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ShanahanMan

Holland Content with Current Roster

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"yet the companies are the ones who agreed [Read: were coerced] to those terms..." But I digress...

The companies weren't helpless people held at knifepoint. They made financial choices based on certain projections and those projections didn't prove out. There's nothing more comical than the falicy that big corporations are somehow powerless or victims of anything but their own greed.

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Players strike when they've got nothing to lose, owners strike when they've got everything to gain. Neither is the case this year. I'm predicting a new CBA with relatively few holdups, though it will probably carry on for while so that both sides can posture a little bit for next time.

Agreed. The big issues I'm guessing will be address are:

1) Lowering the current cap ceiling and floor

2) Addressing the burying of players in the minors or loaning them overseas to effectively circumvent the cap (this is something I imagine the NHLPA isn't happy about)

3) Changes to the way the cap ceiling/floor is calculated from year to year

4) Changes to the way contracts can be structured with respect to the tack-on 1mil years gms like to stick to the end of deals to bring the hit down. One solution could be to simply make the contracts count against the cap if players retire over 35 no matter when they signed the contract.

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The companies weren't helpless people held at knifepoint. They made financial choices based on certain projections and those projections didn't prove out. There's nothing more comical than the falicy that big corporations are somehow powerless or victims of anything but their own greed.

You just made quite a few fallacies of assumption.

Thanks God Mike Illitch was greedy enough to buy the Red Wings and invest money in them (to make even more money in return - go Mike!) so that I could enjoy this great team for the last 15+ years. I love that greedy corporate bastard! <3

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You just made quite a few fallacies of assumption.

Thanks God Mike Illitch was greedy enough to buy the Red Wings and invest money in them (to make even more money in return - go Mike!) so that I could enjoy this great team for the last 15+ years. I love that greedy corporate bastard! <3

Illitch didn't mind losing money to win

You can't compare other NHL owners to Illitch.

Edited by Johnz96

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The companies weren't helpless people held at knifepoint. They made financial choices based on certain projections and those projections didn't prove out. There's nothing more comical than the falicy that big corporations are somehow powerless or victims of anything but their own greed.

Did we just become best friends?

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If Kenny is honest about this, then I understand why Nick chose to retire. If this is our lineup to begin the season, the post-season streak will probably come to an end. It's not a terrible thing, at least we can finally put an end on the Wings dynasty chapter and start a new era with the young guns. It's time to start the rebuild.

Edited by irishock

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If Kenny is honest about this, then I understand why Nick chose to retire. If this is our lineup to begin the season, the post-season streak will probably come to an end. It's not a terrible thing, at least we can finally put an end on the Wings dynasty chapter and start a new era with the young guns. It's time to start the rebuild.

Yeah cause Nick knew we wouldn't land Suter or Parise....

Lose 2 roster D-men?....REBUILD!

Seriously though, you either don't know what a rebuild is or you need to look at the roster again. Unless both Smith and Kindl turn out to be a Lebda, and both Brunner and Nyquist turn out to be an Emmerton...we're still a competitive team. We're having a mini youth movement in the D-core....that's it. We're not rebuilding and I highly doubt we're missing the playoffs

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Illitch didn't mind losing money to win

You can't compare other NHL owners to Illitch.

Eh, more likely Mike Illitch, as a business man, had a business plan to make money long term. It may have appeared to you that he didn't mind losing money to win...but when the winning happened and "Hockeytown" was born, along with it's rabbid fan base (myself included), you better bet that he banked, and is still banking, a lot of money; all according to plan.

Edited by RedWingsDad

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Yeah cause Nick knew we wouldn't land Suter or Parise....

Lose 2 roster D-men?....REBUILD!

Seriously though, you either don't know what a rebuild is or you need to look at the roster again. Unless both Smith and Kindl turn out to be a Lebda, and both Brunner and Nyquist turn out to be an Emmerton...we're still a competitive team. We're having a mini youth movement in the D-core....that's it. We're not rebuilding and I highly doubt we're missing the playoffs

I agree, I don't see us missing the playoffs. In fact, I am more excited for this upcoming season than I was last season. The Wings needed a change, and probably still need even more, as I feel the team had grown stagnant in some respects. The injection of youth, - a hudler + a Samualsson, and Tootoo should make for a much more charismatic team if nothing else. Quite frankly, I found the Red Wings boring to watch at times during the regular season last year.

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Gone are days of a stacked team top to bottom winning the cup.

The new paradigm is simply get to the playoffs....ice a solid injury free team and get on a streak/or a hot goalie add in a few good bounces and see what happens.

