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LeftWinger

Jacob Trouba watch

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1 hour ago, kliq said:

 

Do you really want to waste a protection on a guy with 1 year left? I would rather protect a guy like Spoul or XO.

 

It's a risk either way.  If we get one of the targets, XO or Sproul will probably be included in a deal. Fortunately we can only lose 1 player. But until a trade happens, its all guessing. You're right though, Vegas would probably ****** Sproul up before a 32 year old.

As of right now:

Protect:

Abby, Nyquist, Tatar, Mantha, AA, Nielsen.

(Now which forward do you use the last one on, Helm or Sheahan?)

DD, XO, Sproul

Mrazek

 

LOL, the curse word filter, filtered out the word used for a quick grab! Rhymes with catch.

Edited by LeftWinger

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Lets not over think what I said earlier and worry about the expansion draft to much. Nor do I want to highjack this thread. But they do tie together a bit. Lets pretend for a minute that my trades go through. We send Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith for Trouba, our 2017 1st for Fowler and some combination of younger players not named Larkin, MANtha, or Mrasek and get Shattenkirk. Use some combo of Oullett, Sproul, Sheahan and Marchenko to get him. 

We now finish the year and are getting ready for the ED. We have 2 options, one of which is 8 skaters and 1 G. We have to include all NMC contracts. We have 1-Neilson. All 1st and second year pros are naturally protected and don't have to be on our list/can't be drafted. Without reading all of the fine print, this should cover Larkin (second year pro) Svechnikov (1st year pro) and Lil Bert (second yea pro). Our 8 skaters can then be: Neilson, Mantha, AA, DD, Trouba, Fowler, Shattenkirk, and 1 other skater, plus Mrasek. LV can only draft 1 guy from our team. Most of what is left is older guys with large contracts. Guys like: Z, Helm, Glendening, Sheahan, Abby, Green, Kronwall, Ericsson, and Howard. Not one of those guys being gone is going to have a major impact on our team by being drafted. In fact LV would be doing us a favor in taking any one of those guys/contracts.

 

Again I will add, I am not an expansion draft guru. The fine print on 1st/2nd year players needs to be clarified. When does larkin start getting counted as a 3rd year guy? I am not 100% sure on that.

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Let's just pretend any of this is remotely possible (it's not), there isn't a GM in the league that would make that many massive changes to a team that is (on paper) pretty good, and has won 4 straight against some pretty good teams. Why make so many trades to make your team arguably worse? At best these are lateral moves giving up a ton of offense and depth to solidify the back end...

That Trouba trade that you keep bringing up has to be one of the worst trade proposals I've seen. We're giving up TWO 50 point wingers and a 15-20 point defenseman for a defenseman who as of yet, hasn't hit 30 points. This coming from one of the biggest proponents out there for Trouba. I don't think it's out of the question that he could become a 40-50 point defenseman, but he could also tap out at 30 points. That would be a massive over payment for that sort of production. Not to mention the fact that Winnipeg are already loaded up front. Why would they want two more wingers? They're also an internal cap team, and you think they're going to take on over $10M in salary, with two of the three looking for raises after this season?... There's just so much wrong with that trade from every perspective..

I'm not as high as some on Fowler. I would trade for him, but I wouldn't use our first on him. I'd consider Ouellet and a 2nd or 3rd, but that's about as high as I would go... I have zero interest in trading for Shattenkirk, who by all accounts wants to test free agency next offseason.

The 8 skater, 1 goalie option is there but I'd be shocked if any teams use this as you'd be protecting two less players. You can be guaranteed most (if not all) teams and definitely Holland will be going with the 7 forwards, 3 defensemen, 1 goalie option. So bringing in any more than one defenseman wouldn't be a smart move in my opinion. I honestly don't think we're going to make any moves, and I'm okay with standing pat for now. I'd do a Smith or Ouellet plus a pick or prospect for Trouba trade, but that'd be about it for me...

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I agree, there's no way to get all three players. I'm holding out for two, but in reality we may only get one....or none. 

I think it'll be Fowler.Winnipeg is just too unrealistic in their demands, but that's because they're in the driver's seat. If we can clear space somehow to fit Fowler in, I think he could be had for a pick. At most a young player and lower pick. 

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Let's just pretend any of this is remotely possible (it's not), there isn't a GM in the league that would make that many massive changes to a team that is (on paper) pretty good, and has won 4 straight against some pretty good teams. Why make so many trades to make your team arguably worse? At best these are lateral moves giving up a ton of offense and depth to solidify the back end...

