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Nightfall

Compliance buyout expected to be used on Tootoo

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The signing of Tootoo and the result of buying him out is just a further indication that Babcock and Holland do not agree on the direction of the team. I would be really surprised at this point if Babcock resigns as coach after his contract expires this year unless Holland gets off his ass and makes this team a winner once again.

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The signing of Tootoo and the result of buying him out is just a further indication that Babcock and Holland do not agree on the direction of the team. I would be really surprised at this point if Babcock resigns as coach after his contract expires this year unless Holland gets off his ass and makes this team a winner once again.

My mom and I must hate each other, you should see the sweater she bought me at Christmas. It was awful.

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The signing of Tootoo and the result of buying him out is just a further indication that Babcock and Holland do not agree on the direction of the team. I would be really surprised at this point if Babcock resigns as coach after his contract expires this year unless Holland gets off his ass and makes this team a winner once again.

When Tootoo was signed Babcock was quoted as asking for a right handed shot, that provides both speed and sandpaper.

Holland got him Tootoo who provided all 3. Unfortunately for all involved his lack of PK ability, his tendency to get way out of position going for the big hit and his struggles to play within the Wings system quickly took him out of the coaches good graces.

I don't think the divide between Holland and Babcock is any bigger than any other coach GM relationship. He gets his say on every roster decision the team makes, which is more than can be said for a lot of coaches out there.

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When Tootoo was signed Babcock was quoted as asking for a right handed shot, that provides both speed and sandpaper.

Holland got him Tootoo who provided all 3. Unfortunately for all involved his lack of PK ability, his tendency to get way out of position going for the big hit and his struggles to play within the Wings system quickly took him out of the coaches good graces.

I don't think the divide between Holland and Babcock is any bigger than any other coach GM relationship. He gets his say on every roster decision the team makes, which is more than can be said for a lot of coaches out there.

What I find frustrating is what were Babcock/Holland expecting when Tootoo was signed?

It's not like Toots was some 30 plus goal scorer lurking in the shadow, and all he needed was a chance with a 'better' club.

Oh well - hopefully he'll sign back with the Preds, or somewhere else in which he'll play on a reg basis.

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I think teams should have to pay 100 % of a players contract if they decide to buy them out, it doesn't count against the cap and the players would have a little more security.

Also the Tootoo situation is a bad one, I've always been against this signing saying that I'm really wondering what Holland and Babcock expected out of this guy ? If you bring in someone like Tootoo you should expect energy, a scrap here and there and some decent low ice time minutes nothing more. Hopefully he can sign somewhere else and retool his career there.

I'm really starting to think that this front office has a false idea of what a fourth line should and shouldn't be.

Nothing but the best of luck for him.

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Guest DeGraa55

I think teams should have to pay 100 % of a players contract if they decide to buy them out, it doesn't count against the cap and the players would have a little more security.

Also the Tootoo situation is a bad one, I've always been against this signing saying that I'm really wondering what Holland and Babcock expected out of this guy ? If you bring in someone like Tootoo you should expect energy, a scrap here and there and some decent low ice time minutes nothing more. Hopefully he can sign somewhere else and retool his career there.

I'm really starting to think that this front office has a false idea of what a fourth line should and shouldn't be.

Nothing but the best of luck for him.

Umm they do? Like lecavlier will be getting paid by the lighting for next like 14 years?

Instead of say 1.8m for tootoo 1 year it's now .9 for two years but no cap hit.

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Actually it's 2/3 of the contract value. Tootoo will get 1.3 million over 2 years.

And if they're younger than 26, they only get 1/3 of the contract value. At least according to capgeek.

http://capgeek.com/faq/how-do-buyouts-work

It's something that I don't remember being talked about that much when the lockout ended, but is a pretty big deal. Players contracts are no longer 100% guaranteed. If bought out they get paid at most two-thirds the value and over twice the length of time of the contract. So it's less money spread over a longer term.

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Actually it's 2/3 of the contract value. Tootoo will get 1.3 million over 2 years.

And if they're younger than 26, they only get 1/3 of the contract value. At least according to capgeek.

http://capgeek.com/faq/how-do-buyouts-work

It's something that I don't remember being talked about that much when the lockout ended, but is a pretty big deal. Players contracts are no longer 100% guaranteed. If bought out they get paid at most two-thirds the value and over twice the length of time of the contract. So it's less money spread over a longer term.