Honestly, lots of people are bashing the wings for subpar effort in the preds series BUT we were a few bounces away from advancing...yea yea i know hard work creates oppurtunites but we had a plethora of chances to win that series and we didnt.

I do agree injuries really decimated our mojo and confidence tho, and Im very excited to wTch the wings extend their playoff streak and CONTEND for the 2013 cup.....which they will indeed do with our current roster!

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Gone are days of a stacked team top to bottom winning the cup.

The new paradigm is simply get to the playoffs....ice a solid injury free team and get on a streak/or a hot goalie add in a few good bounces and see what happens.

Honestly, lots of people are bashing the wings for subpar effort in the preds series BUT we were a few bounces away from advancing...yea yea i know hard work creates oppurtunites but we had a plethora of chances to win that series and we didnt.

I do agree injuries really decimated our mojo and confidence tho, and Im very excited to wTch the wings extend their playoff streak and CONTEND for the 2013 cup.....which they will indeed do with our current roster!

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Everyone just sees the "out in 5 games in the 1st round". I thought we played great...we had some uncharacteristic penalty hiccups...but that's it. Everyone keeps saying that even though we out shot them "our shots were all low percentage and there's were all high percentage blah blah blah" They got a lot of lucky bounces that went their way and we couldn't get one. That's just the way it goes sometimes. Especially these days in a parity filled league. Need some luck here and there. Not to mention we had our 2 best PKers out on injury and Rinne was HOT....of course his hot streak ended and crumbled in the next series. Again that's just what happens sometimes. Can't win it all or even go super deep every year. Bottom line is we are NOT a bad team at all. Def still one of the top 5 teams in the league even without Lids.

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Mixed messages, if Holland was content with his roster, why the comments of "we are stepping outside of our comfort zone" and why go after Parise and Suter...

Actions speak louder than words...

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Ok....Brunner, better than Hudler....Sammy, better than Hudler...Tootoo, better than Hudler....seriously though if Brunner nets 20-25, Sammy nets 20-25, Tootoo reeks havoc and makes it harder to play against us, we are already better offensively than we were last season...

Smith may turn out to be a 40-50 scorer...this is the year Kronner tops 40...Sammy WAY better defensively than Hudler... re-sign Abby and we lose Mursak and Emmerton probably...Nyquist will get 30 points (if not more as long as he stays in the top 6.) I am all for making the deal for Nash or Ryan, but honestly, this team doesn't suck, they have a TON of young heart and enthusiasm...more so that they have had in a LONG LONG time....hey guess what, back up goalie is better than last year too! BTW Howard is healthy, remember last season when he was healthy? He was leading all the talks in the Vezina department...

I think Kronner really steps it up this season to become the leader he was touted to be when they drafted him...Smith will get heavy nods for Rookie of the Year (be nice to beat out that guy from Minn. I'd :D ) and I really think this Brunner kid is gonna surprise a lot of people...we won't know until this is the final roster...would like Doan and Nash/Ryan...but if not, then I think we'll still make the playoffs and along the way make some loud noises! I think if Franzine stays he needs to get 40 goals in order to secure his spot on the top line...this the year for him to prove he is that top line scorer... speaking of "the year," lest we forget Filppula is in a contract year and will be looking to earned $5M+ on his next one, so you never know, he may top 70-80 points...life is good in Hockeytown. Even with losing Lids and Stu....we took more steps forward than we did back...

edit: As a matter of fact, the talk is who is gonna replace Datsyuk when he retires, where is he gonna come from...well if he stays, look no further than Val Filppula...I know I talk about trading him, but if he remains a Wing and signs a "career" contract like Kronner, he will be the #1 center in a few years...

Edited by LeftWinger
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edit: As a matter of fact, the talk is who is gonna replace Datsyuk when he retires, where is he gonna come from...well if he stays, look no further than Val Filppula...I know I talk about trading him, but if he remains a Wing and signs a "career" contract like Kronner, he will be the #1 center in a few years...

Holy crap that is a scary thought. Not saying Val isnt great because he is, but to replace Dats? Val is like Jordan Stall to me, awesome two way player who can net some points and play, well anywhere. Will remain a number 2 or 3 in terms of power rankings on the team, if we want to compete that is.

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Yeah cause Nick knew we wouldn't land Suter or Parise....

Lose 2 roster D-men?....REBUILD!

