Regner: Next year could be Babcock's last

[Dabura 12,207]

Regner: Babcock has one year to live

[Euro_Twins 4,477]

Regner: Babcock has one year to live

The babpocalypse is Nye

[BottleOfSmoke 5,965]

The babpocalypse is Nye

I heard this in possessed Jonah Hill's voice

[FireCaptain 563]

Well, this oughta get the tin foil hatters clucking again.

At least Holland is consistent, he low-balls the coach too.. haha

The first assumption is that money will not be an object, that the Red Wings will give Babcock all the money and all the term he wants and that if Babcock leaves, it will be for a better situation. There is no salary cap on what coaches can be paid, so that begs the question, why would a superstar coach such as Babcock not make $5 million a year? Joel Quenneville, who has won two Stanley Cups in the past four years, is believed to be the highest-paid coach in the NHL at about $2.5 million, which is ridiculously low because it’s less than the average player salary.

Babcock will almost certainly become the game’s highest paid coach, whether it’s with Detroit or someone else, but Red Wings GM Ken Holland doesn’t seem to be eager to be the one to set a precedent.

“That’s not the way I negotiate,” Holland said. “I use the word fair, but fair is different for lots of people. Otherwise you’d have coaches making $20 million. This is a business and I’m in charge of making business decisions and we all have responsibilities. That’s how the business runs. In the industry, when you’re charged with the responsibility of managing an operation, you try to make sure everyone is treated fair in the industry, fair in the organization.”

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/turns-out-money-will-be-an-object-in-babcock-negotiations/

[frankgrimes 1,836]

not surprised he still believes everyone including coaches is lining up to be a Wing. If the wings lose Babcock well that would mean even less arguments to bring to players in.

He will be the highest paid coach in hockey no matter what, if Holland low balls him Babs will move on and win some cups in steel town.

You can bet Mario, Tannenbaum and a bunch of other teams would pay him 5 million per no matter what

[kliq 3,755]

not surprised he still believes everyone including coaches is lining up to be a Wing. If the wings lose Babcock well that would mean even less arguments to bring to players in. He will be the highest paid coach in hockey no matter what, if Holland low balls him Babs will move on and win some cups in steel town. You can bet Mario, Tannenbaum and a bunch of other teams would pay him 5 million per no matter what

You think he should be paid double what the highest paid coach is getting?

Don't get me wrong, I love Babs, but that seems a bit ridiculous.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

If that's what it takes sure. Babcock has all the leverage here his salary doesn't count against the cap and his resume is unreal. I don't think Quenville is the highest paid coach, I think it's Carlyle

[kliq 3,755]

If that's what it takes sure. Babcock has all the leverage here his salary doesn't count against the cap and his resume is unreal. I don't think Quenville is the highest paid coach, I think it's Carlyle

From what i've read, in 2013 Carlyle wasn't even top ten.

I think one could argue that Babs should be the highest paid coach in the league, but double the salary of the #2 paid coach is going way too far IMO.

[Guest DeGraa55]

He should be at like 3m maaaaaaybe 3.5m. 5m is too high lol

[frankgrimes 1,836]

He should be at like 3m maaaaaaybe 3.5m. 5m is too high lol

It was just an example maybe he ends up at 2,8, 3 or maybe 4,5 we will never know it. I mean all those sums are speculations although by reputable sources.

As for Carlyle I'm a bit shocked given how much pressure Toronto has and the big $ machine that is MLSE one would expect a huge contract.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Say what you want about the way Holland negotiates contracts, but I think he is right in trying to get a "fair" contract. That goes for players and coaches. I'm quite okay with Holland not overpaying on free agents and trying to sign his own players and coaches to reasonable deals. I wish more GM's across the league would have this same mentality. If that were the case, we probably wouldn't even know of the term "lock-out"...

