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ShanahanMan

Holland Content with Current Roster

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Look, Holland is being smart here. He tried his best to get both Parise and Suter, but in the end they wanted to be close to their families, which Michigan cannot provide. After those two, the free-agent pool drops off considerably. We have money and we have needs, but is it smart to utilize that money in a poor free agent market in attempt to fill your needs with average players, or would it be better to put a bandage on all the wounds for now and wait until next year when more high profile players will be free to sign wherever they like? Trades are always an option too, but when you need someone to replace Lidstrom, or some top-six sniper (in a dry free agent year no less), prices are going to be high. Holland admitted he wants at least another player before he's comfortable with the team, but it's goIng to be a bandage, not a permanent fix to our roster issues. This year can't provide us with a permanent fix. That's just the reality of it. Better luck next year.

exactly. :clap:

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I mean, I completely understand that the fanbase can be discontent with the way this offseason has gone and the fact that the DRW are simply not as reliable as they used to be being a locked elite team.

But come on now, that's the way the NHL has gone since the lockout, and frankly, that's sports in general. I have to agree with the old bit that we are spoiled as DRW fans these past two decades. With salary caps, long term contracts, and the sport even changing in itself, it's just extremely difficult to keep a first place team on the ice year after year. I am just as unhappy to say this is the roster the squad has moving forward, but it is what it is. We're talking about Kenny Holland and the Detroit Red Wings here. He's not going to just pull the trigger on some drawn up deal that took a few minutes to think up. He is going to do what is best for the organization in the long run and do what he can in the short run. He has proven that. He has fudged up as of late, sure. But the cards are stacked against you right now. You can't win them all.

Parody has taught us you don't need a dream team to win in all. The Wings aren't set up to win the President's Trophy next year. They will roll with what they got and if they have a terrible year, so be it. Maybe a wake call and finishing 12th in the Conference will be a wake up call to everyone in this town to cherish what we have had these past twenty years.

Cheers. LGW

Bettman's parody lol

He has really screwed around with the game to make it hard for any team to dominate but I think saving the cap space for the right moves will enable us to continue to dominate for a long time and until we make those moves we can assess what we got with the younger guys and give them an opportunity to develop. Hopefully those right moves will present themselves during the season. I don't think even the most optimistic Kings' fans thought they had a good chance at the Cup at the beginning of the season

Edited by Johnz96

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Holland can't replace Lidstrom that was never going to happen. Missing out on Sutter and parise because they wanted to be close to there family, well you can't blame Holland on that one. Holland tried to get both of them here and missed out nothing you can do.

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ShanahanMan is right. Holland should instead talk about how the team is horrible and that they won't be able to compete for anything.

I like this reply but I am all out of likes lol

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That line has been on loop for the last 4 years.....

4 years? like the year we landed Hossa and went to the SCF, to lose in 7, when in a pivotal game 6, the Pens got to play with 6 men on the ice for 30 seconds with no penalty, which resulted in a goal that tied the game, that they then went on to win? That 4 years ago? Or how about the following year where we were capped out and didn't have space, Hudler held us hostage and we had to re-sign, oh, like half our team at once? How about that one?

It's only been 2 off-seasons that haven't gone ideal and the FA market in both sucked, name ONE player that we missed out on that would have had an impact in either, that we ever had a chance on? You could argue there were ZERO of those players last year and this year, it was Parise and Sutter or bust, both of which we never even had a chance... any other contract would have been piss-poor and a reach...

but, once again, let's not let facts get in the way...

Edited by stevkrause

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I still think he will make a few tweaks this off-season. Am I mistaken or are we not even to the cap floor yet? I don't agree with signing Semin and Doan to multi-year deals and being stuck with that.

I still believe that having a mediocre year and first round exit would be worth landing Weber and Getzlaf next year, not to mention what might come at the trade deadline this year.

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My concern is it just seems like holland wants us to slip into the playoffs and then win it somehow ala LA. but we don't have the quality underachieving players they do that can turn it on in the playoffs possibly. Holland wants this team to make the playoffs every year it possibly can rather than trying to make changes to have it win, but possibly weaken it for the short term. Seems like he's buying into the idea that any team can win in the playoffs.

