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Richdg

Fixing this mess....

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the $75M question is, IF Stamkos comes here does he get to wear #91?

No.

They'll retire Fedorov's jersey. They've hinted at it way too many times now. And the way Fedorov gave Detroit 120% of the credit for his career in his hall of fame reception - I think he's sucked up to the org enough to get it. Not to mention the one liner he threw in his interview when they asked him "So you still come to Detroit?" and his response was "I never left home - I just work far away (in russia)".

I'm sure Mike Illitch is soon to get over it like most of us did (I got over it last year).

---

But beyond all that the odds of Stamkos coming here......... yea..

Edited by kickazz

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...ok, ok, I know I said I wasn't going to re-hash the Yakupov thing, but....

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/nail-yakupov-s-agent-says-client-needs--fresh-start--190221267.html

definite conection with Larionov being his agent, PLUS everything Igor says in the article points directly to him having Datsyuk as his ideal center...at least those are the lines I read between! :lol:


“He needs to be guided by a skilled center so that’s very important to a young player to play with somebody who can deliver the puck and use his strengths,” Larionov said.

“I’m trying to help this young man to be in the right place and the right players for the last four years,” Larionov said. “He loves the city of Edmonton and loves the fans and obviously he would like to stay there but at some point he would like a fresh start and some fresh air to go on.”

Larionov was asked if the relationship between the Oilers and Yakupov could be salvaged.

“He loves to be there. He likes to train, he likes to be in the city. He likes to go in the different places, he likes to spend time with the kids in Edmonton with charity work in the city,” Larionov said. “He likes to be there. But I want him to be appreciated with what he’s been doing. That’s my point. For him, and he would like to stay there for many, many years. That was the goal for him – to stay. “

Yakupov to Detroit at draft? He needs fresh air and we need fresh breath! :lol:

...and for the record, I want #91 in the rafters. I was never mad at him for leaving, he has and always will be my favorite player.

Edited by LeftWinger

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:lol: The way the Leafs handled Detroit last game, maybe he will choose them over us!

I just have a hard time believing he would come here either. I like the rumors, and its nice hearing it from some hockey guys, but I do remember the rumor Suter had a verbal agreement pending the OK from his boss (wife) and we see how that turned out...

I will admit, I didn't even think of signing Stamkos until I heard Chris Johnson mention it.

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Well that would certainly help to step in the right direction...add Yandle on the back end and we're looking good. But must cut salary first...even if we land Stamkos, we cannot go forward with the same defense, just minus KFQ. We MUST cut some fat on the back end...

Fixing this mess starts with AA and Mantha both getting (and staying) top 6 minutes and line mates...add and subtract from there.

I'm telling you, AA-Dats-Mantha would be a lights out line...

Wouldn't want stamkos ..he'd cost us what ? 11 a year? What happens if Larkin gets 30-35 ? He's gonna see stamkos getting 11 and ask for 9-11 per , same with mantha and whoever else

We start gettin 11-12 million cap hits were gonna screw ourselves down the road , only guy I'd give 11 per would be a lidstrom franchise type dman but Unfortunetly don't see that happening anytime soon

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Wouldn't want stamkos ..he'd cost us what ? 11 a year? What happens if Larkin gets 30-35 ? He's gonna see stamkos getting 11 and ask for 9-11 per , same with mantha and whoever else

We start gettin 11-12 million cap hits were gonna screw ourselves down the road , only guy I'd give 11 per would be a lidstrom franchise type dman but Unfortunetly don't see that happening anytime soon

This is a flawed argument.

You're comparing Steven Stamkos, a guy who scored 51 goals and 95 points when he was 19 years old to Dylan Larkin who hasn't even hit 50 points as a 19 year old yet. And you're also talking about Anthony Mantha who only just now made the NHL roster after 2 years in AHL.

I mean 51 goals by Stamkos. Thats more than the total amount of points Larkin has acquired lol. Do you see how insane your comparison is?

Stamkos and Larkin are in entirely different leagues. Larkin and Mantha aren't going to ask for Stamkos' salary and the thought is already probably making Ken Holland chuckle.

Edited by kickazz

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So a daily would you question. Vesey isn't going to sign with the Preds. They of course are always looking for offense. Would you spin a Sheahan or tatar for Vesey, if he agrees to sign? We would be moving a young F that is a RFA either this year or next for another talented young F that is under control for several years. Thoughts?

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All this talk about Stamkos and Yakupov, which would be a lot of fun if we got one or even both of them, but the biggest problem will remain, our defense. It won't matter who we have playing forward, if our defense isn't good enough to get the puck out of our zone and the forwards have to keep coming back to help, it won't matter if it's Steven Stamkos or Dan Cleary, we won't generate offense.

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All this talk about Stamkos and Yakupov, which would be a lot of fun if we got one or even both of them, but the biggest problem will remain, our defense. It won't matter who we have playing forward, if our defense isn't good enough to get the puck out of our zone and the forwards have to keep coming back to help, it won't matter if it's Steven Stamkos or Dan Cleary, we won't generate offense.