I'm well aware that the coaches salaries are not included in a teams salary cap but it can still effect the state of the league. So, Babcock gets paid $5M next season, is anyone so naïve to think that all other coaches negotiating new contracts won't demand a little (lot) more. Even though they may not be on the same level as Babs in terms of accomplishments, I don't think he is twice as good as every other coach in the league. What happens when coaches such as Darryl Sutter, Joel Quenneville, Claude Julien, Ken Hitchcock (who in my opinion are pretty darn close to Babcock) need a new deal? They also get double their previous contract, based on Babcock's new contract, and it just keeps escalating.

Same goes for free agent players, and that's why so many players in the league today are waaaay overpaid. There is a bidding war for mediocre players every single year and I love that Holland doesn't like to overpay and wants to get a "fair" contract. Ken Holland will never be the cause of an NHL lock-out and for that I appreciate what he is trying to do.

No man (player or coach) should be paid the sums of money these guys are making but that's another topic...

[The Secret 304]

You think he should be paid double what the highest paid coach is getting?

Don't get me wrong, I love Babs, but that seems a bit ridiculous.

2 stanley cups + 2 olympic golds + most wins as a wings coach + somehow managed to get last years limp penoose of a team into the playoffs for the 23rd year in a row + proven at every level and in every way with every other team in the league watching for the slight chance Holland mucks things so they can swoop in to steal him away..... Give him his 5 Mill... make him the highest paid and be proud to have him.

You never let a proven player like Hossa slip away like we did and you should never let a proven #1 coach slip away either. We aren't exactly the preferred destination of free agents at this point in time and if you subtract Babcock its even less of a draw. Babcock + Health = Success and more players wanting to come to the new budding Detroit Red Wings!

Edited September 16, 2014 by The Secret

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Say what you want about the way Holland negotiates contracts, but I think heis right in trying to get a "fair" contract. That goes for players and coaches. I'm quite okay with Holland not overpaying on free agents and trying to sign his own players and coaches to reasonable deals. I wish more GM's across the league would have this same mentality. If that were the case, we probably wouldn't evenknow of the term "lock-out"...

I'm well aware that the coaches salaries are not included in a teams salary cap but it can still effect the state of the league. So, Babcock gets paid $5M next season, is anyone so naﶥ to think that all other coaches negotiating new contracts won't demand a little (lot) more. Even though they may not be on the same level as Babs in terms of accomplishments, I don't think he is twice as good asevery other coach in the league. What happens when coaches such as Darryl Sutter, Joel Quenneville, Claude Julien, Ken Hitchcock (who in my opinion are pretty darn close to Babcock) needa new deal? They also get double their previous contract, based on Babcock's new contract, and it just keeps escalating.

.

Over 6 million this summer are saying otherwise but whatever Babcock is the best coach in hockey and he is trying to keep a rapidly declining team in the playoffs, all while his GM didn't help him out the last few years.

This is an original six team so run it like one who cares if other coaches demand more? In fact this whole thing is really simple Holland had 2 weeks to get it done or Babcock is gone because other teams will line up for his services and pony up the amount of cash he wants.

Personally I'm sick of terms like fair contact, hockey deal and kicking the tires he is paid to get the job done, period. If the wings lose Babcock they also fall further down the top ufas list! This negotiation should be damn easy give him a blank cheque and be proud to have Babcock!

Edited September 16, 2014 by frankgrimes

[Dabura 12,207]

This team went from the defacto class of the NHL to still contender, to behind the top pack to playoff contender..that's just not good enough for a proven winner like Babcock.

This is why I'm inclined to think he stays on for at least a couple more years.

Mike Babcock is an alpha male. And he has an ego. (He wants to be the "biggest swinging **** in the room, any room.") And he believes in "Leaving No Doubt" that you are as good at your job as you'd have people believe you are. And, at this stage in his career, he wants a challenge that's going to push him to learn some new things and become an even better coach and hockey mind and person. And, finally, he believes in being a Good Man and doing The Right Thing and facing things head-on, head held high, "No big deal, I got this, because if I don't got this, well, that's just unacceptable. Because I'm Mike Babcock, and I'd like to think I'm a Good Man." Further, he's coached Lidstrom, and also Datsyuk in Datsyuk's prime, winning a Cup with them.

