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MabusIncarnate

Conflict in the Crease

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7 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Yes he did play well, but a loss is a loss. It doesn't matter who is in net if the D sucks and there's no offence. It's not as if Mrazek is getting lit up every night. In the games he has allowed a few, alot of those were from defensive errors, or total lack of defence like the fourth goal in the WPG game. Zero defence on the play besides Errorsson who was  looking in the opposite direction. Howard is playing better numbers wise than Mrazek right now, but we all know that situation can easily be reversed. I'm happy he's playing well, but i know better than to trust in him to stay at those numbers, especially if he plays alot of games. I honestly don't get the trust some posters here have in him..what is it based off? How he played early in his career and four games this season?

It's not that we trust Howard. It's that there's people trusting Mrazek and labeling him out to be better than he has been.. we're merely pointing out that it's not the case... that in reality he isn't all that clutch at the moment, and Howard is just the steadier goalie at the moment. Nothing more, nothing less. 

But if people are going to talk crap about Howard, then others will definitely call Mrazek out if he's underperforming. It's just the way things go. Equal treatment bruh. 

It would all be nice if people gave Howard the recognition when he does well and not call him out for goals that aren't his fault and then hypocritically try to defend Mrazek when he lets a similar goal in. It's would all be nice if people treated the two goalies objectively. But they don't and so here we are. 

This will go on and on until Howard is traded lol. 

Edited by kickazz

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1 minute ago, kickazz said:

It's not that we trust Howard. It's that there's people trusting Mrazek and labeling him out to be better than he has been. And we're merely pointing out that it's not the case. That in reality neither of them are all that clutch at the moment, Howard is just the steadier goalie at the moment. Nothing more, nothing less. 

I'll be the first to say Mrazek hasn't been as good as he can be. His numbers show it. Maybe he's starting to get complacent and slacking a bit because he's been named starter and needs to sit a few and get a kick in the ass to see that he can lose the job as fast as he got it. If Howard can provide that kick then so be it, but it would suck if he relapsed into Jittery Jimmy mode again with a bigger workload. Gotta see how it plays out I guess.

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The crease is one place there isn't a conflict.  Right now Howard is on, Mrazek is waiting there for him to do his customary fumble into the crapper.  It's every other place on the roster,t he coaching staff, and front office all the way from the scouts to ownership we need to worry about.

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

It's not that we trust Howard. It's that there's people trusting Mrazek and labeling him out to be better than he has been.. we're merely pointing out that it's not the case... that in reality he isn't all that clutch at the moment, and Howard is just the steadier goalie at the moment. Nothing more, nothing less. 

But if people are going to talk crap about Howard, then others will definitely call Mrazek out if he's underperforming. It's just the way things go. Equal treatment bruh. 

It would all be nice if people gave Howard the recognition when he does well and not call him out for goals that aren't his fault and then hypocritically try to defend Mrazek when he lets a similar goal in. It's would all be nice if people treated the two goalies objectively. But they don't and so here we are. 

This will go on and on until Howard is traded lol. 

Agreed, there is definitely a double standard between the two. Some fans are so fueled on emotion that anything that happens when Howard is in net becomes his fault because they feel they have been burned by him in the past, while with Mrazek he is the one that makes them feel optimism. They dont want to believe that he can do anything bad so they find excuses for him.

I have always been a fan of Howard and felt he was given a raw deal in Detroit, and Mrazek I do believe has the makings of an elite goalie. But right now, Howard is playing like the better goaltender.

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How was Howard given a raw deal? I agree with everything else you said, but that part caught my eye. Joseph had a raw deal when Hasek was brought back and he was waived and sent to GR for a bit. I don't recall anything happening to Howard that he didn't bring on himself by not earning his contract. 

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1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

How was Howard given a raw deal? I agree with everything else you said, but that part caught my eye. Joseph had a raw deal when Hasek was brought back and he was waived and sent to GR for a bit. I don't recall anything happening to Howard that he didn't bring on himself by not earning his contract. 

No argument on the treatment of Cujo, he definitely got a raw deal. Much worse then Howard.

