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ShanahanMan

Holland Content with Current Roster

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We always seem to be on the same page with these matters, yet for whatever reason, you never get ripped apart like I do.

What's your secret?

We all have him on ignore.

:P

Nothing to back it up but gut feeling, but I am seeing Doan in a Wheel. It seems like when we've at least gotten close to a Cup, there's been at least one team member going all-out for a Cup before retirement.

There are some on the roster as it stands who have not experienced the Cup, but they're all young.

Doan could give us that hunger. We've been missing some sort of intangible since we won the last Cup. Maybe having that extra drive will motivate a team that sorely needs it.

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And I'm sorry, I don't buy for a second that anyone can honestly say they're comfortable with our chances of being a successful team with our defense consisting of Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. I mean, really...? Really...? I'm not knocking them as individual players right now, I'm just saying, look at that group and remind yourself that it's the core of your defense right now. Really consider that Lidstrom and Stuart are gone from that group. Maybe it hasn't fully sunk in yet. Maybe you're good at forgetting how lost this team looked last year in March without Lidstrom? I don't blame you; we all wanted to forget that.

Let's just forget about making the playoffs for a second...

Are we even a .500 team with that defense? Maybe in a couple years with more NHL development for the youngans, but next year? Seriously?

Don't forget or overlook how important Lidstrom's contribution to our offense was as well.

I don't want to s*** on anyone trying to be optimistic; it's a noble thing and I will cheer this team on next season no matter what. But none the less, I don't think people have really accepted what we're going to be dealing with next year, nor are people willing to admit how much Holland has mishandled the whole situation the last 3-4 years. You can talk all you want about how "smart" it is to not make ridiculous reactionary moves now, but we never should've been in this position.

And we've been talking about how "smart" Holland is for sitting on his hands because of the "cap" or some player's "potential" for four summers in a row now, and here we are: Lidstrom's gone, Stuart's gone, Hudler's gone again (I'm completely okay with that one, but he still scored goals and that hasn't been our strong suit...). We didn't land our primary free agent targets. We added Tootoo and an older Samuelson (and a good backup goalie, but hopefully that'll be a fairly inconsequential addition this year). Our defense as of now features Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. No Lidstrom. No Stuart.

Very, very, very few options left.

Smart?

It all depends-- do you honestly think this team is a few pieces from being a legitimate contender 5 years from now? No. Once Dats an Z are outside that window things look pretty bleak.

Time to man up and accept that we might need a better draft position than where we've been for 20 years-- basically starting in the second round.

Lottery picks please?

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And I'm sorry, I don't buy for a second that anyone can honestly say they're comfortable with our chances of being a successful team with our defense consisting of Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. I mean, really...? Really...? I'm not knocking them as individual players right now, I'm just saying, look at that group and remind yourself that it's the core of your defense right now. Really consider that Lidstrom and Stuart are gone from that group. Maybe it hasn't fully sunk in yet. Maybe you're good at forgetting how lost this team looked last year in March without Lidstrom? I don't blame you; we all wanted to forget that.

Let's just forget about making the playoffs for a second...

Are we even a .500 team with that defense? Maybe in a couple years with more NHL development for the youngans, but next year? Seriously?

Don't forget or overlook how important Lidstrom's contribution to our offense was as well.

I don't want to s*** on anyone trying to be optimistic; it's a noble thing and I will cheer this team on next season no matter what. But none the less, I don't think people have really accepted what we're going to be dealing with next year, nor are people willing to admit how much Holland has mishandled the whole situation the last 3-4 years. You can talk all you want about how "smart" it is to not make ridiculous reactionary moves now, but we never should've been in this position.

And we've been talking about how "smart" Holland is for sitting on his hands because of the "cap" or some player's "potential" for four summers in a row now, and here we are: Lidstrom's gone, Stuart's gone, Hudler's gone again (I'm completely okay with that one, but he still scored goals and that hasn't been our strong suit...). We didn't land our primary free agent targets. We added Tootoo and an older Samuelson (and a good backup goalie, but hopefully that'll be a fairly inconsequential addition this year). Our defense as of now features Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl. No Lidstrom. No Stuart.