ATM our D is still ranked better than our O is. One can also make the arguement that if the F's keep the puck in the O zone longer and score more that helps the D. Fact is this team needs a talent injection everywhere. No one player is going to turn that around. Not sure if 2 can do it. it is more like a 4-5 players needed thing.

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This is a flawed argument.

You're comparing Steven Stamkos, a guy who scored 51 goals and 95 points when he was 19 years old to Dylan Larkin who hasn't even hit 50 points as a 19 year old yet. And you're also talking about Anthony Mantha who only just now made the NHL roster after 2 years in AHL.

I mean 51 goals by Stamkos. Thats more than the total amount of points Larkin has acquired lol. Do you see how insane your comparison is?

Stamkos and Larkin are in entirely different leagues. Larkin and Mantha aren't going to ask for Stamkos' salary and the thought is already probably making Ken Holland chuckle.

I said if Larkin hits 30-35 every year he will demand for a higher salary since the guy on the team with the highest salary is making 11 ... You think he'd be satisfied with 6? Same with mantha or anyone else

And if stamkos was that great , why hasn't Tampa signed him by now? He comes here he's gonna be bitching that he's not playing center either ... and could be wrong but I believe it's been quite a while since he hit 50 goals ... So it's good for him he scored his 50 when he was a teenager ,at least he could say he hit 50 in his life

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ATM our D is still ranked better than our O is. One can also make the arguement that if the F's keep the puck in the O zone longer and score more that helps the D. Fact is this team needs a talent injection everywhere. No one player is going to turn that around. Not sure if 2 can do it. it is more like a 4-5 players needed thing.

I assume when you say ranked better, you're talking Goals Against vs Goals For. You could say that the forwards keeping the puck in the offensive zone would help the D, however, when the Wings were in their glory years, we had a strong defense that could keep the puck in the offensive zone and make good passes to get it out of our own end. Lidstrom, Rafalski, Schneider, Chelios, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Duchesne, Murphy, Coffey, etc. Our forwards never hesitated to pass the puck back to the blueline and have one of those d-men blast it back in. Our forwards never had to worry about whether those guys would get the puck out of their own end either. My point being, I think, our Goals Against is ranked higher than our Goals For because of the forwards coming back to help and it's negatively affecting our scoring numbers. It's difficult to generate offense in the other team's zone, when you can't trust your d-men to hold the blue line and you have to be back checking hard because you if you don't it could end up in your net.

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Rich, you can't seriously believe that our defense is stronger than our offense... Based on what? Goal differential? We have an above average offense right now, and I think we will have a very good offense in a year or two from now, just looking within the organization. We have a below average defense right now, and I don't see it improving a whole lot from anything we currently have within the organization. We desperately need help on the back end, we're fine up front. I think we should obviously make a pitch for Stamkos, but if the price gets too high (it will), I'm quite okay with Holland backing off and saving his money to upgrade the defense...

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Rich, you can't seriously believe that our defense is stronger than our offense... Based on what? Goal differential? We have an above average offense right now, and I think we will have a very good offense in a year or two from now, just looking within the organization. We have a below average defense right now, and I don't see it improving a whole lot from anything we currently have within the organization. We desperately need help on the back end, we're fine up front. I think we should obviously make a pitch for Stamkos, but if the price gets too high (it will), I'm quite okay with Holland backing off and saving his money to upgrade the defense...

I am saying that right now today we are better at keeping the pucks out of our goal 18th in the NHL than we are at putting pucks in the other teams goal 22nd. Those are the numbers. 22nd in goals scored is not above average in any way shape or form. Both stats suck BTW and I am not saying that we don't need to improve both units because we do.

When we started winning cups we won because we didn't give up many goals. Most our our D were good solid stay at home types. Some also helped in the O zone. fetisov was not a high end offensive Dman, nor was Rouse, Ramsey, ward, Pushor, Vladdy, etc... Yes we had Nicky, then later added Murphy and Chelios. But we won because the D was great. Nor some of that was the Left Wing Lock, some was the F's coming back, but most of it was the solid D played by the blueline corp.

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I disagree completely and I'm sure most would as well. You cannot just look at the goals for and goals against to judge how good the offense and defense are, it's a team stat, not a position stat. Offense starts from the back end, and we don't have enough puck moving defensemen, (and for some unexplainable reason our best puck moving defenseman is currently a healthy scratch...). We have a lot of very good two-way forwards, and defense from the forwards is stressed league wide in today's game. Bottom line our offense as a whole is above average today and in the future, while our defense as a whole is below average today and in the future, unless Larkin, Mantha and Athanasiou completely flop, and Ouellet and Sproul turn out to be Norris caliber defensemen... Neither is likely...

