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sjr2012

Things you would like to see for 2015-16 Season

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So let's start with the UFAs:

Daniel Cleary (let go - 1.5M)
Erik Cole (let go - $4M)
Marek Zidlicky (let go - $3M)

Jonas Gustavsson (let go - 1.85M)

This puts us at a cap space of $10.5M.

Bring back all minor UFA/RFA's:

Mitch Callahan

Nick Jensen

Louis-Marc Aubry

Jared Coreau

Tom McCollum

Andy Miele

Kevin Porter

NHL RFAs:

Brendan Smith (2-years, $2.5M/year = +$1.25M)
Gustav Nyquist (1-year, $1.5M/year = +$0.5M)

Tomas Jurco (1-year, $1.5M/year = +$0.75M)

Joakim Andersson (let go, saving 0.75M)

Teemu Pukkinen (2-years, $1.25M/year = +$0.5M)

Landon Ferraro (2-years, $1.25M/year = +$0.75M)

This leaves the team with roughly $7.25M in cap space.

So we're looking at a loose forward lineup of:

Abdelkader - Datsyuk - Zetterberg
Miller - Glendening - Ferraro

How do you fulfill the other two lines? I think you have to give a long look to Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Mantha, and Helm. I'm moving Weiss to the first team that offers to absorb his contract.

Kronwall - ?

DeKeyser - Quincey

Ericsson - Smith

You have to consider Marchenko and Ouellet for a spot too. Maybe move Ericsson and his salary ($4.25M)?

Let's say both Weiss and Ericsson are moved (getting nothing in return but spare minor league parts and cap space). That gives the team $16.5M in space.

My two targets are Arizona/Chicago C Antoine Vermette and Washington D Mike Green. 2-years, $5.5M/year for Vermette and 5-years, $6M/year for Mike Green.

So we end up with:

Abdelkader - Datsyuk - Zetterberg
Nyquist - Vermette - Tatar
Sheahan - Helm - Pulkkinen
Miller - Glendening - Ferraro

Callahan - Jurco

Kronwall - Green

DeKeyser - Quincey

Smith - Marchenko

Kindl

Mrazek
?


... what's that, you say? Yep, with $5M in cap space, I'm offering Ottawa G Andrew Hammond a $3M deal to play 1-year here splitting 50-50 with Mrazek, giving him the chance to springboard a 40-start season into a long-term contract. That's a 400% increase in his current salary.

So where does Howard go? My goal is to offer him and a player like Jurco-Pulkkinen-Sproul for a true #1 PWF or DEF. What teams need a goalie? Buffalo, Florida (if Luongo retires), Dallas, Edmonton, Arizona, and San Jose, in my opinion. And with there only being one "true" #1 Goalie in FA (Niemi) I think there could be quite a bit of interest.

My most realistic top target: Joe Thornton. Of course, his contract is an average value of $6.75M and, with trading Howard ($5.25M), the Red Wings have $0.50M in room or so based on conservative projections here. I'm offering D Joe Hicketts / F Tomas Nosek / mid-round draft picks if necessary. Nothing more, not with Joe going head-to-head against their front office so much.

So my final roster...

Abdelkader - Datsyuk - Zetterberg
Nyquist - Thornton - Tatar
Sheahan - Vermette - Helm
Miler - Glendening - Ferraro

Jurco - Callahan

Kronwall - Green

DeKeyser - Quincey
Smith - Marchenko
Kindl

Mrazek
Hammond

And we keep Pulkkinen, Larkin, Mantha, Ouellet, Sproul, Athanasiou...


Thoughts?

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Joe Thornton is an excellent hockey player, but I wouldn't want him. Anything that slows us down, I'm against. If this series against Tampa taught me anything, its that we're dangerous when we are fast, and mediocre when we are slow.

Love ya Jumbo Joe, but no thanks.

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1. Babs needs to be back

2. Add some beef (Power Forward): Stewart/Kassian

3. Add ofensive right hand Def (Top 4) Green/Buff

4. Add some beef (Defensive Def) Gudas/McQuaid

5. Add Big 2nd Center : Thornton/Backes

6. Trade Howard

7. Trade Quincey

Kenny needs to build Stanley Cup contender and not just a playoff contender.

