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ShanahanMan

Holland Content with Current Roster

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Yes, we have spoiled fans. That comes with the territory of winning. All I want is for Holland to take a chance and sign Semin.

This all depends, in the first place, on what sum of money Semin is asking for. I think it would be strange to assume that Holland is altogether unwilling to give Semin an offer. What it will much more likely come down to is that he might ultimately not be willing to give Semin the money that the latter is asking for.

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It's time to have faith in our youth and brush off a bit of the "guaranteed success" mentality. It's going to be an interesting season to say the least, it's the first time I can remember going into a season wondering if we are actually gonna make the playoffs. I'm not ripping on the team in the slightest, but there has been some drastic change this offseason and the team is a bit foreign going into October. I really don't know what to expect, I HOPE Smith is another Karlsson story and just explodes this season but i'm not banking on it. We didn't expect Flip to have the season he just had and i'm looking forward to being surprised again and seeing who steps up and gets it done for us.

It's been sticking in my head since the Wild signed those who shall not be named (and I don't mean Voldemort) that what if we did sign them both to those huge contracts, Smith proves to be an elite defensemen over the next couple years and we can't afford to resign him because we locked ourselves up with those massive contracts? Sometimes things happen for a reason, and if we can't add any big name players then i'm sticking to this logic so I don't go nuts.

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You cannot say that anymore.... LA was an 8 seed last season and no one thought they'd make it anywhere... NJ was, what? a 6 seed? That was your Final this past season.... low seeded teams that no one would have ever predicted being there. We are a contender, plain and simple.

Meanwhile look at the ROSTERS. Granted LA didn't have a defenseman on the level of Lids, but they sure as hell are better top to bottom on defense (and even in goal) with the Wings. They traded their best d-man, replaced him, gained some scoring and ended up winning the Cup.

The Wings AREN'T built the same way, they lack the scoring punch they've had in recent years AND they lost not one but TWO top-4 d-men. And they didn't replace them with quality pieces.

The wings won't miss the playoffs, but don't expect anything other than a 7 seed at best.

And if they DO miss the playoffs it's time for Holland to go. Plain and simple. The downward spiral is quickening.

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This is smart from Kenny. What were people expecting him to say?

"Well the current roster isn't good enough, this team has no chance", can you imagine what message that sends to a player?

I am tired of reading about Semin, if he doesn't want to sign for one year, he won't be Wing, period.

The roster needs indeed work but there is nothing outthere, so staying pat is smart, panic signings are kneejerk!

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That line has been on loop for the last 4 years.....

then we are sol, overpaying guys is not the way to win championships

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Unless we're dressing 15 or 16 forwards a night, we have more cap space than the 17 million we're talking about here. So it's pretty hard to say that we're not signing people because we want to save money for next year. Even with a signing (or two) we've still got a TON of money.

Also: Every year we don't make a change and desperately hope that one of Nyquist, Jarnkrok, Jurco, or whomever is the next Datsyuk or Zetterberg is another year older for a core of guys who (even with Lidstrom and Stuart) couldn't get the job done. It's really hard for me to believe that the same core that couldn't get the job done for the last three years (even with Lidstrom and Stuart) is going to be able to do it now. Unless Sammy, Tootoo, and Gustavsson were the missing ingredients...ugh. And even if Nyquist, Brunner, Jarnkrok, or Jurco come around and turn into high level guys, how far off is that, two years? Three? At which time Datsyuk will be Bertuzzi's age, Zetterberg and Kronwall will be Samuelsson's age, and Flip will be 30-31. Who's the core then?

Edited by kipwinger
esteef and pucktividi like this

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Well Holland's not an idiot. He won't tell the media "HOLY s*** I'M DESPIRATE! I'LL PAY ANY PRICE".

He's obviously going to lean towards tank/youthgrowth or find that perfect trade.

Kneejerk reactions won't replace Nick Lidstrom.

SouthernHockeyHoney likes this

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I'm content with this group. They are a mediocre bunch who could maybe surprise some people. They're not the Leafs or the Oilers.