Very, very, very few options left.

Smart?

That defense sounds better to me than Doughty, Greene, Mitchell, Martinez, Voynov and Scuderi

or

Salvadore, Zidlicky, Harrold, Fayne, Volchenkov and Greene

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Or the more likely reason is that he's just playing the media, and you always say you are happy with your team no matter what. Holland can't go out in an interview and say we NEED a top 6 forward and top pairing defensemen!!!! That's just going to hurt him in the trade market.

This is what I was thinking. We (he) knew from the get go we were going to have a rougher time as teams also knew how much doe we (he) have (has). My guess is now the kinda plan were on is were we (he) sits back for a couple weeks (which he also said he expects it to pick up in a couple weeks a few days ago) and have agents think he's BSing...but he's not, but he is, but...Holland you are one crazy sob. Get it done Kenny!

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Imagine if Flippula continues to go forward and keeps scoring? There's so many intangibles with this team. I believe Datsyuk can get back to 90+ points I think you can say last year a bad year for him. the year before Datsyuk was over a point per game had he not been injured he would have been on the league leaders. Franzen can snap back. It was only two years ago Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen were playing close to their best hockey.

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Imagine if Flippula continues to go forward and keeps scoring? There's so many intangibles with this team. I believe Datsyuk can get back to 90+ points I think you can say last year a bad year for him. the year before Datsyuk was over a point per game had he not been injured he would have been on the league leaders. Franzen can snap back. It was only two years ago Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Franzen were playing close to their best hockey.

Too. Many. Ifs.

If Datsyuk, Zetterberg, And Franzen go back to old form. If Filpulla continues to progress, Smith, Quinecy, Kindl and Ericsson take the next step. That's what you seem not to grasp, this team COULD be good, but, unless everything goes right, they aren't even as good as they were last year. I expect them to regress to a bubble team, because I am realistic, I will cheer for them if they are a bottom feeder or SC winners, but I won't delude myself.

ShanahanMan and F.Michael like this

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I think our defense very well "could" be much better off than were all giving them credit for right now.

Kronwall is our guy - and he would be a top pairing guy on any other team in the league right now aside from Chicago.

White - hes serviceable, competes hard, and is a better player than he gets credit with. Hes good - not great, hence why hes always the peice going to other way in trades to sweeten a deal.

Ericsson - despite the constant flaming he gets on here has come along way. Defensivley hes vastly under-rated and uses that big body pretty effectively while remaining more mobile than most his size. His penchant for turnovers on the first breakout pass have also gone way down. Its time for him to earn his contract and I think with a bigger role he will.

Smith - well, Schultz is being heralded as the next Paul Coffey already. Jake Gardiner as a rookie threw up 30 points for the leafs and is the biggest untouchable on their team now ... meanwhile Smitty is tougher, more physical, and put home more points at Wisconsin than either of them ever did. Hes a huge piece and very well could be looked upon as our 2nd dman by christmas.

Quincey- offensive upside is there, if healthy a 30-40 pts campaign is probably were hell land which is pretty good for a 4/5 dman in the NHL. If he makes simple plays on the breakout and improves his coverage he could be a pleasant suprise. (I dont like his face or his style period. I hope he canchange that).

Kindl- weve all heard by now, he had more apples than Lids at even strength last year. Well, I stilldont see a guy who is tough, mobile, smart, or physically strong enough to be a full-time NHL player. Id much rather him be our number 7 and only play when someone is hurt or needs a rest.

Our defence is mid pack - but not awful. If we can swing a deal for a Boumeester or Yandle that would be huge - but Im not totally counting on it.

Until the new cap-hit is established I dont think Kenny is going to make a trade (espeiclaly for JBo) because he knows whos probably going to be getting a visit next July 1st. If we get Weber next summer - we will all be thanking god for our unasnwered prayers over the last few months. 11 Months ago the big guy said he wanted to come here and from a few conversations I've had with people around him it seems his agent is steering him this way as well. Not going to drop sources or anything - and if we have an awful year combined with last years poor end things might totally change in his mind if they havent already. But know this - were on his radar, and if this team can tread water and at least make the playoffs again we have a really good shot at getting Weber next summer.