What did Howard "bring on to himself"? Howard is an average starting goaltender, who is paid like an average starting goaltender. According to sportstrac, he is the 17th highest paid goalie in the league. http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/contracts/goaltender/

Sure he lost him job to Mrazek, but that is because Mrazek is the future and Howard has had injury issues. Howard still has the skill set to be a decent starter in this league. When healthy, he has shown that.

If Howard was the highest paid goalie in the league, or even top 10 I would get the extreme negativity towards him. However, in reality he has played exactly to his level of skill....average. I am not sure why fans expected him to become Lundqvist or Quick, he is not that. He has played over the last 7 years here in Detroit just like he is paid, an average/slightly above average starting goalie.

When I say Howard gets a raw deal, what I mean is that fans expect more out of him then he is paid, or able to provide. It would be like getting upset with Nyquist for not get 90 points. He is simply not a 90 point player, nor is he paid like a 90 point player.

 

 

 

 

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He's really the 17th highest paid? Wow, I thought he was closer to the top than that.

I don't think anyone expected too much out of him. When he signed that long term contract he was playing like a $5.2 million goalie. Then he went out with injury in the middle of the 2014 season, and for the most part since then he's never been the same. He's had flashes of the old Howard here and there, but he hasn't played well or consistent enough to earn the kind of money he's paid. I thought you meant management screwed him or something. Lol

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1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

He's really the 17th highest paid? Wow, I thought he was closer to the top than that.

I don't think anyone expected too much out of him. When he signed that long term contract he was playing like a $5.2 million goalie. Then he went out with injury in the middle of the 2014 season, and for the most part since then he's never been the same. He's had flashes of the old Howard here and there, but he hasn't played well or consistent enough to earn the kind of money he's paid. I thought you meant management screwed him or something. Lol

Oh ok, I see how it could read that way. No I dont think management screwed him at all, they gave him every chance to succeed.

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3 hours ago, kliq said:

...

If Howard was the highest paid goalie in the league, or even top 10 I would get the extreme negativity towards him. However, in reality he has played exactly to his level of skill....average. I am not sure why fans expected him to become Lundqvist or Quick, he is not that. He has played over the last 7 years here in Detroit just like he is paid, an average/slightly above average starting goalie.

When I say Howard gets a raw deal, what I mean is that fans expect more out of him then he is paid, or able to provide. It would be like getting upset with Nyquist for not get 90 points. He is simply not a 90 point player, nor is he paid like a 90 point player.

Well, actually, since signing his big contract he has been markedly below average overall. Before his contract he was exceptional, arguably even top 5 in the league, so I can't really hate the contract. Just the price you have to pay when you have to buy at a high point. 

I still think he's a good goalie, and he probably hasn't been as bad as his stats suggest, but he really hasn't been playing up to his contract.

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40 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Well, actually, since signing his big contract he has been markedly below average overall. Before his contract he was exceptional, arguably even top 5 in the league, so I can't really hate the contract. Just the price you have to pay when you have to buy at a high point. 

I still think he's a good goalie, and he probably hasn't been as bad as his stats suggest, but he really hasn't been playing up to his contract.

I dont disagree with anything you are saying. My point was more so an evaluation of Howard over his entire career. i only bring up his caphit now because people make it sound like he is one of the highest paid goalies in the league.

Edited by kliq

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Well, actually, since signing his big contract he has been markedly below average overall. Before his contract he was exceptional, arguably even top 5 in the league, so I can't really hate the contract. Just the price you have to pay when you have to buy at a high point. 
I still think he's a good goalie, and he probably hasn't been as bad as his stats suggest, but he really hasn't been playing up to his contract.

How has he not played up to his contract that pays him like an average starter when that's exactly what he's played like? His issue isn't talent, in talent level alone he'd be top 10 easily. It's mental, and when he's off, he's one of the worst in the league. There really isn't much in between for him, either.

Goalies are like quarterbacks, if you don't have an elite one, yours isn't good enough.

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21 hours ago, kliq said:

Oh ok, I see how it could read that way. No I dont think management screwed him at all, they gave him every chance to succeed.

With the possible exception of saddling him with a less than stellar defense.

