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LeftWinger

Jacob Trouba watch

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16 hours ago, marcaractac said:

When you have to choose between a high-end dman and a high-end winger, you go with the dman. They are a hell of a lot more difficult to come by these days. Giving up Mantha would not be foolish. It would be a realistic asset to have to part ways with to acquire a potential #1 defenseman. 

You just said it ... Potential number 1 , If it was ekman Larsson  I'd reconsider , just think since we won't be cup contenders next few seasons we can wait for trouba to be a ufa in 4 years and come back home (I'm convinced he'd come to Detroit the second he gets the chance) and that way we keep both 

 

and it's not easy to add a high end winger these days either, mantha scored again tonight and I think given the right chance he'd really succeed ,wings should use him for his shot on the powerplay and not use his size to park him in front that's not his job, give those roles to abdelkader and sheahan, he was never used good

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With either one you're talking potential though.  It comes down to who you think is going to be more likely to hit their ceiling, and I think that's Trouba.  Mantha's biggest issue has been work ethic since before he was drafted, that's not easy to over come.  As long as they don't demand another top prospect or a first as well (unless it's lottery protected) and you can clear enough cap space to sign him, then you do the Mantha for Trouba deal without hesitation.  Of course, we all know Kenny won't.

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10 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

With either one you're talking potential though.  It comes down to who you think is going to be more likely to hit their ceiling, and I think that's Trouba.  Mantha's biggest issue has been work ethic since before he was drafted, that's not easy to over come.  As long as they don't demand another top prospect or a first as well (unless it's lottery protected) and you can clear enough cap space to sign him, then you do the Mantha for Trouba deal without hesitation.  Of course, we all know Kenny won't.

I dont believe that for a second. All reports said that Holland was willing to trade anybody except Larkin, I would put money on it that if the Jets offered Trouba for Mantha 1 for 1, Holland would do it in a second.

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8 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Nobody took offense, I certainly didn't. I too think Fowler would be the easier of the two to acquire, but like I said, I'm holding out for BOTH! :lol: 

 

Uh....Sproul never got sent down, he is playing tonight and XO is a healthy scratch. With Kronner being injured they kept 8 D-Men on the roster.  Even with Kronner on the mend, his cap is still there, so even when he comes back, they don't need to send either of XO or Sproul down.  My theory is they are rotating them here and there to basically audition for the job when it does come down to crunch time, or a trade.

 

Well - goes to show what little I know.

 

Was under the impression that Sproul was down in GR...From what little I had seen of the game (tried to catch a nap before going into work) - he looked like he fits in well with the big club...Props to you, and Andy Pred 48 for pointing him out...Thanks :thumbup:

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6 hours ago, kliq said:

I dont believe that for a second. All reports said that Holland was willing to trade anybody except Larkin, I would put money on it that if the Jets offered Trouba for Mantha 1 for 1, Holland would do it in a second.

read what I wrote.  I never suggested Mantha alone was enough

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3 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

read what I wrote.  I never suggested Mantha alone was enough

I'm not going through your posting history, I was commenting on your last post. I'm sure you were just being cynical for the sake of being cynical.

Edited by kliq

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There are 3 good Dmen that are rumored to be available: Trouba, Fowler, and Shattenkirk. Anyone of these 3 makes us a better team. getting 2 or 3 of these guys fixes our blueline for the next 6-8 years. Imagine if you will a top 4 of:

DD-Shattenkirk

Fowler-Trouba

Those 4 will eat up 50 mins of game time per night. You are also looking at a group that will put up 140+ points and 30+ goals. The question becomes how? What does each guy cost, what does the other team want, and do we have the cap space to do it?

So the rumors:

The Jets want a LHed Dman of the same age for Trouba + another player/pick.

The Ducks want 0 salary/cap coming back for Fowler.

The Blues are unclear.

On our side the 3 of them are going to cost around 15 million per year in salary/cap space. We don't have the room atm. We would have to move guys out.

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4 minutes ago, Richdg said:

The Blues are unclear.

 

On our side the 3 of them are going to cost around 15 million per year in salary/cap space. We don't have the room atm. We would have to move guys out.

Reports in the summer suggested that the Blues asked for Larkin.