Rick D likes this

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What is Kenny supposed to say? I have glaring needs and I MUST acquire a scoring winger and a top 4 dman? Alot of what Kenny says is posturing. Of course he knows we have specific needs. He can't look desperate though. That being said, he needs to make an impact trade eventually. Playing it safe all the time will get him nowhere. Now I don't know when the right time to make this trade is, but at some point he has to make one. Whether it be this summer, during the season, at the trade deadline or next summer...I don't know. There is too much competitiion for the best free agents each summer and Kenny can't just assume they will sign with his team just because they are the Detroit Red Wings. It's much harder to make trades now because there is so much parity. So many teams think that if they get some luck, they can win the Cup like LA did as a #8 seed. If today's game of being a GM is too complicated or too hard for Kenny then I hate to say it but maybe it's time he be replaced. It just seems the past few seasons he has been over his head and not really had a clear plan on what to do. He's done a nice job of developing some young talent in the minors and over in Europe. But he hasn't really done anything to improve his team. Maybe Jim Nill should be the GM and Kenny can have a different job in the front office. I've been a Ken Holland supporter for a long time but I keep seeing the same patterns over and over again. The guy doesn't want to do anything. It's like he is scared to give anything up. I liked how he went after both Parise and Suter even though he failed. At least he tried. But now it's back to playing it safe. It was alright to play it safe back when we had incredible depth. Now we do not have this luxury. Losing a Hall of Fame dman in Lidstrom and not replacing him with anyone is inexcusable. Again, I know it is not easy to go out and acquire a top level dman. But this is why Kenny is the highest paid GM in hockey. He is supposed to have the skillset to do this. Other GMs make moves. Shero, Holmgren, Lamoriello to name a few. At least they are pro-active in trying to improve their teams. All Kenny does is say he is happy with his team. I know it's easy for me to sit here and be the Monday morning quarterback and play the woulda coulda shoulda game. Hindsight is 20/20. But I am not being paid millions of dollars to be the GM o the Detroit Red Wings. I know I will be criticized for saying it but here goes...I think Holland takes his job for granted. He has been doing it for so long and he has been successful doing it. I think now he is complacent and has zero fear of ever losing it. It's like the way Franzen plays now. Before he got the big contract, he was busting his ass and working hard and looked like he would be a perennial 40 goal scorer who came up big in the playoffs. Now he has the big contract and he shows up when he feels like it or is having fun. I just don't see the drive in Holland anymore. I mean I think he does care about his job and takes pride in it. But I don't think he has that fire to win the Cup anymore. Because of this, I don't see him doing enough to make this team better. This team is like the movie Groundhog Day. Is there really any difference between 2010, 2011 and now 2012? Other than Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart being gone? Not really. Sure, I'm a spoiled Red Wings fan. We all are. 20 years of making the playoffs will do that. Is it wrong for me to expect my team to try and get better each season? What am I supposed to do? Be happy with seeing my team win 4 Cups and then not care anymore? I can't do that. I expect much more from the Detroit Red Wings. At least try to make moves to compete for the Stanley Cup. If you fail then so be it. At least you tried and that's all any fan can ask really. I know some will ask "what would you do then?" I would TRY to improve this team through free agency or trade. However, I don't believe Holland is really trying as hard as he should be. I may be wrong but hey it's my opinion. I see the same song and dance every summer now. We like our team. We like our team. We like our team. Well that's nice Kenny. I like our team too Kenny. I wish we could add some more pieces though. Anyway, that's what I think.

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My concern is it just seems like holland wants us to slip into the playoffs and then win it somehow ala LA. but we don't have the quality underachieving players they do that can turn it on in the playoffs possibly. Holland wants this team to make the playoffs every year it possibly can rather than trying to make changes to have it win, but possibly weaken it for the short term. Seems like he's buying into the idea that any team can win in the playoffs.

Or the more likely reason is that he's just playing the media, and you always say you are happy with your team no matter what. Holland can't go out in an interview and say we NEED a top 6 forward and top pairing defensemen!!!! That's just going to hurt him in the trade market.

stevkrause and 13dangledangle like this

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My concern is it just seems like holland wants us to slip into the playoffs and then win it somehow ala LA. but we don't have the quality underachieving players they do that can turn it on in the playoffs possibly. Holland wants this team to make the playoffs every year it possibly can rather than trying to make changes to have it win, but possibly weaken it for the short term. Seems like he's buying into the idea that any team can win in the playoffs.

