Barry Trotz Wants Ovechkin to be more like Yzerman

[Adidarw 35]

Full article: http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/can-alex-ovechkin-be-fixed-ex-teammates-and-coaches-say-yes/

This is an article about Ovechkin. At the end, there is a bit about Trotz "fixing" Ovechkin. He notes Scotty Bowman turning Yzerman from a pure-offensive guy into a two-way player. Trotz wants to do the same to Ovechkin.

HOW CAN BARRY TROTZ FIX HIM? (Ovechkin)

Washington fired Oates and GM George McPhee, but owner Ted Leonsis’ intent was not to blow up the franchise. He’s reloading with Trotz and wants to keep building around Ovechkin.

“If I said to you, ‘Hey, I know how to fix him, 100 percent,’ I would probably be lying,” Trotz says. “I have an idea of how I would go about trying, and I believe in that method, and there has to be a little bit of a give and take on both sides.”

How will Trotz, known for hardworking, stingy teams during his 15-year run with the Nashville Predators, get through to Ovechkin, for whom the ice is permanently tilted toward the opposing goal?

Two words: Steve Yzerman.

Trotz cites the Hall of Fame pivot as proof that a pure offensive weapon can be transitioned into a two-way monster. Remember Yzerman’s early relationship with Scotty Bowman in Detroit? When Bowman called him out for not paying attention to defense, and Yzerman surfaced in trade rumors? Us neither. Yzerman responded so well that it’s easy to forget he wasn’t always known for two-way play. In Trotz’s eyes, that means Ovechkin isn’t a lost cause.

“Yzerman gave some of himself up on the offensive side of the puck to become a top talent on both sides of the puck, and they started winning championships,” Trotz says.

At the same time, Ovechkin will never be Yzerman. That’s not an insult. The two players have different strengths, and while Ovie can become more diligent in defensive zone coverage, he’s best used as an offensive weapon.

“He got 51 goals last year, and I’d love for him to get 52,” Trotz says. “But not at the expense of the other side of the puck.”

Trotz is as optimistic as any new coach should be and, if the testimony of people from Ovechkin’s past is to be believed, there may just be a special bond in the making here. Boudreau and Hanlon have incentive to pull punches, but Ovechkin’s retired teammates don’t, so it’s telling that they’re so supportive. Now, it’s Ovie’s turn to reward their faith and transition from boy to man in the NHL.

“I can reassure Barry that Alex is a great person that enjoys hockey and is driven to win the Cup,” Hanlon says. “Anything less will not satisfy him. He is one of the most enjoyable players I have coached. Form your own opinions on what you see on the ice. Any other opinions mean nothing.”

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Full article: http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/can-alex-ovechkin-be-fixed-ex-teammates-and-coaches-say-yes/

This is an article about Ovechkin. At the end, there is a bit about Trotz "fixing" Ovechkin. He notes Scotty Bowman turning Yzerman from a pure-offensive guy into a two-way player. Trotz wants to do the same to Ovechkin.

Love "Mr. No Neck". It would be great if he could get Ovie to respond. Interesting that he's referenced another player (Homer, meaning he wished he had a player like him) as well as Yzerman in an interview.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Ovi is the #1 goal scorer in the league, if he can even take some more time to play defense he can easily pot 40+ every year with his shot. He's already on pace for over 700+ goals in his career, if anyone is going to make him change it will be Trotz, if he can't then I doubt Ovi will ever change.

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

Ovi is the #1 goal scorer in the league, if he can even take some more time to play defense he can easily pot 40+ every year with his shot. He's already on pace for over 700+ goals in his career, if anyone is going to make him change it will be Trotz, if he can't then I doubt Ovi will ever change.

I would say stammer is #1, if he didn't break his leg last year he would have outscored ovie, not including last season (injury) or his rookie season, stamkos has out scored obie 3/4 times. But that really is up for debate because they are so close offensively, either one can have a case made to be considered #1/2.

