Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Shawn Thornton attacks Orpik (leaves game on stretcher)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
165 replies to this topic

#61 vladdy16

vladdy16

    The rest are neophytes.

  • HoF Booster Mod
  • 6,246 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:49 AM

NBC Sports did a quick write-up about this.  They quoted an interview they say Thornton gave "recently".  Here's a quote:

 

He recently spoke out in favor of fighting, while a debate about whether that element should be taken out of the game rages on.

“I don’t know the numbers so I probably shouldn’t [say] but I think a lot more concussions are happening from head hits than fighting, but any time anyone gets punched in the face and gets hurt, people jump all over it,”he recently told Katie Strang of ESPN.

“I think there’s an agenda. I’m not sure where it’s coming from. I won’t say it’s changing the tide, but I think there’s definitely more of an agenda nowadays.

“People could probably criticize that I’m a little too honorable, I suppose, in some instances. I’ve been a firm believer my whole life that what goes around comes around.

“If you’re one of those guys that suckers someone when they’re down or you go after somebody that doesn’t deserve it or isn’t the same category as you, that will come back and bite you at some point, too.”

 

 


Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

- mjlegend 3/9/2011

#62 miksteri

miksteri

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 482 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:14 AM

Im almost sure that Neal gets nothing for his knee to the head and Thornton gets at least 5 games.



#63 rick zombo

rick zombo

    Grit

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,286 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:18 AM

I blame Marchand for being an annoying little f*****. 

 

Actually, I blame that mutant Sedin guy for letting Marchand punch him the face 26 times in that playoff game and not retaliating. 

 

Actually, whatever.  :sleepy:

 

Marchand’s a dick.

Neal’s a dick.

Thorton’s a dick.

Orprik’s a dick. 

 

Live by the sword, die by the sword. 

 

(suspend them all)


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#64 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,749 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:20 AM

Im almost sure that Neal gets nothing for his knee to the head and Thornton gets at least 5 games.

I know neither players history regarding suspensions in the past; if I were placing a bet on this - I'd say Neal might get a 'slap on the wrist' (as in no games, or maybe 3, or 4 games max), and since Thornton's a legit 'tuff guy' he'll get nothing less than 5 - probably closer to 8 to 10 games.



'Evolution' created by Offsides

#65 Crashnburnluder

Crashnburnluder

    Crashnburnluder

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,270 posts
  • Location:Lancater, Pennsylvania

Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:41 AM

So far only thing I saw about suspensions was that Neal was getting a phone call and it will be less then 5 games... both guys should get multiple games but we both know Thornton will get the book thrown at him and Neal will get off with a game or two.. either way, both gutless plays, but this is back to one of the situations where the final result will dictate the action... If Marchand leaves on a stretcher the suspension on Neal is longer, if Orpik doesn't get knocked out, there is likely no suspension on Thornton... 



#66 DeGraa55

DeGraa55

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,943 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:45 AM

So far only thing I saw about suspensions was that Neal was getting a phone call and it will be less then 5 games... both guys should get multiple games but we both know Thornton will get the book thrown at him and Neal will get off with a game or two.. either way, both gutless plays, but this is back to one of the situations where the final result will dictate the action... If Marchand leaves on a stretcher the suspension on Neal is longer, if Orpik doesn't get knocked out, there is likely no suspension on Thornton...


I agree.

#67 RedWingsRox

RedWingsRox

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,144 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, BC

Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:46 AM

So apparently, here is the NHL's instigator/aggressor rule (from Yahoo article ).  Question where the hell was Shanahan when Emery was pummeling Holtby? 

 

Since it's a rarely-cited rule, here's a refresher course on the important section from the league rulebook:

The aggressor in an altercation shall be the player who continues to throw punches in an attempt to inflict punishment on his opponent who is in a defenseless position or who is an unwilling combatant.

 

A player must be deemed the aggressor when he has clearly won the fight but he continues throwing and landing punches in a further attempt to inflict punishment and/or injury on his opponent who is no longer in a position to defend himself.


Edited by RedWingsRox, 08 December 2013 - 01:50 AM.


#68 WingsAlways

WingsAlways

    Grind Line 2.0

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 367 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 02:35 AM


Knee to the head is at the 2:00 min mark.

 

Why didn't anyone go after #87 at the 1:57 mark for slew footing Marchand? Oh yeah, because he took his ***** ass off the ice shorty after...

 

You can see the video in better clarity and a slightly different angle at NHL.com ( http://www.nhl.com/i...id=nhl:topheads ). You can see Crosby trip up Marchand right before the knee to the head by Neal, then like the good captain he is heads to the bench as soon as he gets a hint of an ensuing scrum. You'll find more guts in a piece of roadkill.