That's partially true....all it takes it a favorable first or second round matchup to build some steam and have those one or two "average" players have "elite" performances. Remember when Franzen, Pavelski, etc had crazy playoff performances? Your highest paid players aren't always your best.

If you keep filling your top 6 with older past-prime talent, your young stars can't get the chance to shine. I can see Brunner and Helm having great seasons and proving they can put up top 6 results with top 6 playing time.

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Or the more likely reason is that he's just playing the media, and you always say you are happy with your team no matter what. Holland can't go out in an interview and say we NEED a top 6 forward and top pairing defensemen!!!! That's just going to hurt him in the trade market.

you know, when you're not being a Crosby slappy, you have some really solid, well thought out, salient posts! :colgate:

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How exactly are we risking our money if it's not being allocated to anything else...? If it's essentially, just sitting there? Don't risk some money on a previous 40 goal scorer for a team in need of scoring depth? Just don't understand your argument...

The money is not just sitting there. It is actual real money that if spent is money that The Wings and Ilitch really lose. From experience it is clear that Ilitch doesn't mind spending the money to greatly improve the team but I don't think he wants $17M being spent just because it's "just sitting there." The FA group this year sucked . . . You had two great quality guys who wanted to go to their hometown area and be where their family grew up and most still lived (and I think you could argue that the Wild doubled down on that desire by overpaying both guys in overall contract and in term). After that there is not much there. Most FA's want multi-year deals which not only affects cap space this year but into the future. By overpaying for a guy this year just because the Wings have the cap space hinders them in the future as well. They have to sign Flip and Howard next year and the FA crop next year should be great. I just don't see Semin as making enough of a difference to have the cap hit NEXT year which would likely be a prerequisite to signing him this year.

"One day, we might be able to bring a player of significance here."

Erm...we have 16 million in cap space. We're a legendary team. We should be able to bring a player of significance here this summer, not in the distant future.

Yeah the Wings have the cap space, yeah they are a legendary team . . . However, there were only two players of significance in the FA pool this year and they both wanted to play together, get matching contracts, AND wanted to go home. Cap space and being a legendary team don't amount to much when

players want to go home and home isn't Michigan.

I really wish he wouldn't say he's content with our roster up front.

What do you want him to say, there are no great FA's he can get (Doan would probably be the best option out there) and most trades look like lateral moves at best (based upon asking prices) - - Would you prefer he said "You thought we were bad in the playoffs last year . . . just wait until you see us this year . . . assuming that by some miracle we actually get to the post season . . . however our fans can look forward to the anticipation of the draft lottery . . . oh yeah any good players want to come over and be part of that this season? Please . . . pretty please."

Posturing in the media is part of his job. I'm sure he is concerned about the team and would like to add great pieces but that might not be an option at this time.

*For the record I think the team will do fairly well this year and will make the playoffs.

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I believe our BIGGEST weakness the past three seasons has been lack of motivation / heart, that intangible 'gusto' that a team needs to win the cup.... call it what you want. In that area I think we made strides with the addition of Tootoo, Samuelsson (he's a chirper), and a presumed injection of youth in Smith / Nyquist. I think we could add even more of that intangible if we manage to sign Doan, though I don't think that's likely. At any rate, I’m very optimistic on that front.

Edited by RedWingsDad

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He also said this in the mlive article:

"We're going to continue to explore the market," he said. "There are some players on the free agent market that we have some interest in. There is some trade talk out there, which we're trying to explore.

"I think right now is a slow time. I think it'll start to heat up again in a couple of weeks."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/07/general_manager_ken_holland_st.html

So he's not necessarily done, though I understand the frustration. I was disappointed when Holland didn't make a move in the offseason or trade deadline for what we all could've guessed was Lidstrom's last season. Now he's in the press basically trying to have it both ways, patting himself on the back that the Wings were one of two teams that met with Parise, but then spins it that maybe their 13 year term (which I thought the Wings matched?) was too long with his "out of the game for a decade" comment. It's also a little funny to hear him say that given the contracts he gave to Zetterberg and especially Franzen.