Still can't believe the PA agreed to that

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As much as I would love to get rid of the head case mule, at the end of the season its hard to argue his numbers. He always seems to limp into the top in scoring and such. I think people are forgetting about Weiss, unless I'm missing something that wont allow him to be bought out, he is the perfect candidate for the buyout in my mind.

Well technically Weiss could be bought out, but part of his salary would still count against the cap. He's not eligible for a compliance buyout but the Wings could use a regular course buyout on him if they wanted to. Might as well give him (hopefully) a healthy year to see what he can do before even thinking about that recourse though.

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The issue with Franzen is that his points tend to come in bunches and tend to be in games where they are next to meaningless. If he scored a hat trick in a 7-1 game that makes his stats look great, but does that get Detroit any closer to being relevant? Tootoo should be bought out, Cola shouldn't have been, as he, when he wasn't injured was better than Kindl and Lashoff, and when he was injured he didn't count against the cap anyway.

Edited by Shaman

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The issue with Franzen is that his points tend to come in bunches and tend to be in games where they are next to meaningless. If he scored a hat trick in a 7-1 game that makes his stats look great, but does that get Detroit any closer to being relevant? Tootoo should be bought out, Cola shouldn't have been, as he, when he wasn't injured was better than Kindl and Lashoff, and when he was injured he didn't count against the cap anyway.

I keep seeing that argument against Franzen about him being hot in meaningless moments, but I'm not sure where it came from. I remember thinking last season when he was red hot "thank god Franzen is scoring". I don't have the numbers to back this statement up but I remember having the thought that his hot streak last season was clutch. Then when he slowed down Nyquist rocketed forward. My point is I just don't know of "he scores in meaningless situations" really has any validity. If someone has the numbers that say otherwise that's cool, I'll accept that. My feelings on Franzen are mixed, I'm definitely not trying to blindly defend him.

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I keep seeing that argument against Franzen about him being hot in meaningless moments, but I'm not sure where it came from. I remember thinking last season when he was red hot "thank god Franzen is scoring". I don't have the numbers to back this statement up but I remember having the thought that his hot streak last season was clutch. Then when he slowed down Nyquist rocketed forward. My point is I just don't know of "he scores in meaningless situations" really has any validity. If someone has the numbers that say otherwise that's cool, I'll accept that. My feelings on Franzen are mixed, I'm definitely not trying to blindly defend him.

I agree on this one. Just after the Olympic break Franzen was on fire, there was the hat-trick in Ottawa that essentially kept us floating for a while and then Gus got hot for the rest of the year and carried us. I know what you mean though, Franzen is really frustrating that he is so streaky, I wish he'd be more consistent too. I think most of us here will probably remember though that he went to sleep when it counted most this year, and that's the playoffs.

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The issue with Franzen is that his points tend to come in bunches and tend to be in games where they are next to meaningless. If he scored a hat trick in a 7-1 game that makes his stats look great, but does that get Detroit any closer to being relevant? Tootoo should be bought out, Cola shouldn't have been, as he, when he wasn't injured was better than Kindl and Lashoff, and when he was injured he didn't count against the cap anyway.

Spot on post - couldn't agree any more.

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I keep seeing that argument against Franzen about him being hot in meaningless moments, but I'm not sure where it came from. I remember thinking last season when he was red hot "thank god Franzen is scoring". I don't have the numbers to back this statement up but I remember having the thought that his hot streak last season was clutch. Then when he slowed down Nyquist rocketed forward. My point is I just don't know of "he scores in meaningless situations" really has any validity. If someone has the numbers that say otherwise that's cool, I'll accept that. My feelings on Franzen are mixed, I'm definitely not trying to blindly defend him.

Well - when we need the Mule to step it up - he usually doesn't.

Many will point towards his point production, and his cap value ratio - however he's still getting paid $5 million plus thru the 2015/2016 season...I'm all for using him as part of a package deal.

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Well - when we need the Mule to step it up - he usually doesn't.

Many will point towards his point production, and his cap value ratio - however he's still getting paid $5 million plus thru the 2015/2016 season...I'm all for using him as part of a package deal.