Seriously though, you either don't know what a rebuild is or you need to look at the roster again. Unless both Smith and Kindl turn out to be a Lebda, and both Brunner and Nyquist turn out to be an Emmerton...we're still a competitive team. We're having a mini youth movement in the D-core....that's it. We're not rebuilding and I highly doubt we're missing the playoffs

Exactly...i'd like to see people's list of teams that are apparently gonna finish ahead of the Wings in the West. The Wings are still a great team and we lost the best Dman ever. Top to bottom right now, this is still a playoff team. Our young guys could come in and play lights out and there could be a deep playoff run. The past 3 years, the Wings have been skating band-aids. You don't stay healthy, you don't go far. Personally, i can't wait to see this Wings team play.

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Mixed messages, if Holland was content with his roster, why the comments of "we are stepping outside of our comfort zone" and why go after Parise and Suter...

Actions speak louder than words...

That's why people need to take the things NHL executives tell the media with a grain of salt. Great negotiators treat the media as just another negotiation tool at their disposal.

Hey man nice shot! and 55fan like this

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Mixed messages, if Holland was content with his roster, why the comments of "we are stepping outside of our comfort zone" and why go after Parise and Suter...

Actions speak louder than words...

That's why people need to take the things NHL executives tell the media with a grain of salt. Great negotiators treat the media as just another negotiation tool at their disposal.

Should also take someone's pessimistic, read-between-the-lines-interpretation of things NHL execs say with an extra grain of salt. Holland never said he's content with the current roster. He said we're done in goal, we have a lot of forwards, and we need to add one more player (defenseman, presumably). He said that in today's NHL you can't add premiere UFAs every year. Not sure where the "content" angle came from...

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Ok....Brunner, better than Hudler....Sammy, better than Hudler...Tootoo, better than Hudler....seriously though if Brunner nets 20-25, Sammy nets 20-25, Tootoo reeks havoc and makes it harder to play against us, we are already better offensively than we were last season...

Impressive goals there. If Brunner nets 20-25 goals as a rookie he'll be pissed at missing Calder eligibility (or maybe he's just on the boarder of it? I'm not sure when he turns 27).

I hope your expectations that Sammy and Brunner will both outproduce Hudler's 25g/50pts from last season are correct.

Should also take someone's pessimistic, read-between-the-lines-interpretation of things NHL execs say with an extra grain of salt. Holland never said he's content with the current roster. He said we're done in goal, we have a lot of forwards, and we need to add one more player (defenseman, presumably). He said that in today's NHL you can't add premiere UFAs every year. Not sure where the "content" angle came from...

I believe it was the title of an Mlive article with the original Holland quotes in it. The reactionists on the boards took that info and ran as far off the edge of the cliff as they could.

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Really the only loss to this line-up is Nick Lidstrom, which is a huge loss and not replaced, but really you are never going to replace Lidstrom. As many in the front office have stated, Lidstrom's departure will need to be filled by other players stepping up.

Hudler --> He is gone and replaced with Samuelsson, who is a Right Handed Shot for the PP point and was on pace for 47 points despite the injury. Sammy has similar offensive potential to Hudler and he is better defensively and a much better skater. Additionally he is a Righty, which our line-up is lacking.

Holmstrom --> Replaced by Tootoo...At this point in his career Homer is a novelty player for the PP and a liability 5 on 5. Tootoo will be a solid Dallas Drake like presence that the Wings have lacked since they won the cup. Homers net front presence has been replaced by Franzen, Cleary, Bertuzzi, etc. on the PP already. Nobody does it quite like Holmstrom, but I think Tootoo is a better use of that roster spot.

No other losses occurred up front but the Wings still add Brunner or Nyquist or both to the line-up moving Emmerton/Mursak out of the line-up. If either Brunner or Nyquist hits and has a decent rookie season, that is a huge addition to the Wings line-up offensively.

Thus the case can be made that the Wings are an equal if not better team up front.

On the point: The Wings acquired Quincey as a 2-fold move last year. To make a cup run and to replace Stuart if he leaves. So Quincey is Stuart's replacement. Lidstrom is gone...He is not replaceable. Suter or Weber would have been nice, but it was never a guarantee we would get either. So our Defensive circumstance has a lot to do with a poor FA market the year Lids retired.

Hopefully guys like Kronwall, Ericsson and Quincey can step up and hopefully Smith is as good as we all hope.

Looking Forward:

Many teams have spent up to the current cap now. When the CBA is resolved many of those teams will need to ditch cap space, and they will not want to lose guys for nothing, though they will not have the negotiating strength they have now when teams know they need to move money...So I guess my whole point is, I am comfortable with this team that it is a playoff team. When the cap issue is resolved I bet Holland can grab a decent D-Man to supplement the depth when it comes time for teams to move money.