The lack of moves is frustrating, as are his comments. I'm just trying to wait patiently and hope he makes another move or two.

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I mean, I completely understand that the fanbase can be discontent with the way this offseason has gone and the fact that the DRW are simply not as reliable as they used to be being a locked elite team.

But come on now, that's the way the NHL has gone since the lockout, and frankly, that's sports in general. I have to agree with the old bit that we are spoiled as DRW fans these past two decades. With salary caps, long term contracts, and the sport even changing in itself, it's just extremely difficult to keep a first place team on the ice year after year. I am just as unhappy to say this is the roster the squad has moving forward, but it is what it is. We're talking about Kenny Holland and the Detroit Red Wings here. He's not going to just pull the trigger on some drawn up deal that took a few minutes to think up. He is going to do what is best for the organization in the long run and do what he can in the short run. He has proven that. He has fudged up as of late, sure. But the cards are stacked against you right now. You can't win them all.

Parody has taught us you don't need a dream team to win in all. The Wings aren't set up to win the President's Trophy next year. They will roll with what they got and if they have a terrible year, so be it. Maybe a wake call and finishing 12th in the Conference will be a wake up call to everyone in this town to cherish what we have had these past twenty years.

Cheers. LGW

Nobody is a lock anyomore, an 8th seed just won the cup by knocking out the top 3 seeds on their way. Home ice advantage is completely overrated. Just make the playoffs is the motto now a days.

No way this team finishes 12th..end of story. Its going to be a great divisional race in the central which will only help us get better.

Ram likes this

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Plus the Wings only have 6 D-men signed right now, and Janik just signed in Germany. If someone got injured, who'd fill in?

At the very least you'd think he'd pick up a 6/7 d-man. Knowing Holland's fondness for boomeranging players, it'll probably be Commie.

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Let's talk about our weaknesses. Obviously we took a step down on D, and we could use a top 6 sniper (who couldn't). Those things aside, I believe our BIGGEST weakness the past three seasons has been lack of motivation / heart, that intangible 'gusto' that a team needs to win the cup.... call it what you want. In that area I think we made strides with the addition of Tootoo, Samuelsson (he's a chirper), and a presumed injection of youth in Smith / Nyquist. I think we could add even more of that intangible if we manage to sign Doan, though I don't think that's likely. At any rate, I’m very optimistic on that front.

I agree about the biggest weakness being lack of motivation, and in addition to the things that you mentioned as providing you optimism I think that the other players may have more motivation/drive this year as well. Each year being picked preseason as a contender has got to impact motivation, this year they are somewhat underdogs, written off, and being disparaged as a team. I think that may help motivate the whole team to prove that they are good, something that the hockey world (and many of the Wings players as well) have taken for granted for a few years now. How many times have you either said or heard if they would play the whole 60 minutes they could win almost every game. I think they believed that, I think they assumed they could coast through a period or two and then play hard and they were a good enough team to win most games. I doubt they feel that way this year and it may impact how the team as a whole plays night in and night out.

It's also a little funny to hear him say that given the contracts he gave to Zetterberg and especially Franzen.

If I'm not mistaken I think Holland has said in the past that you have to have a couple of those long term contracts but that very many of them will hinder you for years. He may have meant that already having two such contract adding another two would be detrimental.

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This is what I posted over the current "Doan" thread:

From Kukla's Korner: http://www.kuklaskor...n_standing_pat/

Alexander Semin’s waiting for one thing: Shane Doan. Once Doan signs, so will Semin. For less. If you think it’s his attitude that has kept Ken Holland from signing him already, you’re wrong. The Wing Way can solve attitude issues and I believe Semin would take a one-year deal to prove the anti-Semintics wrong.

But not until the Doan decision is made.

And yes, the Wings could use Semin. Of course, he’d play with Datsyuk. Of course he’d help the power play. Absolutely, without question he’d immediately attain Enigma status and he’d be a major topic of discussion, right here, every day. Good or bad.

Yes, Ken Holland’s considering him. And this is a lie:

MLive

“I don’t think we need a whole bunch of guys,” Holland said at Wednesday’s Hockeytown Winter Classic press conference. “I think if we can get one more player, (we’ll be fine).”

