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Datsyukian-Deke

2014 Offseason League Signings and Trades

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I like how you went from talking about loving that things are going towards math and science and away from gut feelings, and then wrote an entire paragraph on how this is a steal because of several gut feelings. Not saying that I disagree with you I just thought it was funny.

Great deal. But for the record I'd still package him for a good young top2/4 dman.

Nothing I said was a gut feeling. Everything I said were observations of watching him play. A gut feeling would be if I said " i feel like he will score 40 goals some day". Nothing like that was said. Edited by Datsyukian-Deke

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For whatever reason (boredom, schadenfreude, actual interest-take your pick) I am fascinated* with this situation:

@THNKenCampbell: Canadiens playing a dangerous game with P.K. Subban. My blog. http://t.co/qQEO7rdmMW

*exaggeration

I don't blame the Habs org for not wanting to pay an RFA 8.5 mil, but how do you not botch this relationship if they do, as the article suggests, take him to arbitration twice? Is he going to want to stay a Hab as UFA if his RFA negotiations are always tense?

Because I would looooove to have P.K. in a Wings uni...

PK has routinely expressed that he wants to be a Habs lifer. I think that's why he was willing to sign that last bargain deal. I'm betting he stays

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I think Gardiner has a ton of upside - however is it me, or did it seem as though he was in Carlyle's doghouse for much of the past 2 seasons?

It's why I'm thinking his role with the Leafs seems limited, and it's why he continues to be mentioned in trade rumors.

He had a breakout year this past season and isn't mentioned in any rumours nowadays. He was before but so is everyone in Toronto at one point or another when they struggle.

Among most of their fan-base, he's one of the few untouchables now. He does not seem like a "Carlyle-type player" and that's where most of the rumours stem from.

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I think Gardiner has a ton of upside - however is it me, or did it seem as though he was in Carlyle's doghouse for much of the past 2 seasons?

It's why I'm thinking his role with the Leafs seems limited, and it's why he continues to be mentioned in trade rumors.

I thought it was Gunnarsson that Carlyle didn't like? As I recall everyone in "the center of the hockey universe" (puke) thinks Gardiner is the second coming of...um....second coming of...Dion?

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I find it funny that after all the hoopla Justin Shultz is still unsigned in Edmonton. Has anyone heard any rumblings going on with him? Not that we could afford to add him to our roster, but I just thought it very funny that Edmonton "won" the sweepstakes and haven't yet tied him down for another 3 contract. I would, of course, rather have him than either Q or K...

Also, I see that Jeremy Welsh signed a minor league two-way contract with St. Louis for $550,000. Damn, I sure would've liked to have him the organization. Its only a one year though, maybe he could be one of those depth signings next season that Holland likes to do. He would have been a nice invite to training camp as well if he hadn't signed in St. Louis. They got them a nice solid depth player.

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He had a breakout year this past season and isn't mentioned in any rumours nowadays. He was before but so is everyone in Toronto at one point or another when they struggle.

Among most of their fan-base, he's one of the few untouchables now. He does not seem like a "Carlyle-type player" and that's where most of the rumours stem from.

The Problem is a Carlyle type player as ard to define as they come. One would assume Perry or Getzlaf were Carlyle type players but no, he butted heads with of them. Carlyle wants players who compete and compete hard I get that but he never ever mentions HOW they should compete. It's like a teacher telling his students to correct their mistakes but not now << 0 learning effect.

Also keep in mind this is Leafs Nation, they can go from Norris predictions to worst player ever! in a span of two games. Gardiner is a fine young kid he just needs to put his defensive game first and then think about the offense. I mean the media and some fans there are already predicting that this Dubas guy is already calling the shots, ya sure with Shanahan as VP, Nonis as GM and him being on the job for about a week...unreal.

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I find it funny that after all the hoopla Justin Shultz is still unsigned in Edmonton. Has anyone heard any rumblings going on with him? Not that we could afford to add him to our roster, but I just thought it very funny that Edmonton "won" the sweepstakes and haven't yet tied him down for another 3 contract. I would, of course, rather have him than either Q or K...

Also, I see that Jeremy Welsh signed a minor league two-way contract with St. Louis for $550,000. Damn, I sure would've liked to have him the organization. Its only a one year though, maybe he could be one of those depth signings next season that Holland likes to do. He would have been a nice invite to training camp as well if he hadn't signed in St. Louis. They got them a nice solid depth player.

DeKeyser is still unsigned with us, and we won the sweepstakes on him... What's your point?

So you weren't enthralled with the signings of all of the Nosek, Miele, Porter, Zengerle type players, but you wish we signed a 26 year old AHL checker with all of 25 NHL games on his resume?

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The Problem is a Carlyle type player as ard to define as they come. One would assume Perry or Getzlaf were Carlyle type players but no, he butted heads with of them. Carlyle wants players who compete and compete hard I get that but he never ever mentions HOW they should compete. It's like a teacher telling his students to correct their mistakes but not now << 0 learning effect.

