Leaderboard

Goals Assists

I think its one thing to idly talk about tanking, but I think if we ever had a season where we tanked I think everyone be talking quite differently. I think the reaction would be: he has destroyed this proud organization, tarnished Illitch's legacy, wasted years of D and Z's career, etc. If we even missed the playoffs there would a big cry for Holland to be fired. Other effects of tanking: Babcock would probably leave for a team trying to win. Some players would probably ask for a trade. If you're complaining about UFAs not coming now, think about what it would be like if we finished last in the East. So, I know a high prospect would be attractive, but would lose so much in the process and be much farther from winning than we are now. Would it really set us up to win for a while? maybe if we got McDavid, but we would have to shed half the team to be that bad. We've lucked out and got at least one player that should have been a top pick in Mantha. I say luck, but Holland gets credit for discounting all of Mantha's detractors and recognizing a player open to bettering himself. Dekeyser choosing us was like a free 1st rounder. If you compare what we've added to the team in the way prospects to what Buffalo has by their recent tanking, and consider that we've kept our stars, does it really look like an attractive option?

Although I have not liked some of Hollands moves or non-moves over the years, some I can never ever let go of (Hossa), I think the track record over all speaks for itself. He is a pioneer IMO. Its been said numerous times before but we are frikkin spoiled. Completely spoiled rotten! We are lucky to have Holland, we are lucky to have Babcock, Extremely lucky to be owned by the Illitches, and we are lucky to have seen 23 straight years of playoffs (no matter how crappy the last few have been). There are plenty of team out there that would be thrilled to see their team make the post season and be BBQ'd in the first round just to see their team in a meaningful game. NONE of this happens without Holland! This team has lost some big time players in the past few years whose impact could never be measured in advance, we've lost how many man games to injuries?, Had how many rookie's? AND had quite a few crap roster moves/non-moves and yet 23 years and counting, a stocked cupboard of young talent and an extremely bright future that will NOT take us blowing balls at the bottom of the league for 5 years before we can start to bubble back to the top!!!! Holland is in uncharted waters and we will see how stealthy he is. Next up is to lock down Babs and DK, and he will locked them both for a good amount of time and watch as we begin to mature and compete again wityhout having to eat crap at the bottom for a while! Thanks Kenny! Fans need to realize that the days of Red WIngs sailing through to championships is long over and the next generation of Cup Champions in Detroit will be honed from within, won't dominate as before but will cut more evenly with 4 lines.

You seem to think that having a 4th line of enforcers makes you a "tough team". I can assure you it doesn't. Boston is considered tough because their best players either are very physical or play with an edge. (Chara, Lucic, Bergeron, Marchand) Nobody's talking about Boston being any weaker since they lost Thornton.

Short of trading Datsyuk Zetterberg Franzen Kronwall and Ericsson the Wings wouldn't be close to bad enough for a legit chance at the first overall pick

To preface my own point, none of us are actually in the room when an offer is made. So other then hearing rumors and speculation, none of know for sure what was offered or what was turned down. Rumor has it that Holland did try to sign some of these UFA's, but once the term/$ amount got ridiculous with the exception of Suter he walked away which I am personally extremely thankful for, even in the case of Suter (no thank you 14 years). Also, I don't get why people speak as if Holland hasn't gotten a UFA in years. The fact that he didn't sign Boyle, Niskanen, or Erhoff this season is not a big deal, and each player had his own reason of going where they did. Last year the top UFA's were LeCavalier, Iginla, Alfie, Fillpulla, Weiss, and Clarkson, and he signed Alfie and Weiss two of the biggest out there. I'm sure some people are reading this saying "you're saying those are big names lol" to which I respond "you're right, buts that free agency now". This years class was "headlined" by Niskanen and Stasny, middle of the road to good players being overpaid to contracts that teams are going to be looking to buy-out or trade away in a couple years (In the case of LeCavalier it didnt even take 1 full season). Unless you are giving a vet a couple years, anyone at the top of a UFA class is going to be overpaid.

