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ogreslayer

2012 Lockout Watch

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This thread is so full of fail it's ridiculous. How many times does it have to be pointed out that Gary Bettman is a mouthpiece for the owners/BOG and is not working on his own. The owners tell him what they want and what to say, and he goes out and says it. Getting rid of the "dwarf" will not make anything better. You'll just get another mouthpiece for the owners, and the message will stay the same. The owners are going to push for what they want. It doesn't matter who delivers the message.

I still don't know how only 13 players in the NHL made more money than Bettman last year :nono:

Maybe because the league is making more money than it ever has, and because revenues are increasing every year? Pay for performance, right?

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Gary Bettman is a mouthpiece for the owners/BOG and is not working on his own.

While he may be a "mouthpiece", his duties and responsibilities are far more reaching than simply conveying what owners have to say. He is the final word in the NHL, and to assume he is simply a lame duck is incorrect. Does he take orders and influence from owners? Absolutely. But the owners need one person to give them a vision and their trust is given to Bettman in order make the right decisions to see it through on a number of different levels, some seen, some unseen.

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Uncle Gary still wants a large part of his "legacy" to be people remembering him as one of, if not the greatest "league heads" of all time.

No matter what he does or tries to do, this will not happen.

What is the second thing I remember him for, next to not being able to get along with "the help"? On his watch, a full one-third of the current League has either transferred or been an expansion team.

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A subcommittee is meeting today, but Fehr and Bettman won't be at a meeting together until next Wednesday.

http://www.tsn.ca/wi...tory/?id=403156

Has any other pro sport had three lockouts in a row every time the CBA expired?

Sure hasn't.

I just read that article too. I'll quote some things i really liked from it... :ok:

Quote: With NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and NHL Players' Association head Donald Fehr not scheduled to sit across from one another until the middle of next week and the sides unable to even agree on the core issues that need to be addressed, a sense of uneasiness has suddenly enveloped the talks.

Solution: PUSH THE MEETING DATE UP! Gee, i'm smart and stuff. Meet on the weekend or have a conference call. Not hard.

Quote: At that point, the league and its players' association will have just 24 days left to reach a new agreement and avoid a lockout.

Solution: Then don't wait until there's only 18 days left to act like adults and do some real negotiating.

Quote: But where do they start? There is very little common ground between the proposals each side has put forth and neither seems particularly willing to move off its current position.

Solution: Point form, what does each side want. Don't be afraid to take the fans into consideration as well...after all, we pay ALL of their paychecks. No endorsements either if there's no fans. We want hockey and we have a pretty decent idea of what's fair.

Quote: Under the proposal put forward by the owners in July, the players' share in revenue would be cut from 57 per cent to 43 per cent -- meaning the salary cap would drop to roughly $55 million next season, or just a little above where the floor currently rests.

Solution: If you want to drop the salary cap 14 million every time the CBA expires, then quit raising it 3 million every year.

Quote: The players are still smarting after being locked out for an entire season in 2004-05 before eventually accepting a 24 per cent rollback on salaries and a salary cap. At the time, Bettman repeatedly talked about the need for "cost certainty" to keep the league healthy -- something the union eventually capitulated to.

Solution: The players already got rolled back 24% last time and somehow salaries got out of control again. Maybe Owners should tell their GM's what they're willing to pay and we won't have so many 20 goal scorers at 4+ million.

Quote:

NHL's proposal@

Salary cap: $55.3 million

Salary floor: $39.3 million

NHLPA's proposal@

Salary cap: $69 million

Salary floor: $53 million

Solution: The players seem willing to give some money back, but why should they have to roll back just as much as last time? The owners sign the paychecks and hand them out and now they don't want to live with them....don't give them out in the first place.

That was fun. :lol:

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Uncle Gary has underestimated his adversary. This a new NHLPA and his propensity of being will not work this time.

It doesn't really matter who the players hire to represent them. Ultimately a lock-out hurts the players financially more than it does the owners.

They can play hardball now but once they go a few months without getting paid their regular salaries they will end up accepting another league friendly deal.

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What I want to know is, why aren't the sides getting together with their leadership? I know that Fehr is traveling, but by the time they meet next week, we are going to be 3 weeks away from camps opening. It just seems to me that both sides are just lollygagging around. Where is the sense of urgency? If I was in charge of either side, I would have my calendar clear and ready to negotiate.

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What I want to know is, why aren't the sides getting together with their leadership? I know that Fehr is traveling, but by the time they meet next week, we are going to be 3 weeks away from camps opening. It just seems to me that both sides are just lollygagging around. Where is the sense of urgency? If I was in charge of either side, I would have my calendar clear and ready to negotiate.

Agreed.

Fehr is apparently traveling to several cities to meet with players and suggested that the union and league could meet without the two heads being there, but the reality is there's no way they'd be able to hammer out a deal without the him and Bettman in the room.

It's another game of chicken and it's the fans who lose.

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Both the NBA and the NFL labor talks went down to the wire, that's just how these things work. Meaningful negotiations in Congress do the same thing. The fans have not lost a single thing yet, and would probably do well to lose a little of the collective anxiety this whole thing is producing. Ever wonder why there are waaaaay more trades at the deadline than there are during the season? Because nobody has to make a tough decision until the deadline. Take a deep breath gents.

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Agreed.

Fehr is apparently traveling to several cities to meet with players and suggested that the union and league could meet without the two heads being there, but the reality is there's no way they'd be able to hammer out a deal without the him and Bettman in the room.

It's another game of chicken and it's the fans who lose.