I'm also content with the sofa that I got in 1976. It's ugly earth-tone paisley and my dad had to beef it up with plywood in spots, but it'll do until I get something better.

Pretty much like the Wings. What we have is good. That doesn't mean we aren't shopping around to get better. It just means that we're not going to throw out the babies with the bathwater and blow up the team en route to getting better players.

Trades? FA signings? Sure, if they improve the team at a reasonable price.

One can be content and still looking to improve. It just means that what one has is servicable.

Now if Holland had said, "I'm tickled pink with this team!" then I would worry.

Edited by 55fan

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Only things that make sense...Sign Doan and/or Semin....trade for Ryan or Nash...

Sign Doan to a 3 year contract and Semin to a 1 year... if you have Doan/Ryan or Nash under contract next July, it makes Detroit look much more attractive to Weber/Getzlaf/Perry... I know there are rumblings about Detroit getting Weber this season, but I just don't see Nashville trading him to us without raping us...and ANY offer sheet can and will be matched by them...

The ONLY way I believe that Holland is ACTUALLY content with this roster is he knows he won't get Doan/Semin and Nash/Ryan are way too expensive.,..

If Holland starts the season with this roster and it stinks up the ice, he at least still has Cap to make a deal then...honestly he needs to do it now (this summer) because on New Years Day who is going to want to watch a losing team in the Classic? If Holland does not ice a team that people want to watch, this can and maybe will be Detroit's LAST Classic... You cannot have a Winter Classic full of AHL'ers....that is what the Winterfest is for...

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Only things that make sense...Sign Doan and/or Semin....trade for Ryan or Nash...

Sign Doan to a 3 year contract and Semin to a 1 year... if you have Doan/Ryan or Nash under contract next July, it makes Detroit look much more attractive to Weber/Getzlaf/Perry... I know there are rumblings about Detroit getting Weber this season, but I just don't see Nashville trading him to us without raping us...and ANY offer sheet can and will be matched by them...

The ONLY way I believe that Holland is ACTUALLY content with this roster is he knows he won't get Doan/Semin and Nash/Ryan are way too expensive.,..

If Holland starts the season with this roster and it stinks up the ice, he at least still has Cap to make a deal then...honestly he needs to do it now (this summer) because on New Years Day who is going to want to watch a losing team in the Classic? If Holland does not ice a team that people want to watch, this can and maybe will be Detroit's LAST Classic... You cannot have a Winter Classic full of AHL'ers....that is what the Winterfest is for...

Im holland signed semin that would easily be worse than not signing him

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This is very disappointing. I agree with bringing up our younger players I've been saying that for the past 3 to 5 years and I think that is a huge step in the right direction and it is fine if don't sign anymore players, however if we aren't in the running to make a big trade to get what we need I think it's a big mistake. If the oppertunity presents it'self to go after a big play via trade than I think we should. We may not need much or anymore help on Offense but our Defense has still taken a big hit and I do believe we need to do something there. I'd love to see Smith come in and be the next Lidstrom but even if he can that may take some time. Yes I'm dissappoited just due to the fact that I really wanted to hear some Big News this Off-Season. I'm over the whole Suter and Parise thing but we still need help on D. It's fine if Holland wants to save money for down the road, I completely agree with that. However I can't say I'm very confident in the success of our team as it sits right now. I love this team and I always will. I don't have 4 Detroit Red Wing Tattos forever on my body only to turn my back on them now however this is another "What the F^*K is Holland thinking" situation imo.

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Well Holland's not an idiot. He won't tell the media "HOLY s*** I'M DESPIRATE! I'LL PAY ANY PRICE".

Come on,his words were he'll do everything he can to get Suter/Parise,and it's not like the media don't know we are desperate to get d-men after Lidstrom/Stuart departures

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I have lost some faith in Holland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI8GEidaMMI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Holland has known Lidstrom was going to be leaving since the year-to-years started....

True but he didn't know which year that year-to-year would end and here's the rub, he didn't have the cap space to compensate for Lidstrom until Lids retired which makes it kind of hard to plan ahead.

