2007 College Football Season Talk

[timothy1997 0]

That quote in itself is ignorant, given the fact that Michigan graduated most of their starting defense. Michigan was not likely to go to the title game this year unless they went undefeated. Nobody is going to put a one-loss Big Ten team in the championship game because of the popular belief that a two-loss SEC team is superior to a one-loss Big Ten team.

But when you entered the season and saw the schedule, an undefeated or 1 loss team was a strong possibility. You can't serious tell me you saw the appy state loss miles away.

I am also making the huge assumption that Michigan beats Ohio State in a few weeks. If Michigan loses that game against the Buckeyes, am I making a fair assumption that this season was a failure?

[Packer487 3]

At this point, the only thing that has an outcome that would likely not include Michigan in the Rose Bowl. That would be an Ohio State loss against Illinois, followed by an OSU victory against Michigan. The comination of those two outcomes likely means Ohio State falls from the BCS title game, but they would be the Big Ten champ and make the Rose Bowl.[/font]

I'm pretty sure that we're not going to the Rose Bowl if we lose to OSU, regardless of what happens to the Bucknuts against Illinois. It's not automatic that the 2nd place B10 team goes to the Rose Bowl if the Champion is in the BCS Championship Game. We'd have to make the BCS in our own right (and even then I don't think the Rose Bowl would have to take us). With 3 losses and a BCS rating that would likely be out of the top 12 with another loss, we wouldn't be seeing a BCS game.

The good news is that the outcome of this weekend's game has no bearing on the Rose Bowl. We could lose to Wisconsin (though, living in Madison, I'd prefer that we didn't), beat OSU, and still go to the Rose Bowl since we'd each have one loss and we would've won the head-to-head meeting.

[betterREDthandead 58]

The point I make is that assuming Michigan runs the table and wins the big ten, goes to the rose bowl.....what are people going to remember about the 2007 Michigan Wolverines?

The embarassment to Appy State is what they are going to remember. What they SHOULD remember is that this team, down 0-2, rallied around their seniors, picked themselves off the mat, and played as tough as any michigan team i have seen in years. Do not get me wrong. Carr and his staff get all the credit in the world in turning this around, but years from now...what are they going to remember? Will this season be a success despite the loss to appy state?

A Michigan State fan might remember the App State thing above everything else, because Spartan fans hate Michigan and would naturally prefer to focus on the bad rather than the good.

Certainly, the App State loss will be remembered for all time, just like the Colorado loss pops up every now and then. But you don't see them flash "1994" along with it. Off the top of your head, right now without looking it up, can you name what is generally considered the greatest upset ever in the history of college basketball? Probably. Can you tell me what year, again right off the top of your head? Probably not.

As for if Michigan loses to OSU? Yes, you could define the season a failure. Hart, Henne, and Long didn't come back to win the national championship. They came back to beat OSU. That's it. 9-3 (assuming they do beat Wisconsin) is a good season, as is a trip to the C*****l O** Bowl, but only a partial success at best, because of the seniors coming back for OSU.

[timothy1997 0]

Certainly, the App State loss will be remembered for all time, just like the Colorado loss pops up every now and then. But you don't see them flash "1994" along with it. Off the top of your head, right now without looking it up, can you name what is generally considered the greatest upset ever in the history of college basketball? Probably. Can you tell me what year, again right off the top of your head? Probably not.

As for if Michigan loses to OSU? Yes, you could define the season a failure. Hart, Henne, and Long didn't come back to win the national championship. They came back to beat OSU. That's it. 9-3 (assuming they do beat Wisconsin) is a good season, as is a trip to the C*****l O** Bowl, but only a partial success at best, because of the seniors coming back for OSU.

Excellent point. Your right on the Colorado loss. For me the first things to come in mind with that play is "hail mary" and "kordell stewart to michael westbrook" but thats it. I don't remember the year.

[timothy1997 0]

A Michigan State fan might remember the App State thing above everything else, because Spartan fans hate Michigan and would naturally prefer to focus on the bad rather than the good.