Not sure what you're getting at here Frank with the first paragraph, but I'd be ashamed if I was a Penguins fan. And as a Wings fan I don't think I could ever condone that organizational strategy. The Peguins tanked on purpose for about 5 years, couldn't half-fill a rink to save their lives and were 99% on the move to Kansas City. Anaheim were the statistcal favourite to win the Crosby lottery but Pittsburgh got lucky. On top of all that, after being handed soooo much, they have one cup. They are a "win now" team that isn't winning. Not even close. No wonder Shero got fired. The Wings organizition and Holland still have high standards but they're not at the same stage from a franchize/legacy standpoint as the pens are.

My preference: Z - Pav - Jurco Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist Tatar - Sheahan - Alfie/Mantha Miller - Helm - Abby Kronwall - Smith DeKeyser - E KFQ - Marchenko/Ouellet

I understand that nobody is in the room, but you can't give the guy a pass on the bad because of it and only 'see' the good when someone signs. Ultimately, Holland's track record in FA signings isn't that good the last several years. List of Holland's big signings (~$2M+/year) since the last Cup: 08-09 - Marian Hossa (1yr - not re-signed) 09-10 - None 10-11 - None 11-12 - Ian White (2yrs - not re-signed) 12-13 - Jordin Tootoo (3yrs - compliance buy-out) 12-13 - Carlo Colaiacovo (2yrs - compliance buy-out) 13-14 - Daniel Alfredsson (1yr - not re-signed as yet) 13-14 - Stephen Weiss (5yrs - played 26 games and scored 4 pts in year 1) 14-15 - Kyle Quincey (2yrs for a player Detroit was ready to walk away from) The Suter/Parise snub was at least 'understandable' given the same money/term from Minnesota and the connection the players felt. Having Niskanen, Boyle, and Erhoff walk away from potentially more money in Detroit (in some reports) is more concerning. The fault isn't all on Holland, for sure, but top management should be looking in the mirror and trying to determine how to get better regardless of where you lay blame. And, as someone else points out, FA isn't the only key to success. You have to draft well, too. So how many top-6 forwards or top-4 defensemen has Holland picked up in the last six-seven drafts? 2008-09 - Gustav Nyquist 2009-10 - Tomas Tatar (maybe) 2010-11 - None 2011-12 - None 2012-13 - None 2013-14 - Anthony Mantha (projected) Drafts are much harder to judge especially for a draft-and-develop team like Detroit. The Wings do have a couple kids who still project well, too. But a lot don't. They are bottom-six / bottom pair grinders. It's drafting by a team/GM which relies on supplementing his home-grown talent with pick-of-the-litter FAs. You can't draft grinders and then not come through on the FAs... The Wings haven't been a team which settles for 'serviceable' over the past few years. Is that what Detroit is becoming?

They would fix the hole left by Lidstrom?......Really?

Dekeyser can take 2.5m on a short deal and Alfie can have an incentive-based contract (like Iginlas this past season) with a base of 1-1.5m plus bonuses. Definitely FAR from our worst nightmares...

I think Z-D-Alfie could be huge if they're healthy. The two kids and a mule line idea intrigues me, and it could actually spark Franzen. Kr, I get your point about pairing Ericsson with Kronwall and Smith with DeKeyser makes sense, and eventually I'd go that way as well, but I really liked the chemistry Smith was showing with Kronwall towards the end of last season, and having a vet with DeKeyser in case of a sophomore slump makes sense to me to at least start the season. On the plus side, I think the top four of Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, and DeKeyser would work well in any combo, and we may see that on the PP.