 

This whole ordeal was a mess and I'm glad nobody got seriously injured, but let's give credit where it's due. 


Edited by WingsAlways, 08 December 2013 - 02:55 AM.

"Wow Chicago, you've won four Stanley Cups? Me too! - Kris Draper"


#69 Nev

Nev

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,085 posts
  • Location:Lincolnshire, England

Posted 08 December 2013 - 04:47 AM

Forgive my ignorance...When did Orpik become a hated guy?

 

Just curious since I've never heard/read anything 'bad' about him.

 

As GMR already pointed out - this is nothing new to hockey - just that we don't see it as often in todays game.

 

He injured Darren Helm with a knee on knee hit in 2008 game 6 that put him out - but because we won the cup that night, no-one noticed or cared.

 

Then a couple of years ago he injured Franzen with a knee on knee hit.  No-one saw it or cared - because it was a pre-season game.  Bertuzzi supposedly pounded him in a fight, but footage of the hit and fight were never released in the highlights package by the pens.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#70 Nev

Nev

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,085 posts
  • Location:Lincolnshire, England

Posted 08 December 2013 - 04:54 AM



As someone who's a big proponent of fighting in hockey, I hate to see s*** like this because I know what it's eventually going to lead too. Stuff like this by Thornton, and John Scott attacking a skill player, is going to get fighting banned in hockey. This isn't the 70's or the 80's anymore, enforcers need to provide protection and keep teams honest. Not attack players who are considerably more talented then them, clean hit? Sure, please do. That's your role, dirt like this? You're going to cost yourself a job down the line. When even Don Cherry (pro fighting, pro Bruins) is visibly upset by it, you know it's not good.

 

You're right it will lead to the ban of fighting, but for more than the reasons you suggested.  You say enforcers need to provide protection and keep teams honest., we're forever hearing on this board how we need Probert/Kocur/McCarty 2.0 to stop teams cheap-shotting us.  Yet here we are with a Bruins star player getting kneed in the head.

 

A Bruin.  A big, bad, Boston Bruin.  A team (supposedly) so nasty they could play Rollerball.  And all their toughness and meanness did nothing to stop one of their star players getting kneed in the head.  So tell me again how enforcers police the game and stop cheap-shots.


"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#71 cusimano_brothers

cusimano_brothers

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,615 posts
  • Location:Niagara Falls, ON

Posted 08 December 2013 - 08:36 AM

Sadly, this is the kind of incident that has to be cleaned up after the fact.

It's a shame that Shanahan is the man on the job.

Once again, he has a chance to send a message to one and all...loud and clear.

Let's see what happens.


"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#72 rbochan

rbochan

    Top Prospect

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 90 posts
  • Location:Syracuse, NY

Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:12 AM

 John Scott will get 25 games for this.



...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs;
it's Don't Tread On Me.

#73 GoalieManPat

GoalieManPat

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,414 posts
  • Location:Swartz Creek, MI

Posted 08 December 2013 - 09:35 AM

Dunno if handing out larger fines, and longer suspensions will thwart certain violent acts at the NHL level...A bit off base, and maybe a poor analogy on my part, but we see people serving lifetime sentences in prison, and yet there's still people commiting crimes/murder.

 

As I've mentioned in the 'Retaliation' thread; maybe the only solution to ending these types of attacks is to remove checking from the game at the NHL level.

 

So your a big fan of womans hockey then. Checking will never be out of the game. It moves to fast to not touch anyone.



#74 Red Crazy

Red Crazy

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 630 posts
  • Location:Manitoba, Canada

Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:10 AM

The Orpik hit was clean. People can call him what ever they want but this hit WAS clean. Thornton will get a big suspension which he probably deserves. Thornton went after the wrong guy Neil should have been his target. Orpik paid for the cheap shot antics of his team mates. Crosby, Neil etc.



#75 Wings_Dynasty

Wings_Dynasty

    The Greatest Ever

  • HoF Booster
  • 3,816 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:51 AM

 

Why didn't anyone go after #87 at the 1:57 mark for slew footing Marchand? Oh yeah, because he took his ***** ass off the ice shorty after...

 

You can see the video in better clarity and a slightly different angle at NHL.com ( http://www.nhl.com/i...id=nhl:topheads ). You can see Crosby trip up Marchand right before the knee to the head by Neal, then like the good captain he is heads to the bench as soon as he gets a hint of an ensuing scrum. You'll find more guts in a piece of roadkill.

 

This whole ordeal was a mess and I'm glad nobody got seriously injured, but let's give credit where it's due. 