As for the whole negative attitude has something to do with if your team wins or loses. For example, as a Wings fan, I will admit I am spoiled when it comes to great seasons the last easily 15 years, but when you look back in the time frame..I think of the Stanley Cups...the great players and great memories that will last with me forever. On the flipside with the Lions (post-barry sanders to last year) and the Tigers (post-cecil fielder to Leyland era), the things I remember from that team aren't necessarily any winning or positive accomplishments. I easily remember how much I wanted to fire millen or the 119 loss season.

A Michigan State fan focuses on having great basketball/hockey seasons because those are the sports that we are year in and year out good at and if the football team turns our head just a bit, we are happy. Lower expectations on the football team.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

Dantonio has to get off his high horse, and stop talking about after the game. His remarks were a joke along with Jehue's, and Hoyers.

[timothy1997 0]

Dantonio has to get off his high horse, and stop talking about after the game. His remarks were a joke along with Jehue's, and Hoyers.

link please

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

I don't have the quotes because I watched their pressers on Rivals.com, but heres a summary or direct quote of each guy.

Dantonio:

"Does Hart have a little brother? He's only that tall,"

"It's not over. I will be the coach here for a long time. It is just starting."

"Pride comes before the fall"

"They can print all that crap they want all over their locker room. It's not over. It'll never be over here. It's just starting."

Hoyer: Let's put it this way, if anybody hadn't taken this personal up until this point, it's personal now. It just shows what kind of class he has.

"Sooner or later, the little brother, you want to put us that way, you get pushed around enough, the little brother fights back and kicks the other brother's (butt).

Jehue: Complained about the moment of silence on the field, and a player (who he couldn't remember) said something mean to him.

My problems: 1) Dantonio: Don't you have a big game this week? The game is over. Move on, and worry about making a bowl game. You also started it by installing a countdown clock, talking at the MSU basketball game, and said "lets take a moment of silence" after U-M lost to App State.

2) Hoyer: Walk the talk. You knew what the game was about. You watched Stanton go through it. Don't talk after you play like crap

3)Culcrick: You are angry because someone said something mean to you? Be a man! It happens all the time during the game. Also weren't you one of the main guys planting a flag on ND's field? Don't talk if you're going to be a hypocrite

Edited November 5, 2007 by mannysBETTER3434

[Skiing - Puck 0]

I don't have the quotes because I watched their pressers on Rivals.com, but heres a summary or direct quote of each guy.

Dantonio:

"Does Hart have a little brother? He's only that tall,"

"It's not over. I will be the coach here for a long time. It is just starting."

"Pride comes before the fall"

"They can print all that crap they want all over their locker room. It's not over. It'll never be over here. It's just starting."

Hoyer: Let's put it this way, if anybody hadn't taken this personal up until this point, it's personal now. It just shows what kind of class he has.

"Sooner or later, the little brother, you want to put us that way, you get pushed around enough, the little brother fights back and kicks the other brother's (butt).

Jehue: Complained about the moment of silence on the field, and a player (who he couldn't remember) said something mean to him.

My problems: 1) Dantonio: Don't you have a big game this week? The game is over. Move on, and worry about making a bowl game. You also started it by installing a countdown clock, talking at the MSU basketball game, and said "lets take a moment of silence" after U-M lost to App State.

2) Hoyer: Walk the talk. You knew what the game was about. You watched Stanton go through it. Don't talk after you play like crap

3)Culcrick: You are angry because someone said something mean to you? Be a man! It happens all the time during the game. Also weren't you one of the main guys planting a flag on ND's field? Don't talk if you're going to be a hypocrite

Take your maise and blue glasses off and try to look at how you would have reacted if a comment was about the team you were on. Hart's comments were arrogant and unneccary.

But of course you probably think Hart's comments were hilarious and that after Michigans performance they earned the right to say whatever they damn well please.

And I don't see why you even care what MSU says or does. Most Michigan fans think MSU is far below them.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Skiing - Puck

[BlakChamber 8]

Hart sure didn't look like he was letting brother win when MSU was up by 10. His eyes were about as big as dinner plates on the sideline.

But, Hart being a douchebag isn't exactly news.

[Skiing - Puck 0]

mannysBETTER3434 , sorry about atacking you earlier in this topic, I shouldn't have done this. I just happen to be still annnoyed about siting through that game and seeing State blow it in the end. One thing is certain after seing that game and all that happened after and that I think MSU is finally starting to head in the corect direction (while we are 5-5 all the losses have been by 7 points or less), the rivaly may finally get to be respectable and tough fought once again.