Nyquist for Buff

Howard, Quincey++ picks for Thornton/Backes

Tatar - Dats - Abdelkader

Mantha - Thornton/Backes - Pulks

Jurco - Helm - Stewart/Kassian

Miller - LG - Martin/Clutterback

Kronwall - Buff

Deke - Green

Ericsson - Gudas/McQuaid

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So let's start with the UFAs:

Daniel Cleary (let go - 1.5M)

Erik Cole (let go - $4M)

Marek Zidlicky (let go - $3M)

Jonas Gustavsson (let go - 1.85M)

This puts us at a cap space of $10.5M.

Bring back all minor UFA/RFA's:

Mitch Callahan

Nick Jensen

Louis-Marc Aubry

Jared Coreau

Tom McCollum

Andy Miele

Kevin Porter

NHL RFAs:

Brendan Smith (2-years, $2.5M/year = +$1.25M)

Gustav Nyquist (1-year, $1.5M/year = +$0.5M)

Tomas Jurco (1-year, $1.5M/year = +$0.75M)

Joakim Andersson (let go, saving 0.75M)

Teemu Pukkinen (2-years, $1.25M/year = +$0.5M)

Landon Ferraro (2-years, $1.25M/year = +$0.75M)

This leaves the team with roughly $7.25M in cap space.

So we're looking at a loose forward lineup of:

Abdelkader - Datsyuk - Zetterberg

Miller - Glendening - Ferraro

How do you fulfill the other two lines? I think you have to give a long look to Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, Pulkkinen, Mantha, and Helm. I'm moving Weiss to the first team that offers to absorb his contract.

Kronwall - ?

DeKeyser - Quincey

Ericsson - Smith

You have to consider Marchenko and Ouellet for a spot too. Maybe move Ericsson and his salary ($4.25M)?

Let's say both Weiss and Ericsson are moved (getting nothing in return but spare minor league parts and cap space). That gives the team $16.5M in space.

My two targets are Arizona/Chicago C Antoine Vermette and Washington D Mike Green. 2-years, $5.5M/year for Vermette and 5-years, $6M/year for Mike Green.

So we end up with:

Abdelkader - Datsyuk - Zetterberg

Nyquist - Vermette - Tatar

Sheahan - Helm - Pulkkinen

Miller - Glendening - Ferraro

Callahan - Jurco

Kronwall - Green

DeKeyser - Quincey

Smith - Marchenko

Kindl

Mrazek

?

... what's that, you say? Yep, with $5M in cap space, I'm offering Ottawa G Andrew Hammond a $3M deal to play 1-year here splitting 50-50 with Mrazek, giving him the chance to springboard a 40-start season into a long-term contract. That's a 400% increase in his current salary.

So where does Howard go? My goal is to offer him and a player like Jurco-Pulkkinen-Sproul for a true #1 PWF or DEF. What teams need a goalie? Buffalo, Florida (if Luongo retires), Dallas, Edmonton, Arizona, and San Jose, in my opinion. And with there only being one "true" #1 Goalie in FA (Niemi) I think there could be quite a bit of interest.

My most realistic top target: Joe Thornton. Of course, his contract is an average value of $6.75M and, with trading Howard ($5.25M), the Red Wings have $0.50M in room or so based on conservative projections here. I'm offering D Joe Hicketts / F Tomas Nosek / mid-round draft picks if necessary. Nothing more, not with Joe going head-to-head against their front office so much.

So my final roster...

Abdelkader - Datsyuk - Zetterberg

Nyquist - Thornton - Tatar

Sheahan - Vermette - Helm

Miler - Glendening - Ferraro

Jurco - Callahan

Kronwall - Green

DeKeyser - Quincey

Smith - Marchenko

Kindl

Mrazek

Hammond

And we keep Pulkkinen, Larkin, Mantha, Ouellet, Sproul, Athanasiou...

Thoughts?

Really like the though of going after Vermette. I loved watching him when he was on the Coyotes. Especially like that final roster!