All of this, taken together, says to me that he's going to want to guide the Wings back to contention and win another Cup with them in two or three years. Heading to Toronto or Pittsburgh would be easy, expected. A lesser coach might do that. A lesser man might do that. Power, money, media fellatio - all tempting. But is that why Mike Babcock's in this business? Not saying he doesn't want those things, but I feel like he'd want that golden ticket to Willy Wonka's factory only after he's "Left No Doubt" and helped coach a team that everyone had written off back to the top of the mountain. That way, there's no "Oh, that Mike Babcock. He's a great coach, sure, but you have to admit he's overrated. He gets Anaheim to Game 7 of the SCF, but he can't get the job done. He realizes this was a miracle run for the Ducks that he's not going to be able to replicate and he jumps ship to perennial contender Detroit. Any coach could've won a couple Cups with those Wings teams, and, actually, he only managed to win one. And those Olympic gold medals? Any person with half a brain could've coached those Canada teams to gold. Then, when things got really hard in Detroit and Lidstrom was nowhere to be found, he jumped ship again. This is a guy who, while certainly brilliant, knows how to pick his spots to enhance his aura. I don't rate him much higher than Dan Bylsma, tbh. If Bylsma had coached those Olympic teams, he'd have one Cup and a couple gold medals, same as Babcock. Scotty Bowman was - and is - a living legend. That's a man who'd really earned the right to pick a role of his choosing in an organization of his choosing. Babcock isn't necessarily the best coach in the league right now, let alone a Scotty Bowman. And no one knows that better than Babcock. That's why he left Detroit instead of sticking it out and trying to prove beyond any doubt that, like some crazy SEAL Ninja Jedi Master, you could dump him in the middle of the ocean and when you get home that night he'll be making love with your woman in your bed, because he's just that damn good."

Edited September 16, 2014 by Dabura

[krsmith17 7,191]

Lol, well said Dabura. On top of all that is how well he is treated by the Red Wings, the classiest organization in the NHL, probably all of sports. Why would he be so quick to leave that? I don't think he really has any intension in leaving, he's just got to play a little hardball to get what he along with Kenny thinks is the right deal.

Also, with all the talent in the pipeline, coming up over the next few years, that may be another enticing reason to stay in Detroit. I'm willing to bet he can see the brightness at the end of the tunnel that most fans can't seem to see. I just don't see him signing with another team, he'll be resigned for another 4 years.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Babcock has nothing to prove he got a very bad wins team into the playoffs. If the offer isn't good enough for him - which could easily - happen he will take Mario's offer and coach a prime Malkin, Crosby, Letang and Maata to another Stanley cup while the Wings will struggle to make the playoffs, that's the reality and the truth.

In Tennis I would say advantage Babcock.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'm not really sure how that is the "reality"... Until Babcock even hints at the possibility that he may entertain offers from other teams, he is a Red Wing, that is the "reality"...

I'm pretty sure Holland has a pretty good idea of what Babcock's intentions are after this season. I'm not worried. He loves it here, he is raising his family here, he isn't going anywhere...

And if he does decide to move on, I think it will be for far bigger reasons than money or term, and if that's the case, it is out of the GM's hands... So be it...

[Fred_Bear 8]

2 stanley cups + 2 olympic golds + most wins as a wings coach + somehow managed to get last years limp penoose of a team into the playoffs for the 23rd year in a row + proven at every level and in every way with every other team in the league watching for the slight chance Holland mucks things so they can swoop in to steal him away..... Give him his 5 Mill... make him the highest paid and be proud to have him.

