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MabusIncarnate

ECQF - Game 4 - Bruins 3 at Red Wings 2 (F/OT)

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These are not our problem (ranked by GAA):

7 Jimmy Howard DET 3 3 1 2 0 87 6 2.02 81 .931 1 0 0 0 178:05

13 Jonas Gustavsson DET 1 1 0 1 1 40 3 2.43 37 .925 0 0 0 0 73:32

This is:

5 Tuukka Rask BOS 4 4 3 1 0 119 4 0.96 115 .966 1 0 0 0 251:26

Take out the 3 goalies that haven't played a full game and we have the #4 and #10 goalies in the playoffs right now.

Our offense is anemic and Boston was a bad draw for the first round.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20143ALLGAGALL&sort=goalsAgainstAverage&viewName=summary

Ranked by Sv% Howie is 4th and Monster is 7th.

We're getting good/great goaltending.

Edited by FireCaptain

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Guest DeGraa55   
Guest DeGraa55

Well we got to see a relatively healthy Wings team this series. And they weren't nearly as good as we thought they'd be. Big changes this off season. Series is over. I've never seen the Wings so roundly outplayed in a series. Even the sweeps were more competitive.Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Don't say "not nearly as good as we thought they'd be".

After game one I sent my coworker an email saying boston in five. The wings are a worse team. Even IF EVERYONE is healthy I stil. Think they're worse. And boston doesn't have a z or a dat they just have a super solid team top to bottom.

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Peter Laviolette is a coach who has been to two Finals with two different teams and won a Cup. He is looking for a fresh start. He will command respect from his players because of his background.

Time for a fresh change. For Babcock too. He should go to a Cup contender that's looking to get over the hurdle.

the preds want laviolette as their head coach too

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These are not our problem:

7 Jimmy Howard DET 3 3 1 2 0 87 6 2.02 81 .931 1 0 0 0 178:05

13 Jonas Gustavsson DET 1 1 0 1 1 40 3 2.43 37 .925 0 0 0 0 73:32

This is:

5 Tuukka Rask BOS 4 4 3 1 0 119 4 0.96 115 .966 1 0 0 0 251:26

Take out the 3 goalies that haven't played a full game and we have the #4 and #10 goalies in the playoffs right now.

Our offense is anemic and Boston was a bad draw for the first round.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20143ALLGAGALL&sort=goalsAgainstAverage&viewName=summary

A bad draw? lol..you get a bad draw when you finish 8th. There young guys are playing like men and our young guys are playing like boys. I love our young players and what the future holds but right now they are just a better team full of grown ass men. Take all the stats you want, pile them up, blame the coach, blame the goalie, we are getting beat by a fantastic team..we had our chance in the first tonight to go up by 3-4 goals and we didnt, they didnt panic and they out classed us for the last half the game. I dont know what we can do to win 3 in a row but I'm not shutting the door on this goofy season yet..stranger things have happened.

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Yes. Of course. No coach in their rightf****** mind would want to come here and play for Holland. Why would anyone want to do that? No one resects the Wings organization and their lack of repeated success. All the good coaches want to go to model franchises like Toronto and Vancouver.

I agree that most coaches would jump at the chance to coach for Detroit, but Holland is circling the drain. The last 5 years have been a string of abysmal signings and free agent acquisitions. He was handed the keys to the Cadillac with Yzerman, Lidstrom, and a host of other star players, and every year we've lost talent and replaced it with either imports / minor league players that don't live up to their billing or washed up free agents. Ken Holland gets way too much credit for the Red Wings' success. All of his "accomplishments" can be attributed to the talents and machinations of Mike Ilitch, Jim Devellano, Bryan Murray, Scotty Bowman, and Mike Babcock.

Edited by MPT

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The Babcock presser was...special. Lots of awkward silence. I couldn't tell if he was being ambiguous about Howard or not perhaps due to injury, but he didn't seem to suggest he'd be back for game 5. Maybe he was just trying to be positive about Gus incase he has to go, but when asked about who was starting game 5, he said something like "I don't know, but Gus played great for us, so there's something to think about." I thought Gus was great tonight and I think he's done a fine job as a backup, but I really don't want to have to tempt fate with him again in a game 5 situation. The whole situation is a little bizarre though. Howard was circled on the roster Babcock submitted. I know it's playoffs and you're always going to get ambiguity when questioning guy's statuses, but this feels awkward even for playoffs. Really hoping it was just sickness and not an injury.

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Its sad that big E really could have swung this series in our favour. 1/3 shifts we have Kindl-Lashoff making mistakes and this has just killed us all series.

I still can't believe he's been out this long with a broken finger. I've never fully warmed up to the guy like some, and this just fits in with the image of him that I have, which is soft and clumsy. I know he's improved, and we all know he'd be a huge help right now given that we have Lashof and Kindl stinking up the 3rd pairing on a nightly basis, but I can't believe Zetterberg is back playing after what he went through and E's still out with a ******* broken finger, in the playoffs. It's probably a weirder issue than I understand, I admit, but it just doesn't quite smell right.