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

mannysBETTER3434 , sorry about atacking you earlier in this topic, I shouldn't have done this. I just happen to be still annnoyed about siting through that game and seeing State blow it in the end. One thing is certain after seing that game and all that happened after and that I think MSU is finally starting to head in the corect direction (while we are 5-5 all the losses have been by 7 points or less), the rivaly may finally get to be respectable and tough fought once again.

No that is fine. Actually I only have a problem with Jehues comments, because he isn't walking the talk. I posted the other ones just to start drama

I wasn't fond of Hart's comments. Of course I'm going to say they were funny, and Spartys would say the same if their own player said it, but it isn't necessary. I love Hart to death, but he doesn't shut his mouth. Even Lloyd Carr said "Mike says a lot of things, and I don't listen to word of them" You got to take all of his jawing with a grain of salt.

[timothy1997 0]

I don't have the quotes because I watched their pressers on Rivals.com, but heres a summary or direct quote of each guy.

Dantonio:

"Does Hart have a little brother? He's only that tall,"

"It's not over. I will be the coach here for a long time. It is just starting."

"Pride comes before the fall"

"They can print all that crap they want all over their locker room. It's not over. It'll never be over here. It's just starting."

Hoyer: Let's put it this way, if anybody hadn't taken this personal up until this point, it's personal now. It just shows what kind of class he has.

"Sooner or later, the little brother, you want to put us that way, you get pushed around enough, the little brother fights back and kicks the other brother's (butt).

Jehue: Complained about the moment of silence on the field, and a player (who he couldn't remember) said something mean to him.

My problems: 1) Dantonio: Don't you have a big game this week? The game is over. Move on, and worry about making a bowl game. You also started it by installing a countdown clock, talking at the MSU basketball game, and said "lets take a moment of silence" after U-M lost to App State.

2) Hoyer: Walk the talk. You knew what the game was about. You watched Stanton go through it. Don't talk after you play like crap

3)Culcrick: You are angry because someone said something mean to you? Be a man! It happens all the time during the game. Also weren't you one of the main guys planting a flag on ND's field? Don't talk if you're going to be a hypocrite

can someone please provide a source or link for these comments? They appear to be taken out of context and just want to read the whole story, not bits and pieces.

Edited November 6, 2007 by timothy1997

[Skiing - Puck 0]

No that is fine. Actually I only have a problem with Jehues comments, because he isn't walking the talk. I posted the other ones just to start drama

I wasn't fond of Hart's comments. Of course I'm going to say they were funny, and Spartys would say the same if their own player said it, but it isn't necessary. I love Hart to death, but he doesn't shut his mouth. Even Lloyd Carr said "Mike says a lot of things, and I don't listen to word of them" You got to take all of his jawing with a grain of salt.

How is not Jehue is walking the walk. He is tied for number 3 in the nation in points with 108 points scored and had two touchdowns in the game against Michigan.

Mike Hart is in the 28 spot with 72 points scored and failed to put up any points. Instead he spent most of the game on the sidelines watching.

can someone please provide a source or link for these comments? They appear to be taken out of context and just want to read the whole story, not bits and pieces.

Here is an article off of WILX news 10. I saw the coments on their six o'clock news cast.

WILX News 10 Sports

[timothy1997 0]

ok after reading the link (thanks skiing-puck), I have a few comments.

Dantonio's comments were not out of line. Hart was. Hart disrespected MSU and the players that played on saturday's game. He may have been trying to be funny but in turn he just made an ass out of himself. Michigan State has bullentin board material for next year. Just channel it Sparties and remember that little brother does beat big brother every once in a while and little brother plays big brother again next year. See you in Ann Arbor.

Dantonio has to get off his high horse, and stop talking about after the game. His remarks were a joke along with Jehue's, and Hoyers.

He refuses to let his team just curl up and die like John L has in past, like Charlie Weis is doing this year in ND....I admire that in a coach. Mark Dantonio is a good coach.

[timothy1997 0]

My problems: 1) Dantonio: Don't you have a big game this week? The game is over. Move on, and worry about making a bowl game. You also started it by installing a countdown clock, talking at the MSU basketball game, and said "lets take a moment of silence" after U-M lost to App State.