That Trouba trade that you keep bringing up has to be one of the worst trade proposals I've seen. We're giving up TWO 50 point wingers and a 15-20 point defenseman for a defenseman who as of yet, hasn't hit 30 points. This coming from one of the biggest proponents out there for Trouba. I don't think it's out of the question that he could become a 40-50 point defenseman, but he could also tap out at 30 points. That would be a massive over payment for that sort of production. Not to mention the fact that Winnipeg are already loaded up front. Why would they want two more wingers? They're also an internal cap team, and you think they're going to take on over $10M in salary, with two of the three looking for raises after this season?... There's just so much wrong with that trade from every perspective..

I'm not as high as some on Fowler. I would trade for him, but I wouldn't use our first on him. I'd consider Ouellet and a 2nd or 3rd, but that's about as high as I would go... I have zero interest in trading for Shattenkirk, who by all accounts wants to test free agency next offseason.

The 8 skater, 1 goalie option is there but I'd be shocked if any teams use this as you'd be protecting two less players. You can be guaranteed most (if not all) teams and definitely Holland will be going with the 7 forwards, 3 defensemen, 1 goalie option. So bringing in any more than one defenseman wouldn't be a smart move in my opinion. I honestly don't think we're going to make any moves, and I'm okay with standing pat for now. I'd do a Smith or Ouellet plus a pick or prospect for Trouba trade, but that'd be about it for me...

To get you have to give. Smith is a UFA after this year and doesn't have much trade value because of it, but he does fit the bill of what the Jets want-LH Dman in mid 20's. Nyquist and Tatar are not stars nor are they guys that can carry their team to the PO's. They are secondary scorers and those guys are always available on the UFA market-IE easy to pick up. Neilson and Vanek come to mind.

As for the assesment on our team, it is the same as it has been for the last 5 years or so. We will finish somewhere between 6th and 12th in the EC just making or just missing the PO's. To be a better team we need better players. Trouba, Fowler, and Shattenkirk are all improvements over what we currently have on the BL. Shattenkirk is a proven 45 point guy, Fowler a proven 35 point guy, and Trouba has the POTENTIAL to be better than either of them. Add in DD and you are looking at one of the best top 4 BL groups in the entire league. All of which are 27 years old or younger-a group we should be able to keep together for the next 6+ years.

Yes the chances of this happening are less than 1%. But this is a fan forum and that is what we do. Play the what if game. There are other players out there that could also be available and we are just not hearing about them. These guys just happen to be in the news.

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So instead of arguing any of the multiple points I made about why this would be a horrible trade for both teams, you just add another reason why it wouldn't work? You say "to get you have to give", and follow that up by saying that Smith doesn't hold much value due to being a pending UFA, and Nyquist and Tatar are secondary scorers that can be found in any UFA class... Awesome pitch! Where does Cheveldayoff sign again?

Our team is not at all the same as it was 3 years ago, let alone "5 years or so". We have had a huge turnover in that time, and we're continually getting younger (and in my opinion better) each year. We may finish between "6th - 12th in the East, but that's not reason for a team on the upswing to blow it up...

Yes, this is a fan forum and everyone has an opinion (no matter how outlandish they may seem), but we should try to at least keep it somewhat realistic, shouldn't we? You said yourself, these are the (only) three big names on the market, and you think it's possible to get all three in a salary cap league?

By the way, 40+ points for Green isn't out of the question. DeKeyser is a solid number 2. Although Smith doesn't produce the points we all wish he would, he still possesses the puck a ton and is a solid top 4. Sproul could become the offensive force on the blueline we've been longing for. Ericsson in a reduced role on the 3rd pair where he should be, has looked great. Marchenko is a decent bottom pair guy as well. Ouellet has looked good. Point is, while our defense isn't the strongest, it's not nearly as bad as you make it seem. If we landed ONE top pair guy, we would have a very good defense corp. We don't need to add two or three in my opinion...

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23 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

So instead of arguing any of the multiple points I made about why this would be a horrible trade for both teams, you just add another reason why it wouldn't work? You say "to get you have to give", and follow that up by saying that Smith doesn't hold much value due to being a pending UFA, and Nyquist and Tatar are secondary scorers that can be found in any UFA class... Awesome pitch! Where does Cheveldayoff sign again?

Our team is not at all the same as it was 3 years ago, let alone "5 years or so". We have had a huge turnover in that time, and we're continually getting younger (and in my opinion better) each year. We may finish between "6th - 12th in the East, but that's not reason for a team on the upswing to blow it up...

Yes, this is a fan forum and everyone has an opinion (no matter how outlandish they may seem), but we should try to at least keep it somewhat realistic, shouldn't we? You said yourself, these are the (only) three big names on the market, and you think it's possible to get all three in a salary cap league?