Z Winged Dangler likes this

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I think our defense very well "could" be much better off than were all giving them credit for right now.

Kronwall is our guy - and he would be a top pairing guy on any other team in the league right now aside from Chicago.

White - hes serviceable, competes hard, and is a better player than he gets credit with. Hes good - not great, hence why hes always the peice going to other way in trades to sweeten a deal.

Ericsson - despite the constant flaming he gets on here has come along way. Defensivley hes vastly under-rated and uses that big body pretty effectively while remaining more mobile than most his size. His penchant for turnovers on the first breakout pass have also gone way down. Its time for him to earn his contract and I think with a bigger role he will.

Smith - well, Schultz is being heralded as the next Paul Coffey already. Jake Gardiner as a rookie threw up 30 points for the leafs and is the biggest untouchable on their team now ... meanwhile Smitty is tougher, more physical, and put home more points at Wisconsin than either of them ever did. Hes a huge piece and very well could be looked upon as our 2nd dman by christmas.

Quincey- offensive upside is there, if healthy a 30-40 pts campaign is probably were hell land which is pretty good for a 4/5 dman in the NHL. If he makes simple plays on the breakout and improves his coverage he could be a pleasant suprise. (I dont like his face or his style period. I hope he canchange that).

Kindl- weve all heard by now, he had more apples than Lids at even strength last year. Well, I stilldont see a guy who is tough, mobile, smart, or physically strong enough to be a full-time NHL player. Id much rather him be our number 7 and only play when someone is hurt or needs a rest.

Our defence is mid pack - but not awful. If we can swing a deal for a Boumeester or Yandle that would be huge - but Im not totally counting on it.

Until the new cap-hit is established I dont think Kenny is going to make a trade (espeiclaly for JBo) because he knows whos probably going to be getting a visit next July 1st. If we get Weber next summer - we will all be thanking god for our unasnwered prayers over the last few months. 11 Months ago the big guy said he wanted to come here and from a few conversations I've had with people around him it seems his agent is steering him this way as well. Not going to drop sources or anything - and if we have an awful year combined with last years poor end things might totally change in his mind if they havent already. But know this - were on his radar, and if this team can tread water and at least make the playoffs again we have a really good shot at getting Weber next summer.

Bouwmeester makes twice as much as Kronwall and is half as good.

You don't like Quincey's face? Or was that a typing mistake?

Edited by Johnz96

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Quincey- offensive upside is there, if healthy a 30-40 pts campaign is probably were hell land which is pretty good for a 4/5 dman in the NHL. If he makes simple plays on the breakout and improves his coverage he could be a pleasant suprise. (I dont like his face or his style period. I hope he canchange that).

If the Wings pay for his plastic surgery, would it count against the cap?

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Will your opinion of him change if the Red Wings don't make it into the playoffs come spring of 2013 - 'cause as of right now - with this roster - I see us finishing anywhere from 7th thru 10th in the Conference.

Not one bit - one down year does not tarnish an entire body of work and it's that exact mentality that has my so annoyed with the general spoiled brat mentality on here lately....

Holland has been an integral part of our brain trust for over 20 years and adapted AMAZINGLY to the salary cap era (take a look at how well all of the other previous big market clubs have done since this was implemented) and has brought us (or been part of) 4 Stanley cups, 21 straight playoff appearances (might I mind you the longest active streak in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS), countless division titles and most importantly, a chance to win it all every year... that is damn near impossible in today's sports landscape, and I guarantee 29 other clubs would KILL to have such a horrible problem on their hands...

Even if we miss the playoffs this year (which I don't think we will), Holland will re-tool and put us back within Stanley Cup contention in no time, and when we're a perennial favorite again, win even MORE cups and titles under his reign, the people with this mentality will still be waiting for the team to have ONE year that's down again, so they can yell "fire him"... It's laughable...