Like I said I've got mixed feelings about him, and it usually comes down to how I'm conflicted about his contract and how effective he'll be near the end of it. I just don't by into the argument that when he actually does produce, and in bunches, it's meaningless. He definitely didn't step up in the playoffs when we really needed him (though to be fair I'd say no one really did). But his hot streaks can and have turned the tide of some games. Just call me confused about this whole "he only scores during blowouts" thing until I see the numbers that indicate that.

Ps. Sorry that's my last post on Franzen in this thread, realized I've deviated from the topic. And on the topic I'm alright with the Tootoo buyout since a compliance buyout can't be used for Kindl.

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Guest DeGraa55

And if they're younger than 26, they only get 1/3 of the contract value. At least according to capgeek.

http://capgeek.com/faq/how-do-buyouts-work

It's something that I don't remember being talked about that much when the lockout ended, but is a pretty big deal. Players contracts are no longer 100% guaranteed. If bought out they get paid at most two-thirds the value and over twice the length of time of the contract. So it's less money spread over a longer term.

Whoops my mistake thought it was 100% either way only two buyouts for each team. But how does the regular buyout work is hat 100%?

And it's still crazy hockey like baseball pretty much always has guaranteed contract that's one thing the NFL has right.

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Whoops my mistake thought it was 100% either way only two buyouts for each team. But how does the regular buyout work is hat 100%? And it's still crazy hockey like baseball pretty much always has guaranteed contract that's one thing the NFL has right.

Regular buyout as far as I know is 100 % but over a longer period of time and counts against the cap.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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Regular buyout as far as I know is 100 % but over a longer period of time and counts against the cap.

All buyouts (except for those players under 26) are 2/3 the value over twice the term. Only difference between regular and compliance is there is no cap hit with compliance and there is a hit with regular buyouts.

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All buyouts (except for those players under 26) are 2/3 the value over twice the term. Only difference between regular and compliance is there is no cap hit with compliance and there is a hit with regular buyouts.
Oh OK thanks at least its longer term so players at least have some security

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Ok, don't waste the buyout on 22. He has 1 year left @ 1.9 million. We are going to have around 12 million to spend this year after resigning our RFA's before any buyouts. We don't need to waste the compliance buyout on him. If he isn't worthy of a roster spot, then cut him in camp. On a normal buyout 22 costs us about 640K each of the next 2 years. Franzen on the other hand costs us 4 million for the next 6 years.

here is an idea, put the 2 of them on the ice, have a 5 min timer, and tell them they are fighting for 1 job. Lets see who wins!

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If Franzen was not producing, I would be all for buying him out. The fact that he is producing means we should keep him. Since the compliance buyout is a use it or lose it, I say that Tootoo is the most logical target at this stage.

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Guest DeGraa55

If Franzen was not producing, I would be all for buying him out. The fact that he is producing means we should keep him. Since the compliance buyout is a use it or lose it, I say that Tootoo is the most logical target at this stage.

If you had to bet on it. Would you bet he remains a 25 goal a year player? Or continue his downward trend of scoring less and playing less due to injuries?

That's why I would've bought him out buts it's too late now. Holland has no balls and this team will continue to be mediocre for awhile.

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If you had to bet on it. Would you bet he remains a 25 goal a year player? Or continue his downward trend of scoring less and playing less due to injuries?

That's why I would've bought him out buts it's too late now. Holland has no balls and this team will continue to be mediocre for awhile.

Every player goes downward as they get older. That being said, buying him out at this stage accomplishes nothing. We have can't get his production from anyone currently in the system. No one who has the skill to produce like Franzen is going to sign here for less than $6 million a season and for a term that is as long as Franzen. Then we will be in the same boat we are in today. A veteran like Vanek that is going to demand more money to produce less and then keep producing less as he gets older.

So, in that situation, I would rather pay $4 to Franzen and just keep him going until the expiration of his contract. By the end of it, the salary cap will be high enough where aging veterans will be getting paid the same as he is right now.

Holland made the right call here. If he would have bought Franzen out, he would have gotten his balls cut off for sure. Especially when he would have made a change to bring in a more expensive player who produced less.

Tootoo was the best choice to be bought out. It shows that the Wings are a high class organization by assisting Tootoo at getting another shot in the NHL by releasing him early. Other players will take note.

Edited by Nightfall

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