There's a lot of posturing going on, and almost all of the lack of player signings are out of anyone's control. It's almost like trying to control the weather. Good luck with that.

If an appealing move can be made, I really think Holland will try. There just not that much above the crap line this year.

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Seriously.... I even posted the quote. How is it that you are the ONLY one reading it that way then?

He is not. I read it the same way, because, well, thats exactly what it said. That Quincy and Smith will "replace" (the exact word he used) Stuart and Lidstrom.

Oh, and I am not some doom and gloom negative person about this off season, I've been staying positive and hoping for the best, so you cannot attempt to refute MY comment by passive attacks and accusing me of only being negative like you did with him. ;)

Lets give it a rest with the Holland bashing ...

You know what I'd like to see people give a rest? (in general, not just here at this forum) Calling anyone with a different opinion or alternate suggestion a "hater" or "basher"

Those are such lame, overused internet terms. Don't agree with me? Oh, you're a hater then. Post any other comments or alternate suggestion? Quit bashing.

Lame.....

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He is not. I read it the same way, because, well, thats exactly what it said. That Quincy and Smith will "replace" (the exact word he used) Stuart and Lidstrom.

Oh, and I am not some doom and gloom negative person about this off season, I've been staying positive and hoping for the best, so you cannot attempt to refute MY comment by passive attacks and accusing me of only being negative like you did with him. ;)

Well, they will replace him. But that doesn't mean it's an equal replacement.

The Wings lost one of the greatest D-men to ever play the game, and a solid middle pairing guy. Quincey will hopefully be okay but not great once he gets used to the pairings and system. They're bringing in a talented but very green rookie who has played a whopping 14 NHL games in his career. And now they're also relying on Kindl, who couldn't manage to hold the #6 spot convincingly and didn't see a lick of ice time in the playoffs.

It's hard to feel good about the Wings defense right now.

pucktividi and esteef like this

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I have been easy on Holland thus far....if Doan signs for less than $5M somewhere else.....then Holland is done. I hope he isnt really content with his current lineup.....so, what it was Parise or noone? Suter or noone? Holland needs to let go of Franzine already.....he is absolutely crap! Package Franzine for someone.....

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http://youtu.be/FM-ouCaE4bg



I'm pretty sure if we're in a lot of trouble Holland will make the necessary trade. At this point it's like what others have said, after Suter and Parise there were not very many (if any) other impact players available. I'm disappointed that there wasn't a big move made either, but I think that just comes standard with being a Wings fan in the off season. Why don't we give it a couple of months into the season before we jump ship, eh?

On a positive note, doesn't this mean that Kenny can pick up Weber next year? Which is what we all wanted before the whole Suter ordeal.



Edit: sp...have not slept Edited by Wingsfan72

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(First, serious props to ElCapitan for the Stevie Ray Vaughan guitar as an avatar - that's an iconic instrument)

I think we need to calm down a little bit and actually read what Holland said. He said we don't need "a whole bunch of guys". He even confirmed that they're looking at perhaps one more. This team has 15 NHL forwards (not including Abdelkader) and 5 defenseman (not including Quincey) already under contract. I wouldn't be surprised if they signed a few depth defenseman, while still looking at a guy like Doan or Semin through FA.

I know that fans are disappointed about Parise and Suter, but (a) that wasn't Kenny's fault, and (b) it's time to move on. The Shea Weber situation is still a dark horse out there. Perhaps there's some other trade where we swap out one or more forwards for a D (certainly would add more sense to the Tootoo and Sammy signings). If this team added Semin tomorrow and did nothing else, the sun would still come up tomorrow. Obviously I have concerns about the defensive corps, but if the options aren't there, you only exacerbate the problem by throwing absurd contracts at borderline players like Matt Carle.

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Well, it is tough to face the fact that we are not a contender.... I took it for granted for 19 years that I followed the Red Wings. Any advices?

I remember when we weren't a contender, when we didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of making the playoffs let alone winning the cup. I stood by my Wings then and I'll continue to do so.

As a Wings fan you can't help but notice all the animosity, even hate for our beloved franchise. That's because even where our roster stands Detroit is still a force to be reckoned with and that team you do not want to play.

Byorski and IILeiBlazeII like this

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