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LeftWinger

Jacob Trouba watch

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6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think Mantha has been an enigma at all... I think he has taken a natural path of progression, it's just that some fans had way too high expectations on the kid coming out of junior. He broke his leg two years ago, which naturally caused him to have somewhat of a down year. Last year he showed steady improvement, and he's off to an amazing start to this season... Mantha will be a very good NHL player, it just depends on when and with what team... Hopefully soon and with the Red Wings. He's exactly the type of player this team needs in their lineup.

Frans and Vanek is what this team needed, now we need D

I am neutral on Mantha, to me yes his game needs to develop more, but that is why is an enigma to me 

Wings need a few defenseman, this is known... Do we overpay? A trade will happen, just when and who will be involved is the question. We have too many forwards - even after losing Frk and Pulks for nothing 

 

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7 hours ago, Rivalred said:

Frans and Vanek is what this team needed, now we need D

I am neutral on Mantha, to me yes his game needs to develop more, but that is why is an enigma to me 

Wings need a few defenseman, this is known... Do we overpay? A trade will happen, just when and who will be involved is the question. We have too many forwards - even after losing Frk and Pulks for nothing 

 

No they aren't one is signed for too long and the other guy isn't a center nor a defenseman. Sure, if Vanek keeps this up he might net a nice return come the trade dead line but there is also the risk of Kenny resigning him. 

Edited by frankgrimes

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Frans and Vanek is what this team needed, now we need D
I am neutral on Mantha, to me yes his game needs to develop more, but that is why is an enigma to me 
Wings need a few defenseman, this is known... Do we overpay? A trade will happen, just when and who will be involved is the question. We have too many forwards - even after losing Frk and Pulks for nothing 
 

No, they need top line talent. Nielsen is a second line center signed at least 3 years too ling. Vanes is a second line winger coming off a horrible deal and had a history of motivation issues. He's playing at a high level now, but let's give him a few more weeks before calling him a stud.

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18 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:


No, they need top line talent. Nielsen is a second line center signed at least 3 years too ling. Vanes is a second line winger coming off a horrible deal and had a history of motivation issues. He's playing at a high level now, but let's give him a few more weeks before calling him a stud.

I'm not too worried about Vanek for this season, the guy is playing for his next contract. Sign him to a multi-year deal, that's when I would start to worry.

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10 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think Mantha has been an enigma at all... I think he has taken a natural path of progression, it's just that some fans had way too high expectations on the kid coming out of junior. He broke his leg two years ago, which naturally caused him to have somewhat of a down year. Last year he showed steady improvement, and he's off to an amazing start to this season... Mantha will be a very good NHL player, it just depends on when and with what team... Hopefully soon and with the Red Wings. He's exactly the type of player this team needs in their lineup.

Agreed, but I'd probably still trade him for Trouba.

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Vanek will not be traded. It's almost a guarantee Kenny will re-sign him if he scores anywhere near 30 and makes the PP a legit force again.

Nielsen will be fine. There's no reason he cannot play out his contract and contribute every year. His health history is fantastic.

When Jurco comes back, I see AA being sent down. Business. Until Holland deals Jurco and one of Nyquist or Tatar there is no room here for AA or Mantha...unfortunately. Again, business. 

If Holland can trade Howard for a pick, that'll allow him to acquire Fowler for a pick or a low wage earner. Then he can turn another package for Trouba. I know I'm treading on fantasy hoping for both, but it can be done and until it doesn't happen, I'm still holding on. Of course getting both will mean saying goodbye to probably XO, and most likely Smith. Leaving Sproul as the #8 guy when Kronwall returns.

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9 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

 

Nielsen will be fine. There's no reason he cannot play out his contract and contribute every year. His health history is fantastic.

 

Even players who are relatively healthy slow down in their mid 30s, unless they're a freak like Jagr or Chelios

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3 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Even players who are relatively healthy slow down in their mid 30s, unless they're a freak like Jagr or Chelios

To be fair, he didn't say Nielsen wouldn't slow down, he said:

"Nielsen will be fine. There's no reason he cannot play out his contract and contribute every year. His health history is fantastic".

The implication here is that he will be a contributing member of this team until his contract is over. Not that he will stay at the exact level he is at today.

 

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On October 19, 2016 at 6:08 PM, marcaractac said:

If Mantha gets us Trouba, it must be done. Not like Blashill is gonna play him anyway. At least Trouba would make the roster by default. 

