on these forums. He didn't strawman your position. He clearly broke down your position into A) You wanna win the cup every year... and he said that isn't very realistic. He then went on to say that in his opinion, B) he disagrees that the team is not taking steps towards that goal because he thinks the team is trending upwards not downwards. ...and then went on to give his opinion. He's also gone on to state your overall position very plainly. You're not as they say, "A glass half-full type of guy" ...and that's okay. Own it, FFS. It's not as if you're not making salient points, ShamAn*. You just have to understand that while everyone wants to win or contend for the Cup every year. Not everyone is going to be as down or as pessimistic about the future as you seem to be. ...and that's okay too. ...just stop pretending that you're not Debbie Downer. There might be a plan. Hell, maybe Holland finally has a plan A, B, and C. As for us, all of us here. Yeah. We're all grasping at straws. Desperately. Finally, and this goes for ALL OF YOU! Yes, we say we should wait for FA and the draft and etc. because well, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO! THAT'S THE WAY THE LEAGUE WORKS!!! ...or would you rather us throw fifth rounders at Dan Boyle for no good reason. EDIT: Sorry, Shaman. For a second I spelled your handle like you're a Scottish dance band from the nineties.

Ok...I'm officially ready for July 1, and beyond.

While some of that may be true, there's a couple things right now that I think work to change that. 1. The emergence of several kids who carried us has (hopefully) shown KH that some of these guys can be slotted in and it's not all about veterans anymore 2. We've got a good amount of cap space for the first time in I can't remember 3. We've also got a gluttony of good, mid level prospects who we could potentially package to get something decent in return. While the recent history might suggest otherwise, I think KH will do something decent this offseason.

Bottom line, if not for Gus we don't make the playoffs. Good signing, Mrazek will be ready to steal the starters job after this coming season after another year in the minors.

The odds of getting a better back-up willing to take a 1 year deal at all are pretty slim. So even though I agree he wouldn't have done any better in Free Agency, I don't think the Wings could have done better on a 1 year back-up. Gustavsson isn't anything special but he's more than good enough to play 20 games next year which is really all we need him for. Howard returning to form is far more important than any of the potential options as the #2 guy.

I think this will be like the maltby deal. I can't see him wanting to play in the ahl. And if he does play on the wings then it will be because he earned it. Maybe he busts his ass in the offseason and gets in beast mode for one last hoorah. Or maybe his body can't do what his mind wants to and he realizes it and hangs em up. His knees are pretty much shot.

Shouldn't we chant Holland sucks instead? Cleary is just doing what he loves. Holland is the one enabling that unfortunate opportunity to occur.

We were living this: Thanks, Vladinator! Miss you....

There are 29 other teams that would take him in an instant. It's easier to make the argument that he's the greatest GM in the history of the sport than it is to argue he's in the bottom 5 in the league.

Not the assistant I was hoping would depart this off season. Gonna be interesting to see who comes and replaces him. Holland should phone up #5 and see if he wants to coach our defence

If the Wings show enough loyalty to sign Danny ******* Cleary....Z is a lifetime Wing end of story. You don't trade guys like that anyways.

Yes...But, why choose 4 words out of 80 to shorten? We've read this much already....It just seems a little ridiculous I guess

Like I said I've got mixed feelings about him, and it usually comes down to how I'm conflicted about his contract and how effective he'll be near the end of it. I just don't by into the argument that when he actually does produce, and in bunches, it's meaningless. He definitely didn't step up in the playoffs when we really needed him (though to be fair I'd say no one really did). But his hot streaks can and have turned the tide of some games. Just call me confused about this whole "he only scores during blowouts" thing until I see the numbers that indicate that. Ps. Sorry that's my last post on Franzen in this thread, realized I've deviated from the topic. And on the topic I'm alright with the Tootoo buyout since a compliance buyout can't be used for Kindl.

pretty cheap cap hit: check one year contract: check solid enough history between the pipes to show he can stop the puck when needed: check significant history of injury, so Mrazek gets plenty of time to play in the NHL: check I can dig it, although I gotta say after watching Gus play with us and seeing how often he loses sight of the puck, or how frequently it slips behind him, or how regularly he is caught out of position, I'm still baffled to this day how he puts up the numbers he has.

This is perfect IMO. When his inevitable injuries occur Mrazek will get the call and get some more nhl experience, but will still get a lot more time playing with the Griffins. Win win. I would've been a little bummed if it was anything more than 1 year but I think this is ideal.

Ha. I did not catch the sarcasm, and I had just read through around twenty pages of "Holland sucks, fire him. Babcock is a bad coach, Blahblahblahblah franzen, blahblahblah buyout" with a severely smaller number of decent posts. Hahaha.

I keep seeing that argument against Franzen about him being hot in meaningless moments, but I'm not sure where it came from. I remember thinking last season when he was red hot "thank god Franzen is scoring". I don't have the numbers to back this statement up but I remember having the thought that his hot streak last season was clutch. Then when he slowed down Nyquist rocketed forward. My point is I just don't know of "he scores in meaningless situations" really has any validity. If someone has the numbers that say otherwise that's cool, I'll accept that. My feelings on Franzen are mixed, I'm definitely not trying to blindly defend him.

Gus was a great back up this year. anyone who says otherwise is leftwinger

I watched all 82 Red Wings games last season and the funny thing is my jaw dropped when I saw Cleary played 52 games this season. If I would have guess i would have said around 25. That's how unmemorable he was last season. He was close to literally doing nothing for us offensively.

Because he punches guys. The argument goes something like this: We should get Shawn Thornton because he's a fighter and we need that on our team. We need it on our team because we don't have it on our team currently. We don't currently have it on our team because we don't currently have Shawn Thornton. Hopefully that helps.

Can't wait for the "free Jurco!" movement to gain steam quickly when Cleary makes the team over Jurco in September. I don't even want to believe this is truly realistic, but after last season with Nyquist...

Are you kidding me? When will this rigamarole end? Probably with Holland...

RYAN: "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." I can do those things, because I'm not a hero, not like Duchy. I lost the Minnesota series. That's what I can be. GENERAL MANAGER JOE SAKIC: No, you can't! You're not! RYAN: I'm whatever Denver needs me to be. Call it in. GENERAL MANAGER JOE SAKIC: They'll hunt you. RYAN: You'll hunt me. You'll condemn me, set the dogs on me. Because that's what needs to happen. Because sometimes the truth isn't good enough. Sometimes people deserve more. Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded. SAKIC'S SON: Ryan? Ryan! Why is he running, Dad? GENERAL MANAGER JOE SAKIC: Because we have to chase him. SAKIC'S SON: He didn't do anything wrong. GENERAL MANAGER JOE SAKIC: Because he's the hero Denver deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So, we'll hunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a two-way dynamo. A Lady Byng candidate. A Hard Day's Knight. SAKIC'S SON: That sounds like a lot of bulls***. GENERAL MANAGER JOE SAKIC: It is.

That's why no Cup win by the Wings will likely compare to the one in 1997 for me. After watching them through the 80s, to get so close then get crushed by the Devils in '95, it just felt like they were never going to win one. Thinking that Yzerman may become one of those great players who never get to hoist the Cup. It's what made that one so special.