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I agree that most coaches would jump at the chance to coach for Detroit, but Holland is circling the drain. The last 4 years have been a string of abysmal signings and free agent acquisitions. He was handed the keys to the Cadillac with Yzerman, Lidstrom, and a host of other star players, and every year we've lost talent and replaced it with either imports / minor league players that don't live up to their billing or washed up free agents. Ken Holland gets way too much credit for the Red Wings' success. All of his "accomplishments" can be attributed to the talents and machinations of Mike Ilitch, Jim Devellano, Bryan Murray, Scotty Bowman, and Mike Babcock.

Was Holland supposed to decline the job because it was too good? I'll give you Bowman but Bryan Murray? c'mon . Sometimes the hardest jobs to do are when the expectations are as high as they are in Detroit. We've won a cup with him as GM and never missed the playoffs. If you don't like the guy that's fine but to strip the guy of any credit for anything he's done here is ignorant and well timed considering we just lost a game.

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Yes. Of course. No coach in their rightf****** mind would want to come here and play for Holland. Why would anyone want to do that? No one resects the Wings organization and their lack of repeated success. All the good coaches want to go to model franchises like Toronto and Vancouver.

We're gonna turn into Toronto or Vancouver pretty soon if Holland doesn't cut thef****** bulls***

Was Holland supposed to decline the job because it was too good? I'll give you Bowman but Bryan Murray? c'mon . Sometimes the hardest jobs to do are when the expectations are as high as they are in Detroit. We've won a cup with him as GM and never missed the playoffs. If you don't like the guy that's fine but to strip the guy of any credit for anything he's done here is ignorant and well timed considering we just lost a game.

Pretending that he's not responsible for the poor personnel decisions made since that last cup is also pretty ignorant....

Edited by roboturner

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I'm a emontional wreck right now

I understand. The loss definitely sucks, especially against a bunch of s***-bags, with the most insufferable fan base in the world. In the end, we have no control over the outcome. The only people who should be emotionally wrecked are the ones who decided to quit playing hockey as soon as the faced some adversity.

Edited by The Greek

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I agree that most coaches would jump at the chance to coach for Detroit, but Holland is circling the drain. The last 5 years have been a string of abysmal signings and free agent acquisitions. He was handed the keys to the Cadillac with Yzerman, Lidstrom, and a host of other star players, and every year we've lost talent and replaced it with either imports / minor league players that don't live up to their billing or washed up free agents. Ken Holland gets way too much credit for the Red Wings' success. All of his "accomplishments" can be attributed to the talents and machinations of Mike Ilitch, Jim Devellano, Bryan Murray, Scotty Bowman, and Mike Babcock.

Maybe he gets too much credit for those earlier teams, but I won't take it away from him either because ultimately, he was getting the job done, and just because there was no cap doesn't mean it was always easy. I will say that I think he made some moronic decisions that remind me of his more recent decisions though in the no cap era, such as bringing Hasek back that 2nd time. It just wasn't a classy move at all after signing Joseph, and we absolutely didn't need him with Joseph. But for the most part, he got the job done, kept the team Bowman built running smoothly, tweaked it when need be, and again, I'm just not going to take that away from him at this point, knowing what I know now.

But as successful as he was, that has not been the case at all in the cap era at least since we really started to have to deal with it. He's failed on so many levels and let this team sink far lower than was necessary. Our early success hinged on Franzen and Z making very little money, that nice cap rollback coming off the first season, and bargain basement veteran goaltending from Osgood that was good enough to shut out the Penguins in the first two games of the finals of the way to winning the Stanley Cup.

Ever since we had to start making serious decisions about guys and building the team in a new way, he's seemed completely flummoxed. Hell, even he's admitted that he was shocked and unprepared for what the offseason brought in the first couple years. Then it just became "we like our team" when he couldn't or wouldn't make moves or sign guys. He's let assets go for nothing, he's failed to improve the defense, he's made far more bad free agent signings than good, and the last two years, the teams he put together in the offseason ended up having to be carried by our Grand Rapids kids to make the playoffs. We are clearly a team running on fumes at this point, and as the two key guys that have kept this team competitive consistently decline with age and retire, we will be in very serious trouble if Holland hasn't changed his ways or been replaced.

Again, if we go out unceremoniously this season, if it was my call, he'd be out as GM. I would keep him in the organization if possible, because I don't think he's useless, but the breaking point for me was after two seasons of failing to improve our D at all from the outside after losing Rafalski, Stuart and Lidstrom, he was still signing forwards when we already had too many last August. That was when I really lost my faith in him being able to get the job done. Maybe he still could find a way to build a great team in another organization where he was more emotionally disconnected, but in Detroit, I just don't think he has the stomach to make the tough calls and take chances anymore, and it's why this team has been in decline since 2009.