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Didn't check the nhl cap numbers but this came to mind

Trade howard nyquist kindl for vlasic and wingels

Trade weiss smith jurco hicketts 2017 2nd rounder for Phaneuf -2mill and van riems dyk

Lineup

Van riemsdyk Datsyuk Tatar

Abdelkader Zetterberg wingels

Helm sheahan pulkkinen

Miller glendening Ferraro

Andersson/Callahan

Kronwall vlasic

Dekeyser Phaneuf

Ericsson Quincey

Marchenko

Mrazek

Enroth(ufa)

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I think the most critical needs are exactly what Holland tried to address at the trade deadline and in the last FA period but couldn't ultimately pull off:


1) A big, talented winger (ideally two)

2) A #2 defenseman


No Franzen and no Cole leaves the Wings playing exactly two top-nine guys with decent size - Abdelkader and Sheahan. The team struggles to generate offense because they're left on the periphery and they're just too easy to block out. Babcock compensated by pushing a grinding shutdown game at even strength and then taking advantage of power plays to create space for his smaller players, but it's just not good enough. They need the kind of bodies that can make room for 40, 13, 14, and 21 to work some magic. Clearly physical size isn't everything when it comes to success in hockey but I'm fairly certain that Detroit has the smallest top nine in the league. It has to be a priority this summer.


On the back end, it's time to end either (or both) of the Smith/Kindl experiments, admit that they're not going to get much better, and accept that they do nothing to address the yawning talent gap between Kronwall and everyone not named Kronwall. The best teams in the league play three (maybe four) very good defensemen and rotate the rest based on their specialty - the Hawks use Keith/Seabrook/Hjalmarsson, the Rags have McD/Staal/Girardi, the Ducks platoon four top guys, you see the trend. Meanwhile the teams going home early tended to lack that extra top-pair D-man and instead have a big drop in talent to their next best player - Ottawa has one guy, the Wings have one guy (DDK may be on his way to being a legit #2), the Weber-less Preds struggled badly with just Josi (Jones isn't quite there yet), and so on. I would venture that STL relies too heavily on Bouwmeester, he's overmatched in his role and it hurts them at times.


The Wings need another impact player taking 23+ minutes a night if they want to be a proper contender. Assuming they can get such an individual, room still has to be made for the kids to play a regular shift so they can see who among Sproul/Jensen/Marchenko/Ouellet is the real deal and who is the next Derek Meech. No Kindl and no Zidlicky creates space for Marchenko and Ouellet to fight for the #6 spot, ideally playing with Ericsson.


I don't see them trading Howard, especially not in any big NHL15-type trades. There's good reason to expect him to have a better season in 15-16 and the team's total expenditure at the position is only ~6mil between he and Mrazek, so it's not like they need the money. It makes more sense to platoon them for now and maybe deal Howard next year once Mrazek's contract is up. It should also go without saying that we have to hope Weiss is sent packing.

Edited by RationalHatred

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Really like the though of going after Vermette. I loved watching him when he was on the Coyotes. Especially like that final roster!

Thanks for the compliment.

The big thing with that lineup is how often we'd start with the puck after a faceoff. Vermette @ 53-60%, Thornton @ 53-60% Datsyuk @ 50-55%, Helm @ 50-55%, Zetterberg @ 50-52%, Glendening @ 50-52%,

Not one of those guys has had a season below 50% Faceoff wins the last three years.

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So ...

So my final roster...

Abdelkader - Datsyuk - Zetterberg

Nyquist - Thornton - Tatar

Sheahan - Vermette - Helm

Miler - Glendening - Ferraro

Jurco - Callahan

Kronwall - Green

DeKeyser - Quincey

Smith - Marchenko

Kindl

Mrazek

Hammond

And we keep Pulkkinen, Larkin, Mantha, Ouellet, Sproul, Athanasiou...

Thoughts?

Awful lot of work for a roster that isn't any better.

Didn't check the nhl cap numbers but this came to mind

Trade howard nyquist kindl for vlasic and wingels

Trade weiss smith jurco hicketts 2017 2nd rounder for Phaneuf -2mill and van riems dyk

...