You never let a proven player like Hossa slip away like we did and you should never let a proven #1 coach slip away either. We aren't exactly the preferred destination of free agents at this point in time and if you subtract Babcock its even less of a draw. Babcock + Health = Success and more players wanting to come to the new budding Detroit Red Wings!

When and where did he get the 2nd Cup?

I'm sorry, but I'd respectfully disagree. Babs is a great coach, but several people have said it, these guys are paid to perform and rewarded for it. At a certain level, though, two guys can't get credit for the same job. Is Holland putting the right players on the roster or is Babs extracting more from less? My point is - if Holland is putting the 'right' guys on the roster, Babs isn't getting enough out of them and, conversely, if Babs is getting the Wings into the playoffs with a sub-par squad, then Holland isn't doing his job. If everyone in management is doing their jobs, how are we a 'borderline' playoff team? Holland already got an extension and credit for his job...

If Babcock feels he 'deserves' to become the highest paid coach in the NHL, I hope Holland does let him walk. I'm not trying to take anything away from Babcock, but he did take over the defending President's Trophy winner in 05-06, a team which had made the playoffs 14 consecutive times, and three years later he won his only Stanley Cup. I'm not trying to say he's not successful or that he doesn't get a ton out of his players. But a good coach in a great organization has to be that much better to stand out.

Compare Babcock's Wings to Bowman's Wings - 9 playoff seasons each - 1 Cup (Babs) to 3 Cups (Bowman) - 2 President's Trophies (Babs) to 3 for Bowman - Bowman has an Adams' while Babs does not - Babs has an edge in regular season win pct. but in the playoffs - Babs 0.542 to Bowman 0.642.

Again, not saying Babs isn't a solid coach, but the Wings won't fold as an organization without him.

[kliq 3,755]

2 stanley cups + 2 olympic golds + most wins as a wings coach + somehow managed to get last years limp penoose of a team into the playoffs for the 23rd year in a row + proven at every level and in every way with every other team in the league watching for the slight chance Holland mucks things so they can swoop in to steal him away..... Give him his 5 Mill... make him the highest paid and be proud to have him.

You never let a proven player like Hossa slip away like we did and you should never let a proven #1 coach slip away either. We aren't exactly the preferred destination of free agents at this point in time and if you subtract Babcock its even less of a draw. Babcock + Health = Success and more players wanting to come to the new budding Detroit Red Wings!

I also think he should be the highest paid coach, my point was he shouldn't be paid DOUBLE what the highest paid coach is getting.

[Euro_Twins 4,477]

I also think he should be the highest paid coach, my point was he shouldn't be paid DOUBLE what the highest paid coach is getting.

Well when he signed his current contract he WAS the highest paid coach, so I think he will be again. Probably will end up around 3m/season

When and where did he get the 2nd Cup?

I'm sorry, but I'd respectfully disagree. Babs is a great coach, but several people have said it, these guys are paid to perform and rewarded for it. At a certain level, though, two guys can't get credit for the same job. Is Holland putting the right players on the roster or is Babs extracting more from less? My point is - if Holland is putting the 'right' guys on the roster, Babs isn't getting enough out of them and, conversely, if Babs is getting the Wings into the playoffs with a sub-par squad, then Holland isn't doing his job. If everyone in management is doing their jobs, how are we a 'borderline' playoff team? Holland already got an extension and credit for his job...

If Babcock feels he 'deserves' to become the highest paid coach in the NHL, I hope Holland does let him walk. I'm not trying to take anything away from Babcock, but he did take over the defending President's Trophy winner in 05-06, a team which had made the playoffs 14 consecutive times, and three years later he won his only Stanley Cup. I'm not trying to say he's not successful or that he doesn't get a ton out of his players. But a good coach in a great organization has to be that much better to stand out.