And that Babcock's done what he has with the pieces he's been given continues to impress me. I think it's absurd that people want him gone. Nobody's perfect, and it's unfair to expect them to be, but he's overcome a lot and kept this team competitive and in the hunt year after year despite losing key players, dealing with Holland's lousy signings, and then all of the injuries the last couple years. He's maintained a pattern of success relative to what he's been given and had to deal with.

The same cannot be said for Holland at this point. Maybe he got unlucky and it could've been different if Weiss had played more of the year and helped us, but he didn't, and the health issues weren't a secret when he was signed either. Bad luck or bad decision, it doesn't change the fact that he's had four seasons in a row now where he's mostly failed to help make this team better. They've been in decline since 2009, there's been far more bad signings than good in that span of time, and our saving grace the last two years has been either Dats and Z carrying the team (and definitely Howard too last season) or kids from GR coming up and playing better than they should and maybe ever will again.

Enough is enough.

And to those who say that at least we are in the playoffs, I hear you on one level. It shows we still have a solid core and I think Babcock deserves credit there too. But consider then that given our ability to still make the playoffs in spite of so many clear failings in the GM department, imagine how much better we might be had we made better decisions the last four years. Imagine if instead of overspending on some of the useless forwards we'd signed, we overspent on even a solid mid-level defenseman instead. Imagine that, you know, we overspent in a way that actually addressed our ridiculously blatant needs. Everybody's overspending. It's the nature of the beast. We are too, we're just doing it in a colossally ass backwards way.

This team could be better and absolutely should've been better for some time. If Holland can no longer help then be better, it's time for him to go, simple as that. After all, sometimes change is good. Sometimes it's bad. Same thing goes for no change though. At some point you just have to take that risk though when things aren't working. If we can keep Holland in the organization and retain the scouting staff, I don't think we have anything to lose.

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Laviollete? Really? Thats everyones suggestion after this?

First off: He is NOT a good coach. Philly suddenly becomes one of the best teams in the league once he gets fired...okay.

Plus hes unemployed for a reason, lots of teams are looking for a head coach.

I am not a babs supporter by any means but he belongs here and does a good job, this team is much better with him than without.

Second, its the team Holland gives to babcock that is the issue. You think any coach can make a team whos second best defenceman is kyle quincey make it past the first round? Let alone make it to the playoffs.

The bottom pairing of Kindl-Lashoff? We probably have a tied series if not for that hole Holland decided to ignore

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Laviollete? Really? Thats everyones suggestion after this?

First off: He is NOT a good coach. Philly suddenly becomes one of the best teams in the league once he gets fired...okay.

Plus hes unemployed for a reason, lots of teams are looking for a head coach.

I am not a babs supporter by any means but he belongs here and does a good job, this team is much better with him than without.

Second, its the team Holland gives to babcock that is the issue. You think any coach can make a team whos second best defenceman is kyle quincey make it past the first round? Let alone make it to the playoffs.

The bottom pairing of Kindl-Lashoff? We probably have a tied series if not for that hole Holland decided to ignore

Laviollete is not unemployed,since he is gonna coach usa at the world championship and is also on the predators list for their next coach

Edited by PredsFanTheBayouState

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cant believe people are calling for babcock's head - just look at the roster of the wings vs the bruins and it should be clear where the blame lies! they are superior in every area and should have swept the series. the only area we are even close is at forward and even there they have far better balance. hell the wings dont have a single top 6 winger!

it is remarkable that the wings even made the playoffs with the defence we have.

a few years ago our top 4 was lidstrom, rafalski, stuart and kronwall; now it is kronwall, dekeyser, ericsson and smith. that is just depressing!

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Guest DeGraa55   
Guest DeGraa55

cant believe people are calling for babcock's head - just look at the roster of the wings vs the bruins and it should be clear where the blame lies! they are superior in every area and should have swept the series. the only area we are even close is at forward and even there they have far better balance. hell the wings dont have a single top 6 winger!

it is remarkable that the wings even made the playoffs with the defence we have.

a few years ago our top 4 was lidstrom, rafalski, stuart and kronwall; now it is kronwall, dekeyser, ericsson and smith. that is just depressing!

You kind of lose credibility when you can't even get the top four right. Quincey and DK are together. Smith is only on top line(where he should stay) because Ericsson is hurt.

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You kind of lose credibility when you can't even get the top four right. Quincey and DK are together. Smith is only on top line(where he should stay) because Ericsson is hurt.

yeah you are right - replacing smith with quincey makes the top 4 respectable!

quincey, kindl, laschoff and smith are all much of a muchness - they are all crap. i struggle to see how replacing the coach would make any difference - the wings would still have a vastly inferior roster to the top teams.

it is the guy that has overseen the wings go from having the best top 4 in hockey to having one of the worst in the space of a few years that has to take the blame

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I love the optimism. But the Wings haven't competed with Boston the last three games for more than one single period.

And somehow they will win three straight? We don't have anymore tricks up our sleeve.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

I didn't say they would win the series but they could still steal a game in Boston. They probably won't but I'm just saying I'll be watching it.

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