Top 20 players

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Crosby: 3 100 point regular seasons in 4 years

Datsyuk: 0 100 point regulars seasons in 7 years

Crosby: 1.36 ppg in regular season

Datsyuk: .99ppg in regular season

Crosby: 1.28 ppg in playoffs

Datsyuk: .64 ppg in playoffs

Crosby and Datsyuk have the same amount of career playoff points and Pav has played exactly twice as many games as Sid....Also on top of this Datsyuk has played with MUCH better players throughout the course of his career. Crosby is a better offensive player period.

Great post, but this is a Wings board so what do you expect?

I think Crosby is far better also, and the stats prove it, but because of who he is it's hard for most people here to admit it. He's a little, whiny *****, but he's still better than Pavel is.

[numberthirtynine 0]

Great post, but this is a Wings board so what do you expect?

I think Crosby is far better also, and the stats prove it, but because of who he is it's hard for most people here to admit it. He's a little, whiny *****, but he's still better than Pavel is.

What do stats prove when one player is a Selke trophy nominee and the other didn't even play on the PK?

How, in context, are these stats indicative of anything!? And how the hell could you not know that?

[InKennyWeTrust 126]

Lidstrom, the only defenseman in the NHL the other team will plan their entire gameplan around.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

What do stats prove when one player is a Selke trophy nominee and the other didn't even play on the PK?

How, in context, are these stats indicative of anything!? And how the hell could you not know that?

So what? Crosby is more of a force than Datsyuk is offensively, so they're not that close there as the above poster pointed out with some hard stats.

As far as defense, like I've said, being a two-way player isn't everything. Flip and Franzen are more likely to be Selke nominees than Crosby is. Also, Crosby is still young, and at his age, Datsyuk wasn't nominated for any Selke's. Hell, I dont' think he was even in the league yet.

Ask most people around the league, and I guarantee you Crosby will be ranked ahead of Pavel by a landslide. How can you argue that there is no bias here on LGW?

[Broken 16 381]

So what? Crosby is more of a force than Datsyuk is offensively, so they're not that close there as the above poster pointed out with some hard stats.

As far as defense, like I've said, being a two-way player isn't everything. Flip and Franzen are more likely to be Selke nominees than Crosby is. Also, Crosby is still young, and at his age, Datsyuk wasn't nominated for any Selke's. Hell, I dont' think he was even in the league yet.

Ask most people around the league, and I guarantee you Crosby will be ranked ahead of Pavel by a landslide. How can you argue that there is no bias here on LGW?

Those stats don't tell the story and you know it.

A) How much more ice time does Crosby get? The dude is double shifted half the game sometimes.

B) All of Crosby's ice time is 'offensive time'. He never see's the PK.

C) Take Datsyuk's total ice time and subtract about 5 minutes a game that he spends on the PK. He has defensive responsibilities.

Crosby averaged 2 more minutes of ice time per game than Datsyuk last season (closer to 2:30, actually). Now subtract 3 minutes from Datsyuk for PK time (I'm being generous) and Crosby is seeing almost 5 more minutes a game of offensive attack time EVERY GAME. Yet he managed to outscore Datsyuk by a whopping 6 points in the regular season (in fact, Datsyuk played 4 more games than Crosby so I'll deduct 3 points from Datsyuk... thats 9 more points than Datsyuk). Not to mention that Crosby pretty much plays every PP minute for the Penguins while Datsyuk has to split his time. Wow... you're right. Crosby is head and shoulders above Datsyuk.

Don't even get me started on Plus/Minus. Crosby was +3 last season (that's downright embarrassing for a player of his calibre) . Datsyuk was +34.

If you took Crosby's ice time and lack of defensive responsibilty and gave it to Datsyuk, his numbers would be almost identical... if not better.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Broken 16

[StevieY'sguy 1]

What do stats prove when one player is a Selke trophy nominee and the other didn't even play on the PK?

How, in context, are these stats indicative of anything!? And how the hell could you not know that?

When i compared Datsyuk to Crosby with the stats above, it was in response to a previous post regarding the two player's OFFENSIVE games....not a word in that specific post of mine was geared toward all-around or defensive play so you can save your Selke filled argument for another day

[BigTex 1]

PAVEL DATSYUK

dangle dangle

[Echolalia 2,961]

Okay Round 2 is officially over.

Here are the results:

Lidstrom 11 votes (40.7%)

Datsyuk 10 votes (37%)

Crosby 4 votes (14.8%)

Broduer and Getzlaf 1 vote each (3.7%)

27 total votes.

Overall:

1) Ovechkin

2) Lidstrom

ROUND 3:

Who do you think is the best player in the league, not including Ovechkin or Lidstrom?

please bold your answer to make it easier to filter through the debate

[BigTex 1]

I'll just re-post my last vote.

PAVEL DATSYUK

dangle dangle

Hard to argue with Lidstrom at #2. Great players, all of them.

[cjm502 165]

Pavel Datsyuk Edited September 3, 2009 by cjm502

[BeeRYCE 2]

Crosby.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Cindy Crosby.

Datsyuk decided to take the playoffs off, even before his injury, so he doesn't get my vote for that inconsistency. He's a better two-way forward, but Crosby is the captain of that team and is more of an offensive force.

Also, he plays way better in the clutch, which no one here seems to care about.

[Lidstrom for Norris 0]

Evegani Malkin

[egroen 384]

Crosby.

[Buppy 1,720]

Datsyuk

I just don't think that the small offensive advantage that Malkin/Crosby (or OV for that matter) have over him makes up for the defensive disparity.

[seeinred 1,488]

It is none other than

Pavel Datsyuk

[eva unit zero 271]

Cindy Crosby.

Datsyuk decided to take the playoffs off, even before his injury, so he doesn't get my vote for that inconsistency. He's a better two-way forward, but Crosby is the captain of that team and is more of an offensive force.

Also, he plays way better in the clutch, which no one here seems to care about.

Not to say you aren't entitled to your opinion...but Zetterberg's defense outweighs Crosby's offense, and Zetterberg's offense outweighs Crosby's defense. Plus Zetterberg is much more clutch than Crosby.

[hak 21]

my vote: Crosby

[BigTex 1]

I'm almost hoping Crosby gets #3 so we can stop talking about him. But, my vote is still Pav (gave it above already). I'd put Malkin and Getzlaf ahead of Crosby anyways.....

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Not to say you aren't entitled to your opinion...but Zetterberg's defense outweighs Crosby's offense, and Zetterberg's offense outweighs Crosby's defense. Plus Zetterberg is much more clutch than Crosby.

I wouldn't say he's much more clutch, but Hank has been great in the playoffs lately.

However, Hank had a s***ty season last year offensively, so I can't say that he's better than Crosby. Yeah, he's better defensively, but I don't want to beat that dead horse argument again. Most people here aren't voting for Zetterberg yet, so even the Wings homers aren't putting him ahead of Crosby.

Also, how is Hank better defensively than Crosby is offensively? I know Crosby hasn't been great in the Finals the last 2 years, but a lot of the credit has to go to Lidstrom and the Wings system in general.

[kidish 0]

Sid the ******* Kid. (I hate that nickname.)

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Crosby

[55fan 5,133]

Now that Alex and Nick are out of the picture, it makes my decision easier.

I trust my vote to Pavel Datsyuk. You should too.

[Broken 16 381]

Now that Alex and Nick are out of the picture, it makes my decision easier.

I trust my vote to Pavel Datsyuk. You should too.

Nice

[Greatness=PavelDatsyuk 65]

Datsyuk