Wouldn't surprise me if trouba went on waivers soon enough the way were going ha

 

think giving up mantha would be foolish , he's finally stepping it up and people just want to part with him?i don't think were going to win the cup in a few years anyways so im willing to wait till trouba becomes a ufa if need be , I'm convinced he'd come to Detroit when he gets the chance and we also keep the big winger who has size and skating ability and can score in bunches 

 

Larkin was an enigma, just because mantha isn't here now means he's going to be a bust (not saying you said he would be , just saying ) just look what we're doing to athanasiou now , kid should be in an offensive role not  being turned into a 4th liner and penalty killer specialist 

 

if mantha keeps it up and gets 15 in 15 then it's time to stop messing around and get him a spot, as much as I like Tatar/nyquist there gonna have to go Sooner or  later to make room for the kids, sheahan might even be gone soon enough, although I like him on a fourth line role  with the likes of bertuzzi,turgeon etc.. Coming in 1-2 yrs 

anyways as you can see I'm a believer in mantha, although trouba would be nice I don't think we can land him with a good dman going to the jets anyways and we don't have any

34 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Vanek will not be traded. It's almost a guarantee Kenny will re-sign him if he scores anywhere near 30 and makes the PP a legit force again.

Nielsen will be fine. There's no reason he cannot play out his contract and contribute every year. His health history is fantastic.

When Jurco comes back, I see AA being sent down. Business. Until Holland deals Jurco and one of Nyquist or Tatar there is no room here for AA or Mantha...unfortunately. Again, business. 

If Holland can trade Howard for a pick, that'll allow him to acquire Fowler for a pick or a low wage earner. Then he can turn another package for Trouba. I know I'm treading on fantasy hoping for both, but it can be done and until it doesn't happen, I'm still holding on. Of course getting both will mean saying goodbye to probably XO, and most likely Smith. Leaving Sproul as the #8 guy when Kronwall returns.

He'd better not f***en score 30 goals then lol , no way vanek should even be considered for a second to return to Detroit after this season 

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4 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

think giving up mantha would be foolish , he's finally stepping it up and people just want to part with him?i don't think were going to win the cup in a few years anyways so im willing to wait till trouba becomes a ufa if need be , I'm convinced he'd come to Detroit when he gets the chance and we also keep the big winger who has size and skating ability and can score in bunches 

6

When you have to choose between a high-end dman and a high-end winger, you go with the dman. They are a hell of a lot more difficult to come by these days. Giving up Mantha would not be foolish. It would be a realistic asset to have to part ways with to acquire a potential #1 defenseman. 

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6 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Nielsen will be fine. There's no reason he cannot play out his contract and contribute every year. His health history is fantastic.

I think it's worth keeping in mind that he, having only played for the Islanders, really hasn't seen much playoff action at all. (A grand total of 24 postseason games.) So, in terms of wear and tear and mileage (not to mention the clean and efficient brand of hockey he plays), I'd say he's a "young 32."

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I know I'm definitely in the minority here, but if it came down to it and we had to give up one of Mantha or Athanasiou in a trade for a high end defenseman like Trouba, I'd trade Athanasiou. I know centers have more value than wingers, but I think Mantha has the higher ceiling. I see AA becoming a 2nd / 3rd line center (possibly even winger), and Mantha becoming a 1st / 2nd line winger. Of course, I'd much rather trade Nyquist or Tatar plus, but unfortunately that probably won't get it done...

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To be fair, he didn't say Nielsen wouldn't slow down, he said:
"Nielsen will be fine. There's no reason he cannot play out his contract and contribute every year. His health history is fantastic".
The implication here is that he will be a contributing member of this team until his contract is over. Not that he will stay at the exact level he is at today.
 

The problem is contribute doesn't mean come close to being worth that contract. When we're paying that much to a third line center for 30-35 points a year, that's going to be a problem.
I know I'm definitely in the minority here, but if it came down to it and we had to give up one of Mantha or Athanasiou in a trade for a high end defenseman like Trouba, I'd trade Athanasiou. I know centers have more value than wingers, but I think Mantha has the higher ceiling. I see AA becoming a 2nd / 3rd line center (possibly even winger), and Mantha becoming a 1st / 2nd line winger. Of course, I'd much rather trade Nyquist or Tatar plus, but unfortunately that probably won't get it done...


Nyquist or Dekeyser would have to go

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6 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:


The problem is contribute doesn't mean come close to being worth that contract. When we're paying that much to a third line center for 30-35 points a year, that's going to be a problem.

You may be right. His caphit is 5.25 million (we're not talking Toews money here), so it really comes down to what the market is in 3-5 years. Who knows what the cap will be at that point, who knows what the going rate is for a 3C will be at that point. If I had to guess I would probably agree, but to pretend like the worst case scenario is a given is just playing to an extreme.

Edited by kliq

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1 minute ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

I think the topic of the thread should be changed to the Cam Fowler watch.

Why? I think we have a better shot at getting Trouba then Fowler... Anaheim don't want any salary back in a trade, and we can't trade for a player unless equal salary is going the other way...

Sure, we could make two separate trades, but I still say the likelihood of trading for Trouba is much higher than Holland making TWO big trades...

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3 hours ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

I think the topic of the thread should be changed to the Cam Fowler watch.