2) Hoyer: Walk the talk. You knew what the game was about. You watched Stanton go through it. Don't talk after you play like crap

3)Culcrick: You are angry because someone said something mean to you? Be a man! It happens all the time during the game. Also weren't you one of the main guys planting a flag on ND's field? Don't talk if you're going to be a hypocrite

Comments taken out of context from Dantonio as imagined.

Here is the press conference transcript and he said

"I guess my message to the people out there is - when I look at the Michigan game, I would say it's not over. From my perspective, it's just starting, and it won't be over as long as I'm here at Michigan State University. We will continue to emphasize the game. "

Why wouldn't you evauluate the tape. Michigan State played very well in the 2nd half. They had more yards than Michigan and held Michigan to 3 for 13 on 3rd down. They also held Heisman hopeful Hart to 110 yards and zero touchdowns. They were also up by 10 with 7 minutes left. The only thing Michigan State didn't do was finish the game. They had Michigan on the ropes and allowed them to make big plays down the stretch that cost the Spartans in the end. Why wouldn't you use the tape and study it to make your team better.

3)Culcrick: You are angry because someone said something mean to you? Be a man! It happens all the time during the game. Also weren't you one of the main guys planting a flag on ND's field? Don't talk if you're going to be a hypocrite

different Michigan State team. The Spartans are clearly a better team than they were in 2005. Thats like comparing the 2007 detroit tigers to the 2005 tigers. Totally different team not to mention swagger.

[betterREDthandead 58]

The Detroit News had the comments too: Linkety-link

I think the Spartans are overreacting a teensy bit, but they're going to have to fire themselves up somehow. They've lost six in a row now, and there was a column in the paper (Freep or News, don't remember which) that rightly pointed out that State's main problem is a talent gap. Michigan's got the playmakers and State doesn't, pure and simple.

The only comment I really have a problem with is Brian Hoyer saying Michigan didn't deserve to win. Sounds a lot like what Hart said last year about the OSU game, that Michigan "should have won", which also wasn't a bright thing to say. Michigan absolutely deserved to win - this wasn't a case of bad refereeing or some other outside influence, State simply got outplayed.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Michigan State played very well in the 2nd half. They had more yards than Michigan and held Michigan to 3 for 13 on 3rd down. They also held Heisman hopeful Hart to 110 yards and zero touchdowns. They were also up by 10 with 7 minutes left. The only thing Michigan State didn't do was finish the game.

They didn't really start the game either. MSU was nonexistent for the whole first half, which is what beat them just as much as the last 7 minutes. State really only outplayed UM for a quarter and a half - the rest of the game belonged to Michigan. And that's what was dumb about what Hoyer said about deserving to win. He's focusing on the third quarter and the beginning of the fourth where State dominated and forgetting the rest.

No offense, Spartans fans, but I really don't think this is a different Spartans team at all. The Spartans I remember take dumb penalties at the worst possible times. 2004, I remember a huge 15-yard facemask penalty that kept a late scoring drive alive for Michigan. This year, the dumb hit out of bounds. MSU lost games they should have won this year and didn't really win any they should have lost. As usual, they start fast and give their fans all kinds of hope, and finish up cold as ice. And they still might not go bowling. This year's Spartans remind me of the 2006 Lions more than any other team. They might have the right coach now, they might be laying the foundation for better things to come, but last years Lions went 3-13 and were the same Lions we all used to know. I'd love to see MSU in a bowl - better them than Iowa, which is a truly bad team that does not need to be representing the Big Ten - but it'll have to come against Penn State, because I can't root for Sparty against Purdue.

[BlakChamber 8]

The Detroit News had the comments too: Linkety-link

I think the Spartans are overreacting a teensy bit, but they're going to have to fire themselves up somehow. They've lost six in a row now, and there was a column in the paper (Freep or News, don't remember which) that rightly pointed out that State's main problem is a talent gap. Michigan's got the playmakers and State doesn't, pure and simple.

The only comment I really have a problem with is Brian Hoyer saying Michigan didn't deserve to win. Sounds a lot like what Hart said last year about the OSU game, that Michigan "should have won", which also wasn't a bright thing to say. Michigan absolutely deserved to win - this wasn't a case of bad refereeing or some other outside influence, State simply got outplayed.