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/06/26/report-blues-asked-wings-for-larkin-in-trade-for-shattenkirk/comment-page-1/

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35 minutes ago, Richdg said:

There are 3 good Dmen that are rumored to be available: Trouba, Fowler, and Shattenkirk. Anyone of these 3 makes us a better team. getting 2 or 3 of these guys fixes our blueline for the next 6-8 years. Imagine if you will a top 4 of:

DD-Shattenkirk

Fowler-Trouba

Those 4 will eat up 50 mins of game time per night. You are also looking at a group that will put up 140+ points and 30+ goals. The question becomes how? What does each guy cost, what does the other team want, and do we have the cap space to do it?

Imagine if we had a top line of:

Kreider - Larkin - Tarasenko

......

I love the optimism of some hoping to land 2 or 3 of these top defensemen available... It's a long shot that we get even one, zero chance we get 2 or 3...

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Going to have to move amounts that most likely reflects the likes of Howard, Smith, Tatar/Nyquist, and I think XO would be the young D going back to WPG.

Trade Howard for a 3rd to clear cap, trade that 3rd to Anaheim for Fowler, trade XO, Smith, Nyq/Tat and a pick for Trouba.

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2 hours ago, Richdg said:

There are 3 good Dmen that are rumored to be available: Trouba, Fowler, and Shattenkirk. Anyone of these 3 makes us a better team. getting 2 or 3 of these guys fixes our blueline for the next 6-8 years. Imagine if you will a top 4 of:

DD-Shattenkirk

Fowler-Trouba

I think I've kind of accepted that we're pretty much stuck with what we have.

Bottom line is we're up against the cap and we don't have many ultra-sexy assets that we can offer up in a trade proposal. And that's saying nothing of the specific circumstances of each of the three aforementioned trade targets and of their respective clubs.

Consider Shattenkirk:

  • He's on the last year of his contract
  • He won't necessarily be traded. (You'd probably have to blow Doug Armstrong out of the water with your offer)
  • What if we acquire him -- and give up a significant asset (or two, or three) to do so -- and he signs elsewhere in the summer? Are we close enough to winning a Cup that it'd be worth the risk? Personally, no, I don't think we are
  • Say we don't acquire him but do plan to target him if he hits the open market in the summer. Even if he 1) hits the open market and 2) doesn't have his heart set on a certain team (though, word on the street is he wants to be a Ranger), you're looking at a bidding war and, ultimately, a massive payday for him. Personally, I don't see us winning that bidding war

Consider Fowler:

  • Great skater, but not necessarily a great defenseman who's going to fill a critical hole on our blue line. IMHO, if we're moving Nyquist or Tatar for him, we're probably not improving the team by all that much, if at all. Might even be taking a bit of a step back

We've all talked about Trouba to death, so I won't even touch on him.

So, unfortunately, our D group seems to be more-or-less set, at least for the time being. ("The time being" probably = the rest of this season, maybe longer.)

Edited by Dabura

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4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Imagine if we had a top line of:

Kreider - Larkin - Tarasenko

......

I love the optimism of some hoping to land 2 or 3 of these top defensemen available... It's a long shot that we get even one, zero chance we get 2 or 3...

Yes it is a dream. But it also possible if Holland would act. No you can't do it all in one day. But let's pretend for a few minutes.

1. You send Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith to the Jets. That opens up 3 spots on the roster for Trouba, MANtha, and Jurco when he returns. That also opens up about 10 million in cap space. Resign trouba-that should cost 4.5-5 million for the next 7-8 years.

2. Now you have cap space to make a move for another player. Ok our 2017 1st round pick to the Ducks for Fowler. The Ducks get what they want and we get what we need. Fowler has a 4 million cap hit and 1 more year to go.

Both of those deals can be done any time. Going after Shattenkirk will take more time. We don't know how stuck on becoming a UFA he is. Maybe that is his ultimate goal. If so then getting him isn't worth it. Maybe getting a fair deal is all he is interested in. The Blues are cap tight and can't do much in terms of resigning him. We can if we try to. We have enough young and cheap pieces not named Larkin and MANtha to get the job done. If Shattenkirk is willing to resign that is.

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1 hour ago, Richdg said:

Yes it is a dream. But it also possible if Holland would act. No you can't do it all in one day. But let's pretend for a few minutes.

1. You send Tatar, Nyquist, and Smith to the Jets. That opens up 3 spots on the roster for Trouba, MANtha, and Jurco when he returns. That also opens up about 10 million in cap space. Resign trouba-that should cost 4.5-5 million for the next 7-8 years.

2. Now you have cap space to make a move for another player. Ok our 2017 1st round pick to the Ducks for Fowler. The Ducks get what they want and we get what we need. Fowler has a 4 million cap hit and 1 more year to go.