If trotz could make ovie even half as good defensively as yzerman was, watch out for the capitals, they have all the pieces, they just need to put them together, and i think trotz is capable of making that happen.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

I would say stammer is #1, if he didn't break his leg last year he would have outscored ovie, not including last season (injury) or his rookie season, stamkos has out scored obie 3/4 times. But that really is up for debate because they are so close offensively, either one can have a case made to be considered #1/2.

If trotz could make ovie even half as good defensively as yzerman was, watch out for the capitals, they have all the pieces, they just need to put them together, and i think trotz is capable of making that happen.

In your opinion of course, however.

Ovi has a higher GPG in his career than Stammer, which is harder to sustain as more games you play, he also is the better goal scorer over Stamkos in general.

No definitive way anyone can say Stamkos would not have beaten Ovi last year either, Ovi was at a GPG at the 35 game mark last year, that hasn't been done in a long long time.

Edited September 20, 2014 by darkmanx

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

In your opinion of course, however.

Ovi has a higher GPG in his career than Stammer, which is harder to sustain as more games you play, he also is the better goal scorer over Stamkos in general.

No definitive way anyone can say Stamkos would not have beaten Ovi last year either, Ovi was at a GPG at the 35 game mark last year, that hasn't been done in a long long time.

Stamkos is much much more consistent than ovie, and the fact that ovie scored 35 goals in 35 games and then 16 goals in the next 43 games means nothing? Stamkos was on pace for 53 goals over the same 78 games, probably more if he never broke his leg.

[hooon 1,089]

I actually expect a big bounceback season from Washington in general, primarily due to Trotz back there. Unfortunately I see them as one of the teams that the Wings will be battling with for a WC spot most likely.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Stamkos is much much more consistent than ovie, and the fact that ovie scored 35 goals in 35 games and then 16 goals in the next 43 games means nothing? Stamkos was on pace for 53 goals over the same 78 games, probably more if he never broke his leg.

Difference is Ovi did 35 in 35, Stamkos didn't. On pace is exactly that, on pace.

Ovi is on pace for 700 goals in his career but that doesn't mean anything.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Ovie? Like Yzerman? More defensive?

Excuse me for a second while I…….

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Euro_Twins 4,485]

Difference is Ovi did 35 in 35, Stamkos didn't. On pace is exactly that, on pace.

Ovi is on pace for 700 goals in his career but that doesn't mean anything.

Like I said, Stamkos = consistent, so you can almost guarantee his on pace totals, will be pretty consistent with his season end totals, and Ovie is like a much more skilled franzen, he could get 50 goals in november and finish the season with 60. and prior to his injury Stamkos got more points than ovie 3 years straight.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Didn't Boudreau try this and Ovie fought the change and struggled? I thought that's what lead to his relative down years of 2010-12. And then Ovie's resurgence has been when the team has just let 8 be 8. I don't follow the Caps too closely, but that's the narrative I've picked up.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Yzerman was a center. Russian wingers aren't known for defensive play, nor should they. Yzerman was already past 30 when he started winding down offensively to play more defense.

Ovechkin's job is to score goals, play hard and lead by example. You don't have to be great defensively to be an effective player or a good leader.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Yzerman was a center. Russian wingers aren't known for defensive play, nor should they. Yzerman was already past 30 when he started winding down offensively to play more defense.

Ovechkin's job is to score goals, play hard and lead by example. You don't have to be great defensively to be an effective player or a good leader.

Fedorov, Bure, Mogilny - Russian wingers known for their two way game just off the top of my head.

Jingoism

Edit: Yes, Fedorov was a center. He's my all-time favourite player and I just had momentary brain-fart.

Edited September 21, 2014 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Like I said, Stamkos = consistent, so you can almost guarantee his on pace totals, will be pretty consistent with his season end totals, and Ovie is like a much more skilled franzen, he could get 50 goals in november and finish the season with 60. and prior to his injury Stamkos got more points than ovie 3 years straight.