I agree with you about the talent gap. That's always going to be a problem for Michigan State as they have to compete in the midwest against Michigan, Ohio State, Notre Dame, just to name the three big schools, then there's Wisconsin, Penn State, Iowa, etc.

I disagree that you can't simply say that State got outplayed though. Michigan won the first half with basically three pl;ays (although the first half was so ugly neither team did that well) and in the second half, State had Michigan on the ropes, and did what the Spartans have done so many times, they took their foot off the gas. They went from playing to win the game, to playing to not to lose. The only thing the prevent defense does at MSU is prevent the Spartans from winning. Michigan made the plays when it counted and definetely get the credit for stepping up and taking the game when State gave it to them. Michigan State simpling getting outplayed is the 49-3 game from a few years back.

[timothy1997 0]

They didn't really start the game either. MSU was nonexistent for the whole first half, which is what beat them just as much as the last 7 minutes. State really only outplayed UM for a quarter and a half - the rest of the game belonged to Michigan. And that's what was dumb about what Hoyer said about deserving to win. He's focusing on the third quarter and the beginning of the fourth where State dominated and forgetting the rest.

No offense, Spartans fans, but I really don't think this is a different Spartans team at all. The Spartans I remember take dumb penalties at the worst possible times. 2004, I remember a huge 15-yard facemask penalty that kept a late scoring drive alive for Michigan. This year, the dumb hit out of bounds. MSU lost games they should have won this year and didn't really win any they should have lost. As usual, they start fast and give their fans all kinds of hope, and finish up cold as ice. And they still might not go bowling. This year's Spartans remind me of the 2006 Lions more than any other team. They might have the right coach now, they might be laying the foundation for better things to come, but last years Lions went 3-13 and were the same Lions we all used to know. I'd love to see MSU in a bowl - better them than Iowa, which is a truly bad team that does not need to be representing the Big Ten - but it'll have to come against Penn State, because I can't root for Sparty against Purdue.

The 2 OT losses. They played tough against Wisconsin, Ohio State and Michigan to the very end. Yes, their offense has disappeared at times and still make stupid mistakes but they are playing well enough to win, just not finishing games. Dantonio will either turn this program around like Marinelli has with the Lions (so far) or he will lose the team completely next year.

[Skiing - Puck 0]

The 2 OT losses. They played tough against Wisconsin, Ohio State and Michigan to the very end. Yes, their offense has disappeared at times and still make stupid mistakes but they are playing well enough to win, just not finishing games. Dantonio will either turn this program around like Marinelli has with the Lions (so far) or he will lose the team completely next year.

People also need to keep in mind that all of the losses this season have been by 7 points or less and that MSU has actully been in all of the games that they have played, something that could not be said about that mess of a football team last year.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Skiing - Puck

[mannysBETTER3434 1]

How is not Jehue is walking the walk. He is tied for number 3 in the nation in points with 108 points scored and had two touchdowns in the game against Michigan.

Mike Hart is in the 28 spot with 72 points scored and failed to put up any points. Instead he spent most of the game on the sidelines watching.

Here is an article off of WILX news 10. I saw the coments on their six o'clock news cast.

WILX News 10 Sports

Jehue isn't walking the talk because he complains how Michigan acted after the game, yet it is okay for him to go flag planting at ND. I wasn't talking about him statistically wise, because he is a great in his role along side Ringer. Although Hart has watched a lot of football as of late the guy was a top 5 Heisman guy, and still would be if not for the injury.

Dantonio's comments were not out of line. Hart was. Hart disrespected MSU and the players that played on saturday's game. He may have been trying to be funny but in turn he just made an ass out of himself. Michigan State has bullentin board material for next year.

He refuses to let his team just curl up and die like John L has in past, like Charlie Weis is doing this year in ND....I admire that in a coach. Mark Dantonio is a good coach.

No if you read my post to SkingPuck I said I just added the Dantonio quotes to add more fuel to the fire. I don't think they are wrong either, but I do think it is kind of stupid to keep talking about this when you team is in dire straits for a win to make it to a bowl game. Forget it and try to win this weekend.

You can't call him a good coach yet. Like a said a few weeks ago he seems like the right guy, but the jury is still out. I'm not saying he is bad, but not good either. You can't judge him on one year. As of now though he went 18-17 at Cincy, and is caught in a bad spot at MSU right now.