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1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:


How has he not played up to his contract that pays him like an average starter when that's exactly what he's played like? His issue isn't talent, in talent level alone he'd be top 10 easily. It's mental, and when he's off, he's one of the worst in the league. There really isn't much in between for him, either.

 

He's played below average for most of the past three seasons. That's where he hasn't earned his contract. Do you think a goalie who plays 14-14-5 over a season deserves $5.3 million for it? Come on...

He is talented, but his mental game hasn't been on. This season though, he seems to have put the mental demons aside. 3-2-0 with 7 goals against and like a 1.20 GAA. 1 shutout and even a shootout win tonight, which he's usually horrible at. Hopefully he can keep it up when called upon.

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Ride the hot goaltender. Howard is playing great, the best he's ever played as far as I'm concerned. He looks extremely poised, not overly aggressive and letting the play come to him. He's playing with a ton of confidence and it's showed in the countless breakaways he's turned away so far this season, as well as the shootout last night (two things he's been notoriously bad at in the past)...

Mrazek hasn't played bad, but he hasn't been on top of his game in my opinion. Like others have mentioned, he may have gotten a little too relaxed after being anointed the number one. Some push back from Howard is great for both of them, as well as the team right now. Mrazek is the goaltender of the future, and I have a ton of confidence that he'll be great, possibly even Vezina caliber, but he's not quite there yet.

I hope we go with Howard again next game, while Mrazek gets his mental game back. I'm sure when he gets the net again, he will have a great showing, I just hope we go another game (at least), with Howard playing lights out...

Regardless, this is one hell of a tandem we have going right now. Keep it up boys!

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1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

This right here.

If Howard had the confidence like Hasek had - chances are there wouldn't be any discussion about who's the legit #1 on this team.

I dunno, when that Mrazek kid is on his game, he's a top goalie as well, better than Howard i'd say. But yes, if Howard had the confidence and kept his game solid,  he'd still be the uncontested #1. There would have been no need to even put Mrazek in the mix, except as a backup, no matter how well he played. Howard was given many many chances to get his s*** in order, but didn't. There was no choice but to play Mrazek.

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9 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I dunno, when that Mrazek kid is on his game, he's a top goalie as well, better than Howard i'd say. But yes, if Howard had the confidence and kept his game solid,  he'd still be the uncontested #1. There would have been no need to even put Mrazek in the mix, except as a backup, no matter how well he played. Howard was given many many chances to get his s*** in order, but didn't. There was no choice but to play Mrazek.

Key word right there, "when" Mrazek is on his game... Mrazek's high is better than Howard's high, and their lows are equally as bad in my opinion. Mrazek's issue has been consistency, and once he figures out how to stay at his high for longer stretches he will be a really good goaltender. Howard is currently playing the better hockey right now of the two (arguably better than anyone in the entire league), so we should continue to go with the hot hand...

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He's played below average for most of the past three seasons. That's where he hasn't earned his contract. Do you think a goalie who plays 14-14-5 over a season deserves $5.3 million for it? Come on...
He is talented, but his mental game hasn't been on. This season though, he seems to have put the mental demons aside. 3-2-0 with 7 goals against and like a 1.20 GAA. 1 shutout and even a shootout win tonight, which he's usually horrible at. Hopefully he can keep it up when called upon.

A lot of that is as much in the team in front of him, but nobody is arguing that when he's bad, he's bad. But when he's on, he's All Star caliber. That makes him average

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2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

IMO, if there's any substance to any rumor of Howard being moved, we cannot take salary back. Move him for a pick. If we aren't looking to shed salary, then we may as well just keep him.

We can take salary back as long as the salary is expiring after this season, or the player we are getting is a player we need (ie. if we traded Howard for Fowler). Now that trade would obviously never happen, but I think you get the point.

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MyNHLTradeRumors is the best place to find legit talk about possible trades.  A lot of the other stuff out there is unsubstantiated rumor conjured out of thin air by writers and bloggers who are trying to dream trade scenarios into existence.  I've yet to see any talk of three way deal between Ducks, Leafs, and Wings.  The only three-way talk I've seen was Jets/Ducks/Wings.

Of course, if you've got links to further info., please share!

Edited by e_prime

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