Well until a trade is made or not, to us or someone else, we are ALL interested in watching what happens with Trouba.  If the MODS want to change the title to Trouba/Fowler watch, that'll be cool too! Since those seem to be the main two guys getting most the association with Detroit.

 

I'm still holding out for both, but I am not sure Holland has it in him to pull off TWO big deals like these! :lol:

I think as it gets closer to December 1, the price for BOTH guys will come down, because the Jets will want to move him and get something in return and the Ducks don't want to have Lindholm sit out the entire season.

Problem is, I think Holland will actually have to make THREE deals in order to acquire both.

1. Trade Jimmy for a pick to clear cap.(I've seen ARZ mentioned, do they need a goalie? What's up with Mike Smith?)

2. Trade 2017 3rd pick (form TOR) for Fowler

3. Trade XO, Smith, Nyquist(or Tatar) and a 2018 1st for Trouba. (No worries Smith fans, he is UFA in July and could be back! :thumbup: )

Its all so simple! :lol:

re-sign Trouba for 8 years $5.5M per.

Abdelkaer - Zetterberg - Athanasiou

Mantha - Nielsen - Larkin

Nyquist - Helm - Vanek

Miller - Glendening - Sheahan

Ott

Jurco(injured)

 

Dekeyser - Trouba

Fowler - Green

Ericsson - Marchenko

Sproul

Kronwall (injured)

 

Mrazek

Pasquele

 

...of course then deal with the roster at a later date when Kronwall and Jurco come back.

Edited by LeftWinger

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I know in we aren't getting both, hell, we'll be lucky to get even one. But until all the tire kicking is done, and they are traded elsewhere (if at all) I can dream and hold out hope!

 

BTW, with the roster moves above and re-signing Trouba, we are under the cap by $1.1M WITH Kronwall and Jurco's salary.

Come expansion:

Protect:

Abdelkader, Nyquist, AA, Mantha, Nielsen (NMC,) Helm, Sheahan

DD, Trouba, Fowler

Mrazek

 

...if you are offering Vanek a contract, leave him unprotected and wait until after the expansion draft! Or if you extend him before, protect him in place of Sheahan maybe.

Edited by LeftWinger

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Why? I think we have a better shot at getting Trouba then Fowler... Anaheim don't want any salary back in a trade, and we can't trade for a player unless equal salary is going the other way...

Sure, we could make two separate trades, but I still say the likelihood of trading for Trouba is much higher than Holland making TWO big trades...

But unless we're trading Dekeyser (which would kind of defeat the purpose), we don't have what the Jets want in return. Plus we may still need to clear some extra cap.

We wouldn't need to clear that much to fit Fowler. Dump Smith for a pick. Not exactly a big trade. Another small trade to dump Ouellet or Marchenko, or just waive someone. And that's only one of a handful of options.

We're not a great trade fit in either case, but I'd say it's a bit more likely that we can free up a little cap space than we can convince the Jets to change what they're asking for.

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I just suggested the change tongue in cheek as I think we are after Fowler now and Trouba when he's a UFA , no other reason. People sure do take things seriously on here eh? Anyway Sproul is going to save Kennys face by being a stud when he gets in. 

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12 minutes ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

I just suggested the change tongue in cheek as I think we are after Fowler now and Trouba when he's a UFA , no other reason. People sure do take things seriously on here eh? Anyway Sproul is going to save Kennys face by being a stud when he gets in. 

Let me start by saying that I don't follow GR at all.

 

Now that said - how exactly is a guy in GR gonna be a stud when there's already a few guys ahead of him Marchenko/Ouellet are already in Detroit?

 

If Sproul was a stud - wouldn't he be in Detroit too, or wouldn't he had taken the place of either of the 2 guys mentioned above?

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1 hour ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

I just suggested the change tongue in cheek as I think we are after Fowler now and Trouba when he's a UFA , no other reason. People sure do take things seriously on here eh? Anyway Sproul is going to save Kennys face by being a stud when he gets in. 

Nobody took offense, I certainly didn't. I too think Fowler would be the easier of the two to acquire, but like I said, I'm holding out for BOTH! :lol: 

 

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Let me start by saying that I don't follow GR at all.

 

Now that said - how exactly is a guy in GR gonna be a stud when there's already a few guys ahead of him Marchenko/Ouellet are already in Detroit?

 

If Sproul was a stud - wouldn't he be in Detroit too, or wouldn't he had taken the place of either of the 2 guys mentioned above?

Uh....Sproul never got sent down, he is playing tonight and XO is a healthy scratch. With Kronner being injured they kept 8 D-Men on the roster.  Even with Kronner on the mend, his cap is still there, so even when he comes back, they don't need to send either of XO or Sproul down.  My theory is they are rotating them here and there to basically audition for the job when it does come down to crunch time, or a trade.

 

Edited by LeftWinger

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