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KHL should've just shipped him off to North America as punishment. The NHL isn't the rough and tumble league it once was, but I can easily name you 50 NHLers off the top of my head who would kick the s*** out of this guy.

Offensive players like Smith and Jurco are asked to play defensive games, defensive players like Helm, Abdelkader, and Dekeyser are given offensive roles. But when the offensive guys don't get a shot and don't produce it's all their fault and the coaches know better than fans.

If I recall, when he was in the lineup, Smith did very well for himself last season. If we aren't getting a dman, I say put Smith on the top pair with DD. Jurco needs to be used correctly. He is an offensive threat. But not on the 4th line with Miller and Glendening. When he was with Sheahan and Tatar he did very well. I'd love to see a line of JURCO-AA-MANTHA. Shhhhhhhhhh!

So if a guy like Rafi Torres did that to Dylan Larkin and knocked him out indefinitely with a concussion, you wouldn't care and would be against a suspension?

Lol. If I went through the last 500 GDTs (I'm not even exaggerating it's that sad), I'd probably find a million posts of you doing the same exact thing. Practice what you preach. And from what I've seen, a lot of people have actually suggested their ideal line-ups and direction they would like out of the team.

We're calling Jurco and Smith offensive guys now? Based on what? Everyone is so good at pointing out the problems with the team without providing any better solution We can't score so play Smith and Jurco more who also can't score... Rock solid logic

That would mean Holland actually making a trade

I know most people don't like this idea. But with larkin being so young and already a top 6 center, and nielson locked up long term, why not trade aa in a package for a dman?

Not lack of skill in the sense that he couldn't potentially be better, or do more if given more of an opportunity. But it is lack of skill in the sense that he's just not better than the guys who have played above him. Helm and Sheahan are both better offensively than Jurco, as well as better all-around. Everyone else that's played above him is far better offensively. I'm saying that hasn't happened at all. For one, he went from being a decent-but-hardly-exceptional highly skilled goal scorer in the QMJHL, to a mediocre scorer in the AHL for a year, then a pretty good scorer in the AHL the next year, to a mediocre scorer in the NHL. Funny to see you of all people talking about junior scoring as if it translates to the NHL. He may get stuck playing with defensive players sometimes, but he's not used in the same way at all. He wasn't given near the same defensive responsibility that Glendening, Miller, and Andersson got. And though I've said this often enough to doubt that anyone will pay attention, he spent a lot of time this season playing with players at least as or more skilled than he is. 207 combined minutes with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Nyquist, Tatar, and Larkin. 262 combined minutes with Richards, Helm, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, and AA. 272 combined with Andersson, Miller, and Glendening. Close to two thirds of his total ice time with at least one somewhat skilled player.

Highly skilled goal scorer in the AHL maybe lol. Oh but that's what the coaches want and their word is a gold mine. None of us have any idea what we're talking about. We just read WIIM and are clueless about hockey. Clearly what Blashill did was the recipe for success. Dump and chase all day baby that's where it's at, just look at the last 7 years of Stanley cup winners. Wait a minute lol.. LA, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston... Well teams are all ranked 1-4 in possession that DON'T rely on dump and chase... Whoops!

BS. No one is trying to turn Jurco into a grinder. He's played where he's played because all the spots that would be a better fit for his skills have been filled by better players. That's it. He's not even expected to play any differently. He (and everyone) is expected to compete defensively no matter where they are in the lineup. He (and everyone) is expected to compete offensively. He doesn't play against top competition, and his deployment isn't especially defensive. He doesn't kill penalties. The only thing different about him playing on the 4th line is that he has less pressure to produce. He's a spare part as a player, and he's used as such.

Schrodinger's Red Wings

Right. A few decades from now, I don't think anyone's going to talk about how we got eliminated in the first round, if the record is broken they will talk about how we broke the record AND won 4 Stanley cups during the streak. It's all about how history is written, and nobody is going to write "the red wings were eliminated first round 5 years in a row just to preserve a streak, FIRE HOLLAND" I presume the hockey books/ web pages will have something along the lines of "An impressive 30 years in a row playoff streak broken by the Red Wings in 2020. During their run they managed to win 4 stanley cups and sported legends such as Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Hasek etc etc etc" Streak is nothing to look down upon at all. That's not to say Holland hasn't made questionable moves this summer but of course that's been discussed ad nauseam.