By the way, 40+ points for Green isn't out of the question. DeKeyser is a solid number 2. Although Smith doesn't produce the points we all wish he would, he still possesses the puck a ton and is a solid top 4. Sproul could become the offensive force on the blueline we've been longing for. Ericsson in a reduced role on the 3rd pair where he should be, has looked great. Marchenko is a decent bottom pair guy as well. Ouellet has looked good. Point is, while our defense isn't the strongest, it's not nearly as bad as you make it seem. If we landed ONE top pair guy, we would have a very good defense corp. We don't need to add two or three in my opinion...

The Jets are ofensively challanged. 19th in the league in scoring. Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith will add 45 goals to their team. The Jets are also a small market team. Adding more O by adding guys that have reasonable contracts could very well be appealing to them. As for us we would more than replace the scoring we lose by bringing up MANtha, adding Trouba, healthy Jurco, and Svechnikov in a few months. We have a surplus of F's that we can move.

As for the other defenders on the team, all are over 30 and have big cap hits. All need to be replaced over the next 3 seasons. Green has 1 more year, Kornwall has 2, Eericsson has three. None of them can stay healthy. Smith is a 1st round bust and it is too early to know if Marchenko, Sproul, and Oullett ever become anything.

On that note. I would be perfectly fine standing pat and playing those 3 young dman every game with DD and 2 of the old vets and finding out what we have. But doing this means "tanking the season" to many fans.

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1 hour ago, Richdg said:

The Jets are ofensively challanged. 19th in the league in scoring. Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith will add 45 goals to their team. The Jets are also a small market team. Adding more O by adding guys that have reasonable contracts could very well be appealing to them. As for us we would more than replace the scoring we lose by bringing up MANtha, adding Trouba, healthy Jurco, and Svechnikov in a few months. We have a surplus of F's that we can move.

As for the other defenders on the team, all are over 30 and have big cap hits. All need to be replaced over the next 3 seasons. Green has 1 more year, Kornwall has 2, Eericsson has three. None of them can stay healthy. Smith is a 1st round bust and it is too early to know if Marchenko, Sproul, and Oullett ever become anything.

On that note. I would be perfectly fine standing pat and playing those 3 young dman every game with DD and 2 of the old vets and finding out what we have. But doing this means "tanking the season" to many fans.

Not saying this is a troll post, but your solution is to trade away two of our best goal scorers and replace those 50-60 goals(25-30 for each of Tatar and nyquist)  with a rookie and a guy whose never scored more than 8 goals in the nhl? 

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3 hours ago, Richdg said:

The Jets are ofensively challanged. 19th in the league in scoring. Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith will add 45 goals to their team. The Jets are also a small market team. Adding more O by adding guys that have reasonable contracts could very well be appealing to them. As for us we would more than replace the scoring we lose by bringing up MANtha, adding Trouba, healthy Jurco, and Svechnikov in a few months. We have a surplus of F's that we can move.

As for the other defenders on the team, all are over 30 and have big cap hits. All need to be replaced over the next 3 seasons. Green has 1 more year, Kornwall has 2, Eericsson has three. None of them can stay healthy. Smith is a 1st round bust and it is too early to know if Marchenko, Sproul, and Oullett ever become anything.

On that note. I would be perfectly fine standing pat and playing those 3 young dman every game with DD and 2 of the old vets and finding out what we have. But doing this means "tanking the season" to many fans.

Which reasonable contracts are you speaking of? I'll agree on Nyquist but both Tatar and Smith are on expiring contracts. Tatar will be looking for at least what Nyquist is making, and Smith could very well walk in the summer. Not very attractive to a internal cap team that has issues attracting free agents...

You don't replace two of (arguably) your top goal scorers with rookies and expect similar results... I'm very high on Svechnikov too but he isn't close to being NHL ready in my opinion.

Green doesn't "need to be replaced" as long as he's still producing and playing at a high level, which he currently is. I'd even consider re-signing him for another short stint at a slightly lower cap hit after next season if his offensive ability is still prevalent. I fully expect Kronwall to go on LTIR at some point, possibly this season, and possibly for the duration of his contract. Like I said previously, Ericsson is a very capable defender in a reduced role, slightly overpaid, but we'll have more than enough ELC's on the books over the next few years to even that out...

Smith, although not the stud we all hoped he'd become is still a very solid top 4 defenseman, and that's about what you can expect from a late first round pick. So no, he certainly isn't a "bust". I'll agree it's too early to tell what we have in Marchenko, Ouellet and Sproul, which is all the more reason to see how they turn out rather than massively overpaying for three defenseman...

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Truth be told...With the Wings recent play makes this whole idea of obtaining Trouba not a top priority...Not saying we couldn't use him, but right now - we're doing just fine without him considering how well Sproul's been playing. 

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I do still think we need a legit number one at some point, but I do agree that we're not under near as much pressure to go out and get one immediately with the way we're currently playing. Maybe the price tag for Trouba goes down over the next month (before the December 1st deadline), if Winnipeg continue to play sub par hockey and Cheveldayoff feels a bit of pressure to make a deal...