I will admit that I am becoming more of a fan of Fehr's as time goes on. The proposal that they put forward seemed to be a good one to me. Its not surprising that the NHL owners turned it down. Still, I just cannot fathom why Fehr is traveling around right now at this critical junction. I know why people are rising as one against Uncle Gary, and rightfully so. At the same time though, I cannot give a pass to Fehr. Both of these guys should be in a room hammering out a deal. When I see these sides meeting for a couple hours and then breaking for the day or waiting for a week before sitting down again with a month left in the season, it just seems to me that both sides don't want to get a deal done in time. I don't care if both sides are posturing. Its going to be bad for the game if there is another lockout, and no one can say without a doubt that it was all Gary's fault. Both parties have got to be available and working towards a deal, and so far, it just feels half assed at this point.

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I will admit that I am becoming more of a fan of Fehr's as time goes on. The proposal that they put forward seemed to be a good one to me. Its not surprising that the NHL owners turned it down. Still, I just cannot fathom why Fehr is traveling around right now at this critical junction. I know why people are rising as one against Uncle Gary, and rightfully so. At the same time though, I cannot give a pass to Fehr. Both of these guys should be in a room hammering out a deal. When I see these sides meeting for a couple hours and then breaking for the day or waiting for a week before sitting down again with a month left in the season, it just seems to me that both sides don't want to get a deal done in time. I don't care if both sides are posturing. Its going to be bad for the game if there is another lockout, and no one can say without a doubt that it was all Gary's fault. Both parties have got to be available and working towards a deal, and so far, it just feels half assed at this point.

agreed. this is no reason why these guys shouldn't be negotiating 8 hours a day, 5 days a week right now. the state of the nhl depends on this new cba. another lockout will be devastating

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I will admit that I am becoming more of a fan of Fehr's as time goes on. The proposal that they put forward seemed to be a good one to me. Its not surprising that the NHL owners turned it down. Still, I just cannot fathom why Fehr is traveling around right now at this critical junction. I know why people are rising as one against Uncle Gary, and rightfully so. At the same time though, I cannot give a pass to Fehr. Both of these guys should be in a room hammering out a deal. When I see these sides meeting for a couple hours and then breaking for the day or waiting for a week before sitting down again with a month left in the season, it just seems to me that both sides don't want to get a deal done in time. I don't care if both sides are posturing. Its going to be bad for the game if there is another lockout, and no one can say without a doubt that it was all Gary's fault. Both parties have got to be available and working towards a deal, and so far, it just feels half assed at this point.

Yeah, Fehr is apparently meeting with his constituents, but I'm not sure about what exactly. The most important thing that should be happening is him and Bettman and their crews in a room working on the deal. Instead it seems like a stall tactic on both their parts.

I am definitely impressed with how Fehr conducts himself in front of the media though. He's very articulate and clear about where he disagrees with the league, but I haven't heard do any of the passive aggressive crap Bettman likes to pull.

agreed. this is no reason why these guys shouldn't be negotiating 8 hours a day, 5 days a week right now. the state of the nhl depends on this new cba. another lockout will be devastating

For the money they're paid and the millions of dollars at stake, they should be negotiating a lot longer than 8 hours a day if necessary. But it's the game of chicken.

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Well even if the dwarf is the mouthpiece of the owners, he is still acting like a complete idiot. Reminds me on a butthurt child because her dad didn't buy the new Malibu Stasy with a hat...

I think if we are going to have another lockout, the media will be calling for his head and finally force the owners hand. Fehr and the NHLPA has done a great job so far, I am really impressed with them and no, they won't roll over again the league is showing record revenues so why not keep the status quo?

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Yeah, Fehr is apparently meeting with his constituents, but I'm not sure about what exactly. The most important thing that should be happening is him and Bettman and their crews in a room working on the deal. Instead it seems like a stall tactic on both their parts.

I am definitely impressed with how Fehr conducts himself in front of the media though. He's very articulate and clear about where he disagrees with the league, but I haven't heard do any of the passive aggressive crap Bettman likes to pull.

For the money they're paid and the millions of dollars at stake, they should be negotiating a lot longer than 8 hours a day if necessary. But it's the game of chicken.

I agree with you. I wasn't all high on Fehr or Bettman when this started. After watching Fehr's speeches on Youtube, I have respect for Fehr. A lot more than Bettman. Still, no bargaining for a week? Both of these guys are in my doghouse right now.

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Well even if the dwarf is the mouthpiece of the owners, he is still acting like a complete idiot. Reminds me on a butthurt child because her dad didn't buy the new Malibu Stasy with a hat...

I think if we are going to have another lockout, the media will be calling for his head and finally force the owners hand. Fehr and the NHLPA has done a great job so far, I am really impressed with them and no, they won't roll over again the league is showing record revenues so why not keep the status quo?

As much as I hate Bettman from a fan's perspective I think the Owners love him. He's delivered on everything he's promised them and even another lockout won't bother them as long as in the end they get to keep a larger piece of the pie.

I think the smartest thing Fehr did with his proposal was to include a large amount of revenue sharing into the deal. By doing that he can potentially create a wedge between the teams with big payrolls and those hovering near the floor. That kind of dissension will do more damage to Bettman's reign at the top than anything the media or we as fans can do to him.

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Seriously, if there's a lockout I'm starting to wonder how many fans are going to come back? I'm at the point where I'm starting to look for other things to watch and spend my money on starting in October. It's really not worth worrying if a CBA will get done in time, how many games will be missed, if we'll even have a season.

If the NHL is going to lockout players every 8 years, I really don't have to follow it. The Lions are going to have an exciting season, I'll follow the NFL more instead, and just wait out that couple months between the Superbowl and the start of the MLB season. I play the outdoor sports anyway, so Bettman can suck it!

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