For the record, Randy Carlyle is an impossibly awful coach. There've been countless looks into the matter (granted, with a fancy stats leaning), and they all scream that he doesn't know what the hell he's doing beyond telling his team to TRY HARDER!!! and BRING UP THEIR COMPETE LEVEL!!! and SHOW SOME HEART!!! and SLASH THE GUY!!! He won the Cup on the back of two generational defensemen in Niedermayer and Pronger and ever since then he's been exposed pretty much left and right, at least to anyone who bothers to really get into the numbers.

If I understand correctly, the "problems" with Gardiner stem from Carlyle not understanding what he has in Gardiner and not using him the way he ought to. The dumb-ass local media picks up on that, and suddenly he's a borderline "problem player" in many people's eyes. A kid who needs to "pay his dues" or something before The Coach can really trust him.

On that same note, Phaneuf is actually a really decent defenseman, not so different from Kronwall (aka the backbone of our own team at this point in time). Carlyle runs him into the ground, using him for a huge number of defensive zone starts when that's not necessarily his strong point. I give the guy credit. I don't know that there are many defensemen in this league who could take his spot and not look terribad.

On a side note, I hate that the Leafs are now making smart moves. What in the flying f*** is this world coming to when the Leafs have a better summer than the Wings?!

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DeKeyser is still unsigned with us, and we won the sweepstakes on him... What's your point?

So you weren't enthralled with the signings of all of the Nosek, Miele, Porter, Zengerle type players, but you wish we signed a 26 year old AHL checker with all of 25 NHL games on his resume?

Dekeyser was never really going anywhere else but Detroit. I guess there was an outside chance, but he said himself that there never really was any other contenders.

regarding Welsh, yes I do like all the other signings and I said Welsh could maybe be one if those signings next season when even more kids get promoted. He may only have 25 NHL games, but he us a solid AHL'r would could do spot injury time in the NHL. He would be very valuable within the organization as will be all of the signings this summer who may or may not see a Detroit uniform this season as well. Depth is a good thing.

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Dekeyser was never really going anywhere else but Detroit. I guess there was an outside chance, but he said himself that there never really was any other contenders.

regarding Welsh, yes I do like all the other signings and I said Welsh could maybe be one if those signings next season when even more kids get promoted. He may only have 25 NHL games, but he us a solid AHL'r would could do spot injury time in the NHL. He would be very valuable within the organization as will be all of the signings this summer who may or may not see a Detroit uniform this season as well. Depth is a good thing.

Justin Schultz was a holdout just to get where he was for his "sweepstakes". I'm not sure anyone should be surprised he's not re-signed yet. He went to Edmonton cause he knew with his extremely subpar defensive side of his game, he needed a team with god awful defense to be able to make the NHL roster without any competition. Sure he's good on the PP, but aside from that his game is complete ass.

If we have injuries on D, I'd much prefer seeing Sproul, Ouellet and Marchenko get the nod. Those 3 will be a big part of the Wings future no doubt and a 10 game sample for each this year could definitely be a good thing for the organization, hopefully with benchings of Kindl and Q as opposed to injuries.

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For the record, Randy Carlyle is an impossibly awful coach. There've been countless looks into the matter (granted, with a fancy stats leaning), and they all scream that he doesn't know what the hell he's doing beyond telling his team to TRY HARDER!!! and BRING UP THEIR COMPETE LEVEL!!! and SHOW SOME HEART!!! and SLASH THE GUY!!! He won the Cup on the back of two generational defensemen in Niedermayer and Pronger and ever since then he's been exposed pretty much left and right, at least to anyone who bothers to really get into the numbers.

Thank you. I say this all the time, Carlyle had 2 of the best defenceman to ever lace them up playing almost 30 mins a night on different pairs. I could've coached that team and won a cup. Plus they never get past us if our defense didn't look like - Lidstrom-Markov Quincey-Chelios Lilja-Lebda. And we forced em to 6 games and handed them a freebie in Game 5. (Carlye sucks and I still hate Anaheim)

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Thank you. I say this all the time, Carlyle had 2 of the best defenceman to ever lace them up playing almost 30 mins a night on different pairs. I could've coached that team and won a cup. Plus they never get past us if our defense didn't look like - Lidstrom-Markov Quincey-Chelios Lilja-Lebda. And we forced em to 6 games and handed them a freebie in Game 5. (Carlye sucks and I still hate Anaheim)

While I fully agree with the two alltime defenders thing I definately disagree with the "anyone could have coached them" argument on the other side, just SOME coaching experience at the NHL level would have been enough to coach this team to the cup.

MLSE has enough money so if the Leafs suck again this season, Carlyle will be gone that's for sure.