I'll pass on the Pens sloppy seconds

With Alfredsson... Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Alfredsson Nyquist - Franzen - Tatar Helm - Weiss - Sheahan Miller - Glendening - Abdelkader Cleary - Callahan That top line may be up there in age, but when healthy (and I expect a much healthier year out of all three) they would be extremely effective. I actually love Franzen playing center, that along with playing with two balls of energy is exactly what could get this old mule going. (Two Kids and a Mule Line?...) I realize having Weiss on the third line isn't exactly ideal, however, I do think this could possibly be one of the best third lines in the league... I really want Callahan to get action on the forth line, but who comes out? Glendening? And slot Abby in at center? Or move one of the three centers on the third line (Sheahan) down and move Abby up?... Without Alfredsson... Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Franzen Nyquist - Weiss - Tatar Helm - Sheahan - Abdelkader Miller - Glendening - Cleary Callahan - Andersson I don't like these lines nearly as much as the ones with Alfie on the team, but still not terrible. I still think it is very likely that Alfredsson comes back for one more season. Before anyone says it, no Jurco, Mantha, or Pulkkinen are not on my opening night roster. They are down where they should be, in the minors, getting huge minutes, playing in all situations, gaining experience and confidence before they make the Wings full time. Whether that's in November or to start the 2015-16 season depends on injuries and how well they do down in Grand Rapids... On Defense... Kronwall - Ericsson DeKeyser - Smith Quincey - Kindl Lashoff I still really like Kronwall and Ericsson paired together. I think they complement each other quite well. Same goes for DeKeyser and Smith. There are so many people swapping those pairs to have Kronwall - Smith and DeKeyser and Ericsson and I just don't get that. Why pair your two best offensive defensemen and your two best defensive defensemen? Why not balance them out with one of each?... If there is any way to trade Kindl away for a mid to late round draft pick, we do it and let one of the kids play on the third pairing.

Good move. I'm still not really sure what Holland could have done since 2009 to make things any better. We're rebuilding through the draft. With the Cap, and how over inflated the UFA market is, it's the way to go. We haven't missed out on a thing by not signing guys like Ehrhoff, Clarkson, and Wisniewski, or Suter or Parise to 13 years.

Rogaine.

So the colts losing the sexond best qb in football to injury had nothing to do with why they were bad. Teams have rebuilds like buffalo but even if they're bad I wouldn't consider it tanking. No coach or players would ever intentionally lose.

I wish the bucket would have been filled with something else

1. Helm is our fastest forward and probably the best defensively outside of Datsyuk and Zberg. To not play him at Center would be wasting his talents. From what I understand Sheahan is a natural LW. Helm is also regarded as one of the better 3rd line C's in the entire league. Playing him on the 4th, is again wasting his talents. I wouldn't play Datsyuk on the 2nd just because he was injured last year. 2. I'll do anything to keep Abdelkader out of the top 6. But yes, we have no one more else suited for a top 6 role than Nyquist or Tatar. 3. Cleary would be scratched in my first. Your bit about Weiss being #2 no matter what simply isn't the case though, and is not at all how the Wings roll. Babs demoted him to 4th line C very quickly last year when he wasn't performing. The same will happen again if he doesn't show up.

I agree we all ready have a logjam at forward let him play all year in the ahl and if he lights it up...nhl in 15

"Tanking" implies losing on purpose. Whether it's players underperforming, coaches using the wrong players or strategies, or management making moves to make the team worse, it's done with the intent of finishing lower in the standings and getting a higher draft pick. Draft lotteries were invented to reduce the chances of this strategy working. It was done more often in other sports, where high draft picks almost always become impact players right away. The Indianapolis Colts' "Suck for Luck" season is one of the most recent examples. The Red Wings did not tank to get Steve Yzerman, and there are two obvious reasons why: 1, the Wings had been terrible for almost two decades, making the playoffs twice in 17 years and only winning one series. They didn't lose on purpose in "82-'83, they just couldn't win. 2, the Wings were heavily targeting local product Pat LaFontaine with the #4 pick, but he went #3 to the Islanders. Yzerman was the consolation prize. Tanking has been around for much longer than salary caps. I think it's tougher to do today, between the cap and roster/player movement limitations. Also, I think your "ready age" numbers are considerably off. http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis

Dan Cleary accepted the challenge. I like that he put up the info for donating online. I haven't seen anyone do that yet.

This is gonna be good.

Screw the haters lol... Good deal... Babs you are next

He plays for the Dertrert Rerd Werngs