Might I remind everyone that during his tenure we've also recovered from unexpectedly losing Konstantinov (a perennial Norris hopeful), unexpectedly losing Jiri Fischer(who was well on his way to being one of the premier big dmen in the league), adapting to a salary cap era AND now, he is losing the best (arguably) defenseman of all time and Holland WILL, as always, adapt to this... just because he didn't pull a rabbit out of his ass, when nothing was available right now, doesn't make him less capable and NOT chasing after marginal players to fill a hole they can't anyway, IS what makes him even better...

I am not commenting on this topic any further because it's like screaming at the deaf and if those who disagree can't understand all these points and take them for what they are, I don't know what else to say... As I said before, everyone has the right to be upset this off-season hasn't gone as planned, but COME ON.

Edited by stevkrause

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I feel like a lot of people are underestimating the impact Smith will have. The kid is a pure stud and will prove why he's one of the most talked about rookies in Detroit's system. I have a feeling Smith will make Holland look like a genius for not blowing up the team for a 1 year run.

Edit:

Wasn't it Babcock that made the comment "Smith is the type of player you build a team around"?

I agree whole-heartedly with this. The logic that we have to address any holes with RFA's or trades is silly. Why do we even have a farm system? Why spend the time and money to scout, recruit, and develop prospects if management is going to fill every available roster spot from outside the organization? Was it right to attempt to land Suter? Yes. Was it right to NOT overspend? Absolutely.

I'm looking forward to seeing Smith and some of the others play this season.No one can say with any certainty what is going to happen with the Wings or any other team out there. Suter or Parise could suffer a season-ending injury in the pre-season (a la Mursak). Smith and some of the other young ones could exceed expectations, and their exuberance could be infectious with the veterans. Could the converse scenario also be true? Of course. Let them play and see what happens.

Kind of ridiculous to doom a team before even a second of hockey is played.

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No doubt we all have very high expectations for our team and thoise very expecations come from our incredible success over the last 20 years.....i love those expectations and all the rabid fans it brings about, both for and against kennys moves.

Can you imagine if the Wings were more like our Lions?

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No doubt we all have very high expectations for our team and thoise very expecations come from our incredible success over the last 20 years.....i love those expectations and all the rabid fans it brings about, both for and against kennys moves.

Can you imagine if the Wings were more like our Lions?

Although things have been looking up there... you bite your tongue! :)

I want to go on record as not liking Quincey's face too....

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I want to go on record as not liking Quincey's face too....

It's true! I Was telling my wife the other day... there is something about his face that I don't like and it makes me not want to like him as a player for some reason. lol

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Wait a minute - is he wearing a jock strap on the outside of his pants? Or is that how they always look before they throw on their hockey pants? lol

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Wait a minute - is he wearing a jock strap on the outside of his pants? Or is that how they always look before they throw on their hockey pants? lol

He's wearing a jock over his Under Armour one-zee.

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Wait a minute - is he wearing a jock strap on the outside of his pants? Or is that how they always look before they throw on their hockey pants? lol

I've done the same - more comfortable that way.

He's wearing a jock over his Under Armour one-zee.

I miss the old light blue one-zee's from years ago.

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I've done the same - more comfortable that way.

I miss the old light blue one-zee's from years ago.

I got the under amour "shorts" with the sock Velcro and built in jock and I wonder how I ever did without them... So much lighter and more comfortable and you don't feel it at all during your strides...

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I guess idont understand the risk in signing semin or maybe its just the fact I'm mad we lost first round of the playoffs to the preds (wtf). Or maybe two of the teams members that were on the team that got rid of our dead wings nickname are retiring, if holmstrom does retire that is. Or maybe its the fact that if this semin guy doesn't work out y couldn't we trade him? Or evn sign him and use him to trade to get someone better or.... idk just lost my train o thought any aditions to this or arguments I believe holland will do something. I'm sure illitch doesn't like losing.

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Also I think everyone is just well destroyed from losing lindstrom I don't think there really mad at holland. Its kind of like when ur a kid and u think ur parents will live for ever. But they don't, and we all had lindstrom as the guy forever in the wings jerzy. we all new it was gunna happen but never wanted to face the reality of not having him

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