Both of those deals can be done any time. Going after Shattenkirk will take more time. We don't know how stuck on becoming a UFA he is. Maybe that is his ultimate goal. If so then getting him isn't worth it. Maybe getting a fair deal is all he is interested in. The Blues are cap tight and can't do much in terms of resigning him. We can if we try to. We have enough young and cheap pieces not named Larkin and MANtha to get the job done. If Shattenkirk is willing to resign that is.

The one problem with your plan is that we can only protect 3 D, so if you have DD, Fowler, Shattenkirk, and Trouba I can pretty much guarantee that the one you dont protect will be in Vegas next year.

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3 hours ago, kliq said:

The one problem with your plan is that we can only protect 3 D, so if you have DD, Fowler, Shattenkirk, and Trouba I can pretty much guarantee that the one you dont protect will be in Vegas next year.

I am not up on the expansion draft at all. But I thought I read you could do 4 D and 1 less F. If you can't that is fine as well. Get Trouba and Fowler then go after Shattenkirk in UFA, leaving Green, Kornwall and Ericsson unprotected and pray that one is taken.

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2 hours ago, Richdg said:

I am not up on the expansion draft at all. But I thought I read you could do 4 D and 1 less F. If you can't that is fine as well. Get Trouba and Fowler then go after Shattenkirk in UFA, leaving Green, Kornwall and Ericsson unprotected and pray that one is taken.

You can protect the following:

a) Seven forwards, three defensemen and one goaltender

b) Eight skaters (forwards/defensemen) and one goaltender

 

So you can technically protect 4 D, but you if you do, you go from being able to protect 10 skaters to 8 skaters.

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13 hours ago, kliq said:

The one problem with your plan is that we can only protect 3 D, so if you have DD, Fowler, Shattenkirk, and Trouba I can pretty much guarantee that the one you dont protect will be in Vegas next year.

Wait we're getting Shatty, Fowler, AND Trouba?

Speaking of being high on something... how about Sproul!?

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22 hours ago, kliq said:

I'm not going through your posting history, I was commenting on your last post. I'm sure you were just being cynical for the sake of being cynical.

I'm talking about that post.  I didn't say Mantha alone would be enough.  I said as long as it wasn't Mantha plus an unprotect first or a high end prospect, which means AA or Svechnikov at this point, you do it without thinking.

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3 hours ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

I think he was referring to Richdg post.

Also to the poster who said leave Green unprotected. That might be a huge mistake given his year thus far. 

I agree with Green, but, if we do acquire both Trouba and Fowler, you may want to protect them along with DD. But if we get either, it'll most likely just be one. In that case, for example, if Green continued his pace, I protect Fowler, DD and Green. With the way Howard is playing, if not traded at tge deadline, he may be our one player to be selected.

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3 hours ago, e_prime said:

Wait we're getting Shatty, Fowler, AND Trouba?

Speaking of being high on something... how about Sproul!?

I am so happy he is finally getting a chance to play. I think he is a guy we need to play in order to progress his development, because of all the kids on D I believe he has the highest ceiling.

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I agree with Green, but, if we do acquire both Trouba and Fowler, you may want to protect them along with DD. But if we get either, it'll most likely just be one. In that case, for example, if Green continued his pace, I protect Fowler, DD and Green. With the way Howard is playing, if not traded at tge deadline, he may be our one player to be selected.

Do you really want to waste a protection on a guy with 1 year left? I would rather protect a guy like Spoul or XO.

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

I'm talking about that post.  I didn't say Mantha alone would be enough.  I said as long as it wasn't Mantha plus an unprotect first or a high end prospect, which means AA or Svechnikov at this point, you do it without thinking.

ok, sure.

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On 22/10/2016 at 0:22 AM, nyqvististhefuture said:

You just said it ... Potential number 1 , If it was ekman Larsson  I'd reconsider , just think since we won't be cup contenders next few seasons we can wait for trouba to be a ufa in 4 years and come back home (I'm convinced he'd come to Detroit the second he gets the chance) and that way we keep both 

 

and it's not easy to add a high end winger these days either, mantha scored again tonight and I think given the right chance he'd really succeed ,wings should use him for his shot on the powerplay and not use his size to park him in front that's not his job, give those roles to abdelkader and sheahan, he was never used good

 

You don't get OEL without a package that starts off with Larkin under any circumstances. We also cannot wait FOUR YEARS to finally acquire a defenseman. Mantha is exactly the type of guy you give up to get a guy like Trouba. You gotta give to get. We'd have to clean out the farm to land OEL. 

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