I don't think you could make those trades even if you were the GM of both teams.

That Toronto package wouldn't get you Phaneuf +2mil and Dick Van Dyke

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I really love seeing all the "We need the kids to play. We need to be faster."

Oh yeah?

Who do you think has played the last two years? How'd that work out for us?

"Youth and enthusiasm will only take you so far." - Brett Hull (Hockeytown 3)

We need to teach these guys to play.

Why is Datsyuk so much better? Oh, I don't know. Scotty. Shanahan. Yzerman. Federov. They were at the tail end of their careers...

No one probably remembers this but in 2002 Datsyuk missed an assignment against Colorado. They scored. He never saw the ice the rest of the game.

Now I know a lot of you are just begging to see the Detroit Griffins, but newsflash, the NHL isn't the AHL.

How'd Pulk look when he came up? And is Mantha just lights out right now in the minors?

Give me a break. Think about what you're saying.

Someone else wrote on here, "No free agent is guaranteed." That logic applies to prospects, too. i.e. Everyone who was drafted before Datsyuk who is probably not as good.

We need to try and win a Cup every single year. That's the goal. If you're not about that, then move to Nashville. They make the playoffs a lot. Whoop-dy Freaking Doo.

Edited by wings7

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Awful lot of work for a roster that isn't any better.

I would suggest Zetterberg >>> Tatar/Nyquist.

Thornton > Zetterberg at the pivot.

Vermette >>> Sheahan/Helm at the pivot.

Green >> Ericsson.

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My idea doesn't seem so far fetched anymore.. not sure how the cap situation would work out but I think we'd be under..

Trade Weiss, Smith, mid prospect, 2nd rounder for phaneuf with 2 mill salary retained, sign green, sign ward (assuming he makes it to UFA)..

Tatar-Datsyuk-ward

Nyq-Z-Abby

Jurco-sheahan-helm

Star wars line

Kronner-green

Dekeyser-Phaneuf

Quincey-Ericsson

Mraz/Howard

I doubt that happens though. I'd be happy with just signing green but we'll see.

I do think Howard stays with the team at least until the trade deadline, if not longer..

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Love these threads:

Trade Nyquist, Mantha, Ericsson, Oulette, + 1st For Malkin.

Trade Weiss, Smith and Anthanasiou for Phanuef (-2,000,000).

Sign Mike Green.

TATAR - MALKIN - HELM

ZETTERBERG - DATSYUK - ABDELKADER

JURCO - SHEAHAN - PULKKINEN

MILLER - GLENDENNING - FERARRO

KRONWALL - PHANUEF

DEKEYSER - GREEN

QUINCEY - MARCHENKO

MRAZEK

HOWARD

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Am I the only person who doesn't want Mike green?

No, you're not alone.

On paper he could help, I've just never been a huge fan of the guy and he's injury prone. If it were a playoff rental that would be different, but signing as a UFA I'm gunshy.

Don't want him either. He will command a huge salary and with his injury history I don't think he'll be worth it.

Rather have Phaneuf who provides some offense but also some much needed physical presence to the back-end.

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Vermette = Helm

I love Helm, but do we really need another Helm?

Is he really? Wasn't he on the Coyotes' 1st line? Were they really that bad that they had Helm on their first line? (legit question - haven't seen a whole lot of Vermette)

I really love seeing all the "We need the kids to play. We need to be faster."

Oh yeah?

Who do you think has played the last two years? How'd that work out for us?

"Youth and enthusiasm will only take you so far." - Brett Hull (Hockeytown 3)

We need to teach these guys to play.

Why is Datsyuk so much better? Oh, I don't know. Scotty. Shanahan. Yzerman. Federov. They were at the tail end of their careers...

No one probably remembers this but in 2002 Datsyuk missed an assignment against Colorado. They scored. He never saw the ice the rest of the game.

Now I know a lot of you are just begging to see the Detroit Griffins, but newsflash, the NHL isn't the AHL.