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There is always a debate about what D men are supposed to do. Last summer everyone here was convinced that Green was going to make our O better. Hasn't happened and he is poor defensively-which we knew. Our point totals from our Dmen suck, but is that really on them? Most Dmen get about 90% of their points in the form of asists. If the F's are scoring goals then no asists for the Dmen. Now we are 22nd in goals scored, but we are 16th in shots per game. So we are under performing in our shooting abilities. The flip side is we are 18th in goals allowed and we are 14th in shots allowed per game.

Now compare this years numbers to last years.

2014/15:

GF: 2.82 per game

GA: 2.57 per game

Shots per game: 29.6

Shots allowed per game: 28.3

2015/16:

GF: 2.54 per game

GA: 2.67 per game

Shots per game: 29.8

shots allowed per game: 29.9

We are scoring .30 goals per game less on the same number of shots while giving up .10 goals per game more 1 more shot per game. The raw numbers saw we have an offensive problem more so than a defensive one. Again we must improve BOTH ends.


I disagree completely and I'm sure most would as well. You cannot just look at the goals for and goals against to judge how good the offense and defense are, it's a team stat, not a position stat. Offense starts from the back end, and we don't have enough puck moving defensemen, (and for some unexplainable reason our best puck moving defenseman is currently a healthy scratch...). We have a lot of very good two-way forwards, and defense from the forwards is stressed league wide in today's game. Bottom line our offense as a whole is above average today and in the future, while our defense as a whole is below average today and in the future, unless Larkin, Mantha and Athanasiou completely flop, and Ouellet and Sproul turn out to be Norris caliber defensemen... Neither is likely...

Don't take this personal, but the 22nd ranked O is not above average. It is bottom 1/3 of the league, that is below average. Our shots per game is the same as last year and our goals scored are down. Shooting % is almost 100% on the forwards not the D. If our shots were down then yes one can make the argument that the D isn't getting the puck to the F etc...

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Agree to disagree, because I 100% believe our lack of offense starts from our lack of puck moving defensemen, and our speedy forwards that back check their a**es off make the defense look better than they have been. You also have to take into account that all three of Larkin, Mantha and Athanasiou are rookies, and will get MUCH better over the next few seasons. We have the talent up front, we don't at all on the back end. Name one defenseman in the pipeline that projects to be as good or better than any of the three forwards I mentioned... There's not one. Maybe Sproul or Russo get there but I think even they're a bit of a stretch...

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In the 4 seasons since Nick retired we have averaged between 29.5 and 30.1 shots per game. That has always been between 18th and 24th in the league each year. The goals scored per game has been between 2.51 and 2.84 depending on the year, and we have always been in the bottom third of the league. That is 4 years of being below average offensively. Yes you are correct that there is nothing in the pipeline for the D. Same is now largely true about the O. There is no datsyuk or Z on the horizon. We hope that Larkin, AA, and Mantha become great players-I think they will, but all they do is replace the 80 goals per year that Z and Datsyuk used to produce. we haven't improved yet.

Now Blashill is a more offensive focused coach than Babcock was. It hasn't helped. Our O is worse this year than last year while the D remains the same.

Any way we look at it we are a below average team. We need help everywhere, both ends of the ice. We have 15 million to spend this summer, and enough pieces to make 1 or 2 trades. Plus whatever we get out of the draft. Between now and Sep 2017 we need at least 2 high end F's and 2-3 high end Dmen. That is a lot of work and Holland needs to get busy.

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I said if Larkin hits 30-35 every year he will demand for a higher salary since the guy on the team with the highest salary is making 11 ... You think he'd be satisfied with 6? Same with mantha or anyone else

And if stamkos was that great , why hasn't Tampa signed him by now? He comes here he's gonna be bitching that he's not playing center either ... and could be wrong but I believe it's been quite a while since he hit 50 goals ... So it's good for him he scored his 50 when he was a teenager ,at least he could say he hit 50 in his life

First of all you're saying "If" and equating it to "is" therein lies the biggest flaw in your argument. Stamkos is a proven player and Larkin and Mantha (I have no idea why the hell Mantha is even in this conversation because even Larkin is in a different skill league than Mantha is at the moment) have a s*** ton to prove.

Second when you start a paragraph with "if Stamkos was that great" you're already hinting at not having any idea what kind of player Stamkos is. Stamkos at one point was regarded as the 2nd best / 3rd best player in the world in the early part of this decade. Do you know what that means? Larkin isn't even considered a top 20 player at this point.

And lol are you really trying to make the argument that because he hasn't signed an extension with Tampa yet that means he's not good? Wtf does that mean??? That's like me saying "Well if Mrazek was so good why haven't the Wings signed his next contract yet?"

Chill out. He's likely going to test free agency or work a deal once the playoff push is finished. Stamkos has all the power in the world right now when it comes to his contract. He gets to choose where he plays and likely will be one of the highest paid players.

Larkin is the future face of the team so he's going to get high pay. I don't know if Mantha will get as much as Larkin with the 5 NHL games he's played I don't think any hockey guru has the super power to predict that. And if anyone else wants to get paid $9 mill they can find another team that would pay them that much. I'm not sure who "anyone else" would be at this point anyway.

Edited by kickazz

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