If you think what Crosby did was dirty you need to re-evaluate your definition of dirty. I dislike Crosby as much as the next guy, but come on dude, he was playing the puck and tripped a guy. Let's not be the site that makes up s*** Crosby does when there is plenty he does that we don't have to exaggerate. You also need to look up what a slew-foot is. A good example is what Thornton did to Orpik before he started punching.

 

The Orpik hit was clean. People can call him what ever they want but this hit WAS clean. Thornton will get a big suspension which he probably deserves. Thornton went after the wrong guy Neil should have been his target. Orpik paid for the cheap shot antics of his team mates. Crosby, Neil etc.

I say it was as much of interference as what Kronwall got called for when he laid out Havlat. He anticipated the puck being touched by Eriksson and would have been a perfectly timed hit had he actually touched it. Thornton will be suspended because ESPN even covered it. Neil should actually get a similar suspension to Thornton since you could cleary see that he extended his leg to make contact with Marchand's head.

 

As a side note, something that isn't actaully being talked about was how Thornton actually prevented Orpik's head from hitting the ice after he slew-footed him by holding onto his jersey. That doesn't excuse his actions, but it at least lets you know that he wasn't looking to "injure" him only "hurt" him once he got him down. Or it's just a coincidence. Weird logic, but I noticed it.


Current LGW Whippin' Boy: Referees

 

HTBanner400x100.jpg


#76 F.Michael

F.Michael

    Old School Dynamic Duo

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,749 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:53 AM

 

So your a big fan of womans hockey then. Checking will never be out of the game. It moves to fast to not touch anyone.

Hi - I'm F.Michael - maybe you don't know me all to well so let me take the time to introduce myself...

 

For those who've been here these past several years knows that I'm a proud member of the 'Knuckle Dragger Club' (well it's sorta unofficial)...Anywho - I am one of a handful of dinosaurs here at LGW who loves a good fight between 2 willing combatants, and still feels it to be beneficial to have a handful of guys on the roster who can take a reg shift, and get their noses dirty when needed.

 

Now  - with that being said...As expected - there's disgust of what we had seen with last night's game...My point was that if we wish to see this form of behavior removed from the game at the NHL level - we may as well go ahead, and eliminate checking from the game along with fighting...Many may forget that much of these violent acts begin with what may be deemed a dirty hit from an opponent, and as both GMR, and Nev pointed out to me - Orpik has a habit of injuring opponents with questionable body checks, and is generally not well liked.

 

Long story short - eliminating fighting from the game won't keep it 'clean' to a level that some would prefer; as you rightfully pointed out - the speed of todays game combined with physical play via checking will most likely cause some injuries, and heated exchanges between opponents...I myself don't mind seeing these sorts of rivalries form since IMHO it creates some of the best hockey to watch (Red Wings vs Avalanche anyone?).

 

Well - that's my take on that.


Edited by F.Michael, 08 December 2013 - 11:00 AM.


'Evolution' created by Offsides

#77 esteef

esteef

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 8,874 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:29 PM

 

Marchand’s a ****.

Neal’s a ****.

Thorton’s a ****.

Orprik’s a ****. 

 

Live by the sword, die by the sword. 

 

(suspend them all)

 

This, although I actually like Thornton.  Both teams have guys that stir it up good then run away so this is not surprising.  Too bad we didn't have Thornton when Datsyuk was "accidentally elbowed in the jaw".

 

esteef


"The Wings haven't won a Cup without Darren McCarty since 1955."

#78 Rivalred

Rivalred

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 7,307 posts

Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:36 PM

Both players need to have the book thrown at them. Bone head move
D-Fence Avatar Win-O-Meter 8-1

#79 The Greek

The Greek

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 403 posts
  • Location:L-Town

Posted 08 December 2013 - 12:55 PM

F. Michael,

 

You're being a little disingenuous by framing your argument like that.  You just declared that as long as hitting is in the game, then stuff like this will always happen.  Therefore, we should either take out hitting or leave fighting to help mitigate these types of situations.  Of course, almost no one wants to take out hitting, so we have to conclude that fighting must be in the game.  However, the situation is not as you say it is. Look at Cooke.  He has had his face punched in many times because of his cheap shots.  What actually caused him to change his game?  A lengthy suspension.  When you go after these guys' paycheck, then they'll start paying attention. 



#80 Z Winged Dangler

Z Winged Dangler

    Part 3: Return of the Hammer Hands

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,219 posts
  • Location:Winnipeg, MB

Posted 08 December 2013 - 01:11 PM

@NHLPlayerSafety: Details of Neal hearing: http://t.co/vdH3yfgDnl

Neal should have been dished out a match penalty as well. Both acts were dangerous and bushleague.
@NHLPlayerSafety: Details of Thornton hearing: http://t.co/bzXwMaX4xD


"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.






Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users