This is an odd off-season, I will not judge until October starts. (Or Later if there is a delay)

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Really the only loss to this line-up is Nick Lidstrom, which is a huge loss and not replaced, but really you are never going to replace Lidstrom. As many in the front office have stated, Lidstrom's departure will need to be filled by other players stepping up.

Hudler --> He is gone and replaced with Samuelsson, who is a Right Handed Shot for the PP point and was on pace for 47 points despite the injury. Sammy has similar offensive potential to Hudler and he is better defensively and a much better skater. Additionally he is a Righty, which our line-up is lacking.

Holmstrom --> Replaced by Tootoo...At this point in his career Homer is a novelty player for the PP and a liability 5 on 5. Tootoo will be a solid Dallas Drake like presence that the Wings have lacked since they won the cup. Homers net front presence has been replaced by Franzen, Cleary, Bertuzzi, etc. on the PP already. Nobody does it quite like Holmstrom, but I think Tootoo is a better use of that roster spot.

No other losses occurred up front but the Wings still add Brunner or Nyquist or both to the line-up moving Emmerton/Mursak out of the line-up. If either Brunner or Nyquist hits and has a decent rookie season, that is a huge addition to the Wings line-up offensively.

Thus the case can be made that the Wings are an equal if not better team up front.

On the point: The Wings acquired Quincey as a 2-fold move last year. To make a cup run and to replace Stuart if he leaves. So Quincey is Stuart's replacement. Lidstrom is gone...He is not replaceable. Suter or Weber would have been nice, but it was never a guarantee we would get either. So our Defensive circumstance has a lot to do with a poor FA market the year Lids retired.

Hopefully guys like Kronwall, Ericsson and Quincey can step up and hopefully Smith is as good as we all hope.

Looking Forward:

Many teams have spent up to the current cap now. When the CBA is resolved many of those teams will need to ditch cap space, and they will not want to lose guys for nothing, though they will not have the negotiating strength they have now when teams know they need to move money...So I guess my whole point is, I am comfortable with this team that it is a playoff team. When the cap issue is resolved I bet Holland can grab a decent D-Man to supplement the depth when it comes time for teams to move money.

This is an odd off-season, I will not judge until October starts. (Or Later if there is a delay)

Tootoo is a dirty player, and does not bring what Drake brought at all. I would rather have not gotten him and gone with someone who has class. Sammy while he played well is now a recurrent injury concern, and its his groin, and if you watched him last season hes lost a step. He also didn't score 47 points, he was on pace for it, but that's not the same as scoring those points. Hes a year older, hes not playing with players of the caliber he was the past few seasons (like 09-10 when he played with the sedins he had 53 pts). So Sammy is a downgrade until proven otherwise.

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Holland should do what the samurai used to do when they failed at their jobs. Commit seppuku.

He tried to make important moves and none of them worked. Unfortunately, his job is making moves to improve the team, not merely "trying" to make moves that help the team.

Be a man Holland.

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Maybe Holland's goal for this summer was to see the Preds fall, and aid in any way he could. Then, hey, we don't have to improve so much, because the guys that just beat us have lost their top D pairing (arguably the best in the league), and one of their toughest players, and those two Russians. So we'll probably finish first in the division, which is all we really care about anyway. HOO-RAYYY!

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Maybe Holland's goal for this summer was to see the Preds fall, and aid in any way he could. Then, hey, we don't have to improve so much, because the guys that just beat us have lost their top D pairing (arguably the best in the league), and one of their toughest players, and those two Russians. So we'll probably finish first in the division, which is all we really care about anyway. HOO-RAYYY!

Things don't change soon, St Louis and Chicago will be ahead in the standings

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Things don't change soon, St Louis and Chicago will be ahead in the standings

Shhhh, you're being realistic.

Re: GMR,

I'm reminded of that scene in Breaking Bad. "JUST GROW SOME F****** BALLS!!!"

Edited by Dabura
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Tootoo is a dirty player, and does not bring what Drake brought at all. I would rather have not gotten him and gone with someone who has class. Sammy while he played well is now a recurrent injury concern, and its his groin, and if you watched him last season hes lost a step. He also didn't score 47 points, he was on pace for it, but that's not the same as scoring those points. Hes a year older, hes not playing with players of the caliber he was the past few seasons (like 09-10 when he played with the sedins he had 53 pts). So Sammy is a downgrade until proven otherwise.

I hope sammy has fully recovered from his injuries this past year and is ready to take on a bigger role than he had his past visit.

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