It's extremely foolish to think we need 2 or 3 though, and even more so to think it's even a possibility to trade for 3 top four defensmen...

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31 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I do still think we need a legit number one at some point, but I do agree that we're not under near as much pressure to go out and get one immediately with the way we're currently playing. Maybe the price tag for Trouba goes down over the next month (before the December 1st deadline), if Winnipeg continue to play sub par hockey and Cheveldayoff feels a bit of pressure to make a deal...

It's extremely foolish to think we need 2 or 3 though, and even more so to think it's even a possibility to trade for 3 top four defensmen...

Right this moment - the Wings do not appear desperate enough to do anything that might place them in a compromising position.

 

There's a fair chance the Jets may have to accept less if they choose to move Trouba.

Edited by F.Michael

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I do still think we need a legit number one at some point, but I do agree that we're not under near as much pressure to go out and get one immediately with the way we're currently playing. Maybe the price tag for Trouba goes down over the next month (before the December 1st deadline), if Winnipeg continue to play sub par hockey and Cheveldayoff feels a bit of pressure to make a deal...

It's extremely foolish to think we need 2 or 3 though, and even more so to think it's even a possibility to trade for 3 top four defensmen...

Even if. Due to the cap we'd have to let got one or even two of them for probably nothing or at least far less than what we paid. If Holland tried to sell the farm for that I'd be chiming in the calls for his head.

 

9 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

They haven't played as well as the record indicates. If it wasn't for goaltending bailing them out they ccould easily have one or two wins.

We've won exactly one game only due to our goaltending. And that was the game in New York. The reason for the rest was not only our goaltending. Wings just played good hockey overall.

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19 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

They haven't played as well as the record indicates. If it wasn't for goaltending bailing them out they ccould easily have one or two wins.

Not that I agree, but I'm assuming this speaks of the Wings.

Try it this way, regarding the Jets.

They have played better than their record indicates.  If it wasn't for goaltending they could easily have one or two more wins.

*coughJimmyHowardcough*

Edited by e_prime

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I'd say, if we continue to win 5 out of 7 games our "need" for Trouba most definitely decreases, thus making the return, from us at least, less. If WPG had an idea to trade with Detroit, their worst case scenario is us doing good and not desperate. 

Even with our current run, I can still see Holland inquiring about Trouba, but maybe Fowler turns into the better option. 

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16 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

They haven't played as well as the record indicates. If it wasn't for goaltending bailing them out they ccould easily have one or two wins.

lol, of course you would say this. You know that we rank #1 in the NHL in Goals For and 17th in goals against. But yep, it's all goaltending.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/statistics/team/_/stat/scoring/sort/goalsAgainst

Watch the games Dickie.

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16 hours ago, derblaueClaus said:

We've won exactly one game only due to our goaltending. And that was the game in New York. The reason for the rest was not only our goaltending. Wings just played good hockey overall.

This.

28 minutes ago, kliq said:

lol, of course you would say this. You know that we rank #1 in the NHL in Goals For and 17th in goals against. But yep, it's all goaltending.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/statistics/team/_/stat/scoring/sort/goalsAgainst

Watch the games Dickie.

I don't agree with Dickie at all here, but I don't think goals for and against really tell whether or not the goals were due to solid team play or stellar goaltending. The more appropriate stats in my opinion would be shots, high quality scoring chances, save percentages, corsi, fenwick, and PDO... None of those stats we've been particularly good in, however I wouldn't say they indicate we've been bailed out in every game either. There's no denying though that both Howard and Mrazek have been great early on.

We were awful against the Rangers, and Howard stole that game for us, but aside from that, I think we've looked good to really good...

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Quote

Elliotte Friedman of Sportsnet:

Jets GM Kevin Cheveldayoff is holding firm in his asking price. Several teams have tried to get creative, but didn’t get that far.

Quote
On the Winnipeg Jets and Jacob Trouba …

Chris Nichols: Darren Dreger on the Winnipeg Jets and Jacob Trouba: “I did not get sense in dealing w/ people I deal w/ in Winnipeg that they’re feeling the heat even a little bit on Trouba.”

Chris Nichols: Dreger on Trouba trade offers: “There have been some interesting offers”

 

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2 hours ago, joesuffP said:

Dreger tweeting exactly what cheveldayoff wants. Letting Trouba know he won't be playing anytime soon. Trouba should just sign a one year deal it's in his best interest

I do agree with this bold part. Winnipeg REALLY seems to be pushing the narrative that they don't care and will wait this out, but I am not so sure the narrative they are telling through the media, and the reality of the situation are the same.

Even the Winnipeg media is pushing this point almost too hard, I think as a city they are sick of players not wanting to play there, and this is them trying to create the perception that they are taking a stand.

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