How'd Pulk look when he came up? And is Mantha just lights out right now in the minors?

Give me a break. Think about what you're saying.

Someone else wrote on here, "No free agent is guaranteed." That logic applies to prospects, too. i.e. Everyone who was drafted before Datsyuk who is probably not as good.

We need to try and win a Cup every single year. That's the goal. If you're not about that, then move to Nashville. They make the playoffs a lot. Whoop-dy Freaking Doo.

Well, of the experienced NHLers that we've brought in, Cole, Sammuelsson, Coliacovo, Gustavesson, have been injured to the point to cancelling their positives.

Weiss, Legwand, White, played themselves out of the lineup (Legwand just down the lineup to little icetime).

We have a better record with bringing up our youth.

Sheahan, Glendening, Tatar, Nyquist, Mrazek have all grabbed spots and are long term pieces now. Jurco, Marchenko looked to be on their way there.

Pulkinnen hasn't looked spectacular, but there's definately potential there for him to be a consistent NHL scorer

When we bring up the youth, we're not strapped to a large contract that hurts us if they fail - We just send them back or release them a la Emmerton, Mursak, etc.

I think our recent history shows that youth has been the better way to go when it comes to mid-level talent. If we can bring in another Alfredsson, great, but let's let Ouelette play over bringing in Ian White

Edit: I now think "Injured to the point of cancelling out their positves" was a bit harsh for Monster and Cole. Monster was a good bridge signing and Cole was good for a while. But now we have good prospects at every position who are knocking on the door so I do think we should let them play unless a high end UFA/fgood trade is an option.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Guest Playmaker

I really love seeing all the "We need the kids to play. We need to be faster."

Oh yeah?

Who do you think has played the last two years? How'd that work out for us?

"Youth and enthusiasm will only take you so far." - Brett Hull (Hockeytown 3)

We need to teach these guys to play.

Why is Datsyuk so much better? Oh, I don't know. Scotty. Shanahan. Yzerman. Federov. They were at the tail end of their careers...

No one probably remembers this but in 2002 Datsyuk missed an assignment against Colorado. They scored. He never saw the ice the rest of the game.

Now I know a lot of you are just begging to see the Detroit Griffins, but newsflash, the NHL isn't the AHL.

How'd Pulk look when he came up? And is Mantha just lights out right now in the minors?

Give me a break. Think about what you're saying.

Someone else wrote on here, "No free agent is guaranteed." That logic applies to prospects, too. i.e. Everyone who was drafted before Datsyuk who is probably not as good.

We need to try and win a Cup every single year. That's the goal. If you're not about that, then move to Nashville. They make the playoffs a lot. Whoop-dy Freaking Doo.

Well, the Wings played Datsyuk and Zetterberg from 2003 through 2007, didn't they? How'd that work for us? Oh yeah, they got experience, learned from losing and eventually lead the team to a Stanley Cup. Yzerman and Fedorov were both criticized early in their careers for not "showing up". It takes some players longer than others, especially Europeans due to longer season, smaller ice surface and more physical play. I'm not ready to discard Nyquist, Tatar or Pulkkinen. The team obviously doesn't have the depth that they once did because of the salary cap and lower draft picks. The league is set up for parity and not dynasties.

Another thing that seems to be overlooked is that the Wings used to be able to get those late round finds in Europe because of Hakan Andersson. Unfortunately, his success also means he's not a secret anymore. He can't anonymously scout some of the diamonds in the rough like he used to.

It's also a must in the salary cap era to bring in young talent. It's not possible to pay a team full of veterans. I find it ironic that two or three years ago, Holland and Babcock were highly criticized for bringing playing the old, slow, tired veterans. Now they're playing the young players and are getting criticized for that, too.

With the "home team" having the advantage with UFAs and the restrictions in becoming a UFA, there just isn't much quality out there, but the prices are going higher.

There's no way to know if the prospects are more than that unless they are in the lineup. I'd rather lose in the first round with Tatar, Nyquist and Marchenko and at least have them getting the experience than a bunch of old, slow washed up veterans.

No team in any sport can compete for a championship every year in the modern era.

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