Compare Babcock's Wings to Bowman's Wings - 9 playoff seasons each - 1 Cup (Babs) to 3 Cups (Bowman) - 2 President's Trophies (Babs) to 3 for Bowman - Bowman has an Adams' while Babs does not - Babs has an edge in regular season win pct. but in the playoffs - Babs 0.542 to Bowman 0.642.

Again, not saying Babs isn't a solid coach, but the Wings won't fold as an organization without him.

Take bowmans teams in those 9 years and compare it to babs teams. Babs best team wasn't nearly as good as bowmans

[gcom007 1,465]

Anyone who knows me on these boards at this point knows I'm no longer a Holland supporter, but you've got to be reaching here to be making a big deal out of this. Babcock should get paid, and will get paid, and Holland won't lowball him on money. There's no need and even he's not stupid enough to take that chance. He's just defending the line for the media. If Babcock leaves, it won't be about money. Any amount of money any team would reasonably throw at him would be matched by the Wings.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Anyone who knows me on these boards at this point knows I'm no longer a Holland supporter, but you've got to be reaching here to be making a big deal out of this. Babcock should get paid, and will get paid, and Holland won't lowball him on money. There's no need and even he's not stupid enough to take that chance. He's just defending the line for the media. If Babcock leaves, it won't be about money. Any amount of money any team would reasonably throw at him would be matched by the Wings.

Don't forget the Illitches they will for sure have to say something about this too and I'm very sure they'd pay whatever it takes to keep him here. But Babs is as driven as they come the guy wants to win - because let's be honest he is a proven winner - and the change to not coach a prime Crosby, Malkin or guys like Pietrangelo, Backes, Schwartz will for sure factor into his decision.

If he leaves because he doesn't believe this team will win a Stanley Cup soon (which is more than realistic), I wouldn't hold it against him. But man oh man playing against a Babcock coached teams with superstars good luck to the rest of the league *g*

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Compare Babcock's Wings to Bowman's Wings - 9 playoff seasons each - 1 Cup (Babs) to 3 Cups (Bowman) - 2 President's Trophies (Babs) to 3 for Bowman - Bowman has an Adams' while Babs does not - Babs has an edge in regular season win pct. but in the playoffs - Babs 0.542 to Bowman 0.642.

Again, not saying Babs isn't a solid coach, but the Wings won't fold as an organization without him.

Babcock has had a salary cap, Bowman did not.

That being said, I think that it's time for Babcock to move on. Coaches have a shelf life, and Babcock is at the upper limits of his.

[Fred_Bear 8]

Take bowmans teams in those 9 years and compare it to babs teams. Babs best team wasn't nearly as good as bowmans

Based on what? Both teams had approximately the same regular season records. Relative to the rest of the NHL during their time periods, they were quite similar. I do agree that the current Wings squad is a 'step' down from some of the veteran-filled rosters of years past and I'm interested to see what Babs can do with it. Last year was the first time he's ever had success with a 'young' team at the NHL level. That was the most rookies he's employed in a season and the most games by first-year players. From what I've read, that's a big reason they brought in Tony Granato as an assistant, to work more with the younger guys.

Babcock has had a salary cap, Bowman did not.

True, but neither did the rest of the NHL at that time. The bigger difference was that Bowman's teams were on an upward trajectory while Babcock's have been in decline. Babcock took over a veteran team and eight years later the 'kids' from that team are older and they haven't supplemented with as much veteran talent.

The system has to work as a whole, in my opinion. Babs is great with veteran teams (his early Wings squads, Team Canada, even some of his successful Chiefs teams during his WHL days were 'veteran' by comparison). If the Wings are going to make a youth movement, can Babcock adapt? Does he want to?

[ShanahanMan 473]

He could pretty much go to any team he wants. The guy obviously doesn't want to coach forever, and our team is far far from being a playoff caliber team, so I don't blame him one bit for seeking greener pastures. I actually think given a team like the Sharks, Tampa Bay, or even the Flyers, he could take all of them to the next level.

Edited September 17, 2014 by ShanahanMan