MSU doesn't really have bulletin board material next year. Hart isn't on the team. If a junior or underclassmen said it then yeah......

Comments taken out of context from Dantonio as imagined.

You asked for the quotes, and I gave them to you. I didn't take anything out of context. There are more quotes that were not in that presser. Look at the Detroit Free Press, and Rivals.com.

People also need to keep in mind that all of the losses this season have been by 7 points or less and that MSU has actully been in all of the games that they have played, something that could not be said about that mess of a football team last year.

That is true. During the Iowa, Wisconsin, and NW games I waited for them to crumble. Although they crumbled they didn't throw the white flag, and accept a butt whopping like John L liked. They lost due to inexperience.

Edited November 6, 2007 by mannysBETTER3434

[Packer487 3]

Jehue isn't walking the talk because he complains how Michigan acted after the game, yet it is okay for him to go flag planting at ND

Exxxxxxxactly! Caulcrick, you're a hypocrite. Talk about winning with class (not that you'd know anything about winning period in this rivalry), but you were one of the first ones running out to plant the flag at ND.

Dantonio's comments were not out of line. Hart was. Hart disrespected MSU and the players that played on saturday's game. He may have been trying to be funny but in turn he just made an ass out of himself.

Wait, wait, wait. Hart was out of line for calling them "Little Brother" (which isn't exactly uncommon), when their own coach asked his team when they were going to stop bowing down to Michigan? Was it necessary for Hart to say that? No. Probably not. But was it any more classless than Stanton's "University of Puke" comment a couple years ago? Nope. Stuff like that is all part of the rivalry. You think it's OMG AWFUL if it's the other team saying it, and you think it's hilarious if it's one of your players. State fans LOVED Stanton for that comment. Even if he failed in his life's purpose, since he was "born to beat Michigan" and all...

Dantonio was completely out of line for throwing an insult at a 22 year old kid, if for nothing more than he's old enough to know better. He's what? 51? 51 freaking years old and he's throwing height jokes at someone who just beat his team for the 4th straight time? What are you, a fourth grader? Concentrate on beating them, and stop worrying so much about insulting (poorly, at that) one of the top RBs in the country. Not to mention the fact that, ya know, his running back Ringer is the same size as Hart.

And how did this "war of words" start? Because Dantonio made his "moment of silence" comment after Michigan lost to App State. The fact that he reacted the way he did after Michigan pulled their little stunt after the game just makes him a huge, blubbering ******. Did he really think that he could kick Michigan while they were down and there wouldn't be a reaction from the players after they beat him, on his field, in a game that he had been pointing to all season--enough that he had a clock installed to count down to it? Please.

Dantonio is just stirring things up because it's the only way he can make his program seem relevant. They're 1-5 in the Big Ten, ahead of only Minnesota. They're more than likely not going bowling despite a 4-0 start, which made it almost a gimmee. They just lost their 6th straight game to Michigan.

Say what you want to about Lloyd Carr and the way he treats reporters, or the way he kind of snubbed Bellotti after the Oregon game a few years ago, or how he can't beat OSU as of late, but I'd be absolutely shocked if he ever threw a personal insult at a player on another team like Dantonio did.

With all the "363 days" comments that Hoyer and Dantonio have made, it really makes me wonder if they even have the slightest clue who they're playing this weekend. The only thing missing was Dantonio slapping himself. That would've made it absolutely perfect.

All in all though, they've done nothing to curb any thoughts that they really are "little brother" or that that inferiority complex in East Lansing is going away anytime soon.

[BlakChamber 8]

No, Carr just let's his players go and run their mouths for him.

Does anyone have the exactly "moment of silence" quote? As in a link to it.

[betterREDthandead 58]

No, Carr just let's his players go and run their mouths for him.

Does anyone have the exactly "moment of silence" quote? As in a link to it.

http://info.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/big...FTOKEN=76691137

Best I can find, but you gotta scroll down some to Angelique Chengelis' entry.

I dunno. It doesn't sound all that egregious to me, although I can't find the quote in full context. This is the first I even heard of it - I thought the Wolverines were just gathering for a postgame prayer like teams sometimes do. But what's a rivalry without a couple stunts and a little overreaction to stuff?