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I'm really surprised that so many are still defending Holland here. If it were just the lack of moves this offseason at play, then I'd understand. It would be dumb to throw too much money at low-quality talent because we didn't pull off the main plan. But as I've said in the past and many others are seeing now, this is a problem that's been brewing for four years now.

He should've made the moves to have pieces in place to build on when Lidstrom left 2-3, maybe even 4 years ago, but he didn't want to move anybody. He should've been actively shopping for a big time young defensemen after we won our last Cup, and yes, he should've given up legitimate, Red Wing-developed talent to do so, hard as it may.

If you ask me, Holland's chief and most critical objective for the last five year has been coming up for a replacement for Lidstrom. They knew it was coming, and they knew the loss would be huge; there could be no bigger hole than the hole left by Lidstrom in this era. The way it's looking now, it is highly likely that the 2012/13 season will start and Holland will have failed to come even remotely close to addressing the hole left by Lidstrom.

But again, to be perfectly clear, Holland didn't fail this summer. He failed for the last 4 years. He keeps coming up with nothing in the off-season and he even admitted in 2009 that he was shocked and unprepared for what happened when all our free-agents walked and we had no real Plan B.

Hell, people are pissed we didn't get Parise this year at a cap hit that would've sat around $7.5 million, but we let Hossa walk who could've been had for a $5 million cap hit because we didn't want to part with guys we developed, despite the fact that they've been inconsistent or wholly unproven performers.

But to be fair, I'm no saying Holland's a bad GM or wouldn't be capable of building a winner again, but I am increasingly of the opinion that he has run his course as the Wings GM. I think he's become too soft and cautious, and I'd venture to say at times out of touch with reality (again, see summer 2009). I think it's easy to gravitate to extremes on this issue and say Holland is a mastermind because of what he accomplished in the past just as easy as it is to say he rode on the coattails of Scotty Bowman's influence. Maybe the true answer is somewhere in between. Maybe he's just too close to this organization and the people in it to make objective opinions. And maybe he's not.

But in any event, in the last 4 years, any way you shake it, he's given no reason to believe that he's still got even a hint of that magic touch still, and even if you want to focus on the positives in his history and his overall capability as a GM, you still have a long way to go in defending the last 4 years of mediocre GMing. After all, even he admitted he blew it in '09, and Babcock all but slammed him about his lack of moves last summer to address problems he saw in the team.

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What if it is Ilitch who decided to stop spending up to the cap seeing that the "parity" is indeed there and "any team" (not "can" but "must") must win? Have you thought about that? It is business and if you know you're not winning anyway why to spend up to the cap?

Edited by RusDRW

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I'm content with this group. They are a mediocre bunch who could maybe surprise some people. They're not the Leafs or the Oilers.

I'm also content with the sofa that I got in 1976. It's ugly earth-tone paisley and my dad had to beef it up with plywood in spots, but it'll do until I get something better.

Pretty much like the Wings. What we have is good. That doesn't mean we aren't shopping around to get better. It just means that we're not going to throw out the babies with the bathwater and blow up the team en route to getting better players.

Trades? FA signings? Sure, if they improve the team at a reasonable price.

One can be content and still looking to improve. It just means that what one has is servicable.

Now if Holland had said, "I'm tickled pink with this team!" then I would worry.

I am not afraid of the team being a bottom feeder, a Columbus or an Edmonton, that's not the worst place to be. These teams maybe on the bottom now, but they are using that to collect pieces for the future, they have no where to go but up. The team I don't want the Wings to be like is Calgary. Calgary is never good enough to go much further than either a last week of the season elimination or a first round exit. They never are bad enough to have to really take a serious look at rebuilding, but never good enough to take that next step. They always look good on paper as a team, and on paper you always have to think they are a threat to be the team to come out of nowhere and do well. Since 2004 their team has always had (on paper) a goalie that can steal games, a lot of big name d-men, and a forward corp that has a great mix of grit and skill. But every year they just seem to never go anywhere more than 7-10th place. This is what I am afraid of, not being terrible, but being mediocre.