Ovi played with some bad teams with no structure the last 3 years yet is still one of the top offensive players. Also, you do realize Beagle was centering him for half the year last right and not Backstrom and the year before he had Chimera centering him for a while as well. Stamkos always had St Louis.

My argument wasn't who had more points, my argument was Ovi is the better goal scorer which he is.How about not cherry picking stats, I can do the same, let's compare Ovi stats his first 5 years and then compare them to Stamkos, Ovi s***s all over him. Please don't compare Franzen to Ovi either...

Edited September 20, 2014 by darkmanx

[dirtydangles 1,328]

I want almost every forward on our team to be "more like Yzerman." I just don't think asking Ovi to change is going to make it happen.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Ovechkin is the epitome of the lazy, one dimensional Russian of this generation. He is waiting for the puck on the powerplay and unloads his crazy one-timer. The Captain wore the Wings logo deep in his heart, the return to glory started with him, Stevie even changed his whole game just to help out the team. The guy basically played some playoff series on one leg and NEVER complained. Making him captain has been a real mistake, he isn't a leader and never will be he is a very good goalscorer but really has no other ability.

Ovechkin is what he is and he will never change the words Yzerman and Ovechkin in the same sentence are just *LOL*

I hate to say it but the only guy who is close to become a lighter Yzerman is captain serious Jonathan Toews also at least to me the best pure goalscorer and TEAM guy is Stammer, he never complains is already elite and keeps working his butt off to be in even better shape each year, something that can't be said about Ovechkin.

btw. the sad thing is if more Russians were like Pasha and less like like Ovechkin, Kovalchuck there wouldn't even be a russian factor in the NHL and some of them could MAYBE turn into useful two way players.

Edited September 21, 2014 by frankgrimes

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Fedorov, Bure, Mogilny - Russian wingers known for their two way game just off the top of my head.

Jingoism

Fedorov was a center and Bure and Mogilny were not good defensively. Or is my sarcasm meter getting worse?

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

To be honest - I don't ever recall Bure, nor Mogilny backchecking very much (maybe Mogilny, but def not Bure)...I think Trotz will have his hands full with this, but good luck to him - I've always liked him as a coach.

I didn't how to back it up, but here, from Bure's wikipedia page:

"Early in Bure's career, he was noted for playing a strong two-way game. Having joined head coach Pat Quinn's defensive-minded Vancouver Canucks in 1991, his transition to the NHL was cited as being much easier than that of his countryman, Igor Larionov, due to his quick adjustment to the team's defensive demands.^[149] Regarding Bure's first NHL game against the Winnipeg Jets, reporter Mike Beamish explained that "hockey fans marvelled at his offensive thrusts, but hockey people were taken by a singular display of jet-powered defensive diligence. Bure was used on the team's penalty kill for his entire tenure with the Canucks, and was proficient at generating shorthanded chances, pressuring the opposition with his quickness and positioning in the defensive zone.^[151][152] During the 1992 Stanley Cup playoffs, commentator and ex-NHL coach Harry Neale commented, "I like the effort he gives it when he doesn't have the puck. We all know what he can do when he thinks he can score, but he's killing penalties, he's checking, doing a lot of things."^[153] Bure tied for second-place on Bob McKenzie's 1993 coaches poll for the NHL's best penalty killer.^{[147] "} Sports journalists Damien Cox and Stephen Brunt wrote about Bure during the 1994 Stanley Cup playoffs that he was a "two-way dynamo,"

Check Mogilny you'll find similar.

The Russian stereotype is just received opinion that people repeat (Thanks Don Cherry!). It's especially laughable to have a type when there's only 26 Russian players in the league. Here's a list that includes some extras that are just prospects (Marchenko, etc) probably gone (Loktionov, Belov, etc) or have only played a couple of games (Grigorenko)

http://russkiyhockey.wordpress.com/russians-on-nhl-teams/

Of the full-time players, only 8 are forwards. Datsyuk is Mr. Selke. Anisimov and Kulemin are two-way players. Tarasenko is developing into a very good two-way player.