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While I fully agree with the two alltime defenders thing I definately disagree with the "anyone could have coached them" argument on the other side, just SOME coaching experience at the NHL level would have been enough to coach this team to the cup.

MLSE has enough money so if the Leafs suck again this season, Carlyle will be gone that's for sure.

.....making room for Babcock :ninja:

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I don't know why they're messing about with Subban so much. That bridge deal really killed them though. PK's going to get paid, whether it be now, or in 2 years time if he gets to free agency.

Agreed. Which side do you think had the most realistic estimate of his value for a one year contract?

As a refresher, Subban was seeking $8.5 million, while the Canadiens countered with a one-year contract worth $5.25.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/547282

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McKenzie:

My uneducated opinion from afar: MTL likes, maybe really likes, Subban but doesn't LOVE him. And you have to LOVE someone at 8 x $8-9M+ per.

More importantly, I guess, IF Subban doesn't feel the love from MTL, how eager is he to re-up there for eight years? Gonna be interesting.

https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie

Edited by Dabura

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Agreed. Which side do you think had the most realistic estimate of his value for a one year contract?

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/547282

Well if you'd have asked me what I thought he was probably worth I would have said about $7.5 per. But $9? No way. Neither side really had a realistic estimate, but they never are for arbitration hearings. Still, it sounds like the Habs got killed by the bridge deal combined with taking PK to 2 arbitrations. Certainly doesn't help with the relationship.

Now that they've got him signed, they'll be on the hook for driving up D men salaries for the next while also.

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It's not 2009 anymore. Why wouldn't you pay Subban 9 million? That's what superstars make. We can argue he has flaws but in the eyes of the league he is now top tier for what's available.

Having only a handful of free agents every year because of long term contracts also drives up prices.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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I think we all know by now and it's obvious that Holland is a respected man around the league but a terrible decision maker and was made to look like a hero when he took over a star-studded team that everyone wanted to play for and there were no cap concerns in stopping players from coming here. Well those glory days are over and we now see how truly incompetent Holland really is as a GM. I'm just wondering how long the Illitch family will be fooled into thinking he is still a top GM.

Another person on this board that has no idea how the Salary Cap works.

I was around here when the 2005 lockout was going on. I was only one of a few posters who didn't want a salary cap, because I knew it meant we couldn't go out an sign guys like Hull, or get Chelios at the deadline anymore.

The majority of people here wanted a salary cap, and now they expect things to still be like it was in 2001-02. Can't have it both ways.

not sure if anyone posted that Gardiner re-signed with Toronto for $4.05M...he was a RFA defenseman. So, this will probably be the starting point for DeKeyser. He will more than likely get a similar contract.

How many people have looked at the Leafs http://capgeek.com/mapleleafs/ they're in trouble next year!

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Guest DeGraa55

Another person on this board that has no idea how the Salary Cap works.

I was around here when the 2005 lockout was going on. I was only one of a few posters who didn't want a salary cap, because I knew it meant we couldn't go out an sign guys like Hull, or get Chelios at the deadline anymore.

The majority of people here wanted a salary cap, and now they expect things to still be like it was in 2001-02. Can't have it both ways.

How many people have looked at the Leafs http://capgeek.com/mapleleafs/ they're in trouble next year!

A salary cap is good for the entire league. Look at the nfl any team can win(as long as you're not owned by the fords, jones, or Davis families lol).

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I think we all know by now and it's obvious that Holland is a respected man around the league but a terrible decision maker and was made to look like a hero when he took over a star-studded team that everyone wanted to play for and there were no cap concerns in stopping players from coming here. Well those glory days are over and we now see how truly incompetent Holland really is as a GM. I'm just wondering how long the Illitch family will be fooled into thinking he is still a top GM.

Another person on this board that has no idea how the Salary Cap works.

I was around here when the 2005 lockout was going on. I was only one of a few posters who didn't want a salary cap, because I knew it meant we couldn't go out an sign guys like Hull, or get Chelios at the deadline anymore.

The majority of people here wanted a salary cap, and now they expect things to still be like it was in 2001-02. Can't have it both ways.

not sure if anyone posted that Gardiner re-signed with Toronto for $4.05M...he was a RFA defenseman. So, this will probably be the starting point for DeKeyser. He will more than likely get a similar contract.

How many people have looked at the Leafs http://capgeek.com/mapleleafs/ they're in trouble next year!

If we.could really lock him up for the same contract Holland has to do it no matter what.

Excellent posting in terms of the cap, I hated it the day it was implemented and will hate it till it's gone. Like we've seen time and time again - 3 times - it doesn't prevent lockouts ..

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If we.could really lock him up for the same contract Holland has to do it no matter what.Excellent posting in terms of the cap, I hated it the day it was implemented and will hate it till it's gone. Like we've seen time and time again - 3 times - it doesn't prevent lockouts ..

I like the cap, but completely agree that it induces lockouts.

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