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True but he didn't know which year that year-to-year would end and here's the rub, he didn't have the cap space to compensate for Lidstrom until Lids retired which makes it kind of hard to plan ahead.

That's why you sometimes have to trade people to bring talent in, especially when you're talking about replacing one of the best players to ever live.

But March was fun and all; like a trailer. And maybe, like a trailer, we saw the "highlight" (if we're previewing the low points of a Red Wings team without Lidstrom…), but either way, the Wings without Lidstrom was an ugly, ugly, scary site.

Now we've lost Stuart too don't forget, and Holland hasn't addressed that loss, which arguably should have been easier to do! No cakewalk in this day and age, but more of an attainable goal than replacing one of the best who was still playing great hockey.

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You know what? I like the situation we are in, here is why. We are going to find out just how good we are. How good of a GM is Ken? Were going to find out. How good are all of our prospects? Lots of young guys are going to get a real chance to play this year. Our true depth will be exposed this year, good or bad. How good of a coach do we have? Babcock is going to have to coach his ass of this year. How big time are Datsyuk, Z, and the mule? Thoes guys must have monster years. Can they do it? We are going to find out. I f@cking pumped to find out. I think this is exactly what this club needs, a chance to prove them selves. This is great motivation, something we have been lacking. The Red Wings are going to see just how good they are and I feel good about it.

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What if it is Ilitch who decided to stop spending up to the cap seeing that the "parity" is indeed there and "any team" (not "can" but "must") must win? Have you thought about that? It is business and if you know you're not winning anyway why to spend up to the cap?

I'd be shocked if Illitch had anything to say about conserving money at the expense of the team's ability to win.

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You know what? I like the situation we are in, here is why. We are going to find out just how good we are. How good of a GM is Ken? Were going to find out. How good are all of our prospects? Lots of young guys are going to get a real chance to play this year. Our true depth will be exposed this year, good or bad. How good of a coach do we have? Babcock is going to have to coach his ass of this year. How big time are Datsyuk, Z, and the mule? Thoes guys must have monster years. Can they do it? We are going to find out. I f@cking pumped to find out. I think this is exactly what this club needs, a chance to prove them selves. This is great motivation, something we have been lacking. The Red Wings are going to see just how good they are and I feel good about it.

Maybe, but how fun will it be if it blows up in our faces? And what's more likely to happen at this point? And some of these guys have had time to prove themselves and have continually fallen short. Others are getting older despite still being elite players. And in some of these cases, it's not necessarily a matter or effort or ability so much as chemistry and balance, and that's something that needs to be addressed by bringing in the right parts and selling off what isn't working or what you can afford to lose. That's not to say that the season doesn't have potential to be exciting and rewarding, but you also can't say that we've had more than a bit of time to observe this team and many of these players in moments of adversity the last few years. We had holes then and terrible injury luck at times, and now we just have more holes, as well as the biggest hole we've had in the modern era, and still more players getting older. I'll cheer the team on no matter what, but this is just an ugly situation any way you shake it.

esteef likes this

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Maybe, but how fun will it be if it blows up in our faces? And what's more likely to happen at this point? And some of these guys have had time to prove themselves and have continually fallen short. Others are getting older despite still being elite players. And in some of these cases, it's not necessarily a matter or effort or ability so much as chemistry and balance, and that's something that needs to be addressed by bringing in the right parts and selling off what isn't working or what you can afford to lose. That's not to say that the season doesn't have potential to be exciting and rewarding, but you also can't say that we've had more than a bit of time to observe this team and many of these players in moments of adversity the last few years. We had holes then and terrible injury luck at times, and now we just have more holes, as well as the biggest hole we've had in the modern era, and still more players getting older. I'll cheer the team on no matter what, but this is just an ugly situation any way you shake it.

It is a better situation to have it blow up, with room to change. Than have it blow up when you are spending to the cap and have to buy out contracts.

Holland is being smart.

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