Malkin's defensive game has been getting better.

Ovechkin, Semin, and Yakupov are bad eggs, but it's a mix as it probably is for other nationalities.

Edit: I realized that the conversation started about Russian WINGERS. The current crop of 4 (minus Tarasenko) do actually support the negative stereotype so I concede to GMRwings1983. It still seems wrong to me to form a stereotype on so few players, though, and I don't believe the majority of past Russian NHL players have fit this stereotype.

Edited September 21, 2014 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[RusDRW 155]

Fedorov, Bure, Mogilny - Russian wingers known for their two way game just off the top of my head.

Jingoism

Edit: Yes, Fedorov was a center. He's my all-time favourite player and I just had momentary brain-fart.

Fedorov was "soviet" center. Any center from those USSR teams knew how to play defense.

[Nev 1,085]

Yzerman was a center. Russian wingers aren't known for defensive play, nor should they. Yzerman was already past 30 when he started winding down offensively to play more defense.

Ovechkin's job is to score goals, play hard and lead by example. You don't have to be great defensively to be an effective player or a good leader.

He doesn't have to be great defensively, but do you think he could at least try to be average? He does the Controller Disconnected thing all over the ice, all the time.

Regarding Mogilny, the Devils used him on their checking line at the end of his career.

[number9 3,297]

Remember that comparing Ovechkin to Yzerman should be taken 100% literally. Ovi will now be as defensively responsible as a great defensive center is. Screw analogies.

[Fred_Bear 8]

Trotz should probably focus on fixing the Caps other problems rather than worrying too much about Ovi. I'm all for 2-way play, but you still need to score to win games. Any drop-off in Ovi's production isn't going to be easily picked up or replaced by anyone on that team. That is a huge difference between when Bowman had Stevie focus on 2-way play and the Trotz/Ovi situation, Detroit replaced his scoring elsewhere. [if a 'similar' drop-off is expected, Yzerman went from 58 goals to 24 goals under Bowman and never topped 40 again. Different situations, of course, but even 50-to-40 is going to be noticable.]

After Ovi last year, Ward and Brouwer were the only other Caps over 20 goals and both had career highs (with Ward posting an 18% shooting percentage). Can they repeat and improve? Trotz isn't an offensive coach and the numbers will probably be lower on both sides of the puck this year. I'd be more impressed if he can get someone to win faceoffs...

[toby91_ca 620]

I think it is a little too simplistic to look at Bowman getting Yzerman to focus on defense and that resulting in a drop in Yzerman's offensive production. My honest opinion is that I don't think his production was impacted too significantly from his attention to the defensive end. A lot of people might say that if you play great defense, it will give you more time with the puck to play offense.

I think Yzerman played in a unique era within the history of the game. A good part of his prime was during the highest scoring era in league history and his increased age came during the lowest scoring era in league history....which made his drop in production look more significant.

[number9 3,297]

I think it is a little too simplistic to look at Bowman getting Yzerman to focus on defense and that resulting in a drop in Yzerman's offensive production. My honest opinion is that I don't think his production was impacted too significantly from his attention to the defensive end. A lot of people might say that if you play great defense, it will give you more time with the puck to play offense.

I think Yzerman played in a unique era within the history of the game. A good part of his prime was during the highest scoring era in league history and his increased age came during the lowest scoring era in league history....which made his drop in production look more significant.

Yes

Yzerman's "suddenly found defensive game" happened to exactly coincide with the end of the late 80's/early90's scoring frenzy. Be that luck or not, this comparison is bad.

[softshoes 83]

He doesn't have to be great defensively, but do you think he could at least try to be average? He does the Controller Disconnected thing all over the ice, all the time.

Regarding Mogilny, the Devils used him on their checking line at the end of his career

While looking for this

I found this

Which is even more hysterical.