What to do about Vanek

[kliq 3,763]

Lets assume for this poll, come the trade deadline the Wings are hovering around the playoffs.

I didnt include the option "re-sign now" as I thought that would be stupid considering we would then have to protect him.

Edited November 25, 2016 by kliq

[MabusIncarnate 5,359]

It really, really depends on the true direction of this team. If it were up to me, try to get a 3rd for him unless we can put him in a package for a defender. He's still a high risk player both with injuries and consistency, i'm not sure how much anyone would be willing to give up considering every team had the opportunity to sign him cheap this previous offseason and didn't. He's done well for us but if our youth is the future, let the veterans like Zetterberg stay and mentor and let Vanek redeem his career elsewhere. 

[e_prime 1,936]

Agreed Mabus.  It'll really depend on where we are sitting in the standings.  I don't imagine Holland will trade him if there's any chance that we're making the playoffs.  I voted trade him then try to re-sign.  This will all depend on what other moves Holland makes or plans to make.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I wouldn't be surprised if he got a 3 year deal by the all star break

[brett 1,029]

too early in the season to decide

if he helps bring a top defender do it

otherwise you see how he does for the season and re evaluate next season

 

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

If we're anywhere close to the playoffs he won't be dealt. Kenny will call it an own rental kind of s***. If we're out by a big margin, I think he might actually trade him.

[MDCard 48]

Keep him...he is one of the more skilled offensive guys we have.  

[krsmith17 7,191]

Trade him at the deadline. If he's open to signing another short(ish) / cheap(ish) contract in the offseason, by all means, but I think he will be looking to get paid if he continues at a similar pace for the rest of this season... If that's the case, look to fill his spot elsewhere.

I'd be open to trading Green as well if we're not in the mix around the deadline.

I'm not sure though if Holland would sell, even if we're 10+ points out at the deadline...

[Nightfall 871]

19 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not sure though if Holland would sell, even if we're 10+ points out at the deadline...

Its hard to tell what Holland will do.  We have never been 10+ points out at the deadline before so we really can't say if he would sell or not.

As for what I think, I say we trade him at the deadline.  Its safe to say that we are not a cup contending team.  If our goal is to just make the playoffs, then keep him.  If our goal is to win another cup, then that will take an overhaul.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Trade him for whatever we can get. This team needs assets for the future. 

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Trade him and hope for a nice asset or second rounder.
But with Holland you never know altough the wings need assets assets and assets

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Trading him and then re-signing him obviously brings us the most assets so that would be most ideal, but there would have to be some verbal agreement in that situation. I like him and I'd re-sign him for 3 or 4 years since he's only 32. It really depends on the fate of Howard, Kronwall, Sheahan, Smith, Tatar, though, to know if he'll fit under the cap (also how much it rises). If we get rid of Ott and Miller we do still have roster room with Mantha, AA, on the team.

There has been some who have been quick to put him in the pile of players who sign big contracts and then lose motivation. That doesn't really seem to be the case if you look at his stats. He played for some very bad Sabres teams after his contract there and still produced - his only real down year was last year and there could be other explanations for that (I've read he was put on low lines and not given PP time).

Edited November 26, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[LeftWinger 5,130]

Holland won't trade him, he'll sign him before the season ends and have to use a protection on him.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

9 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Holland won't trade him, he'll sign him before the season ends and have to use a protection on him.

Euro - check

Over 30years - check

Plays a soft game, not known for his work ethic - check

Result: Extension from Holland (as sad as it is)

 

Fact is, Green and Vanek should be used as assets if they continue to have a good season maybe a contender would be willing to overpay.

Edited November 26, 2016 by frankgrimes

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Euro - check
Over 30years - check
Plays a soft game, not known for his work ethic - check
Result: Extension from Holland (as sad as it is)
 
Fact is, Green and Vanek should be used as assets if they continue to have a good season maybe a contender would be willing to overpay.

They should be traded, but this is Holland.

[kliq 3,763]

7 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

Trade him and hope for a nice asset or second rounder.
But with Holland you never know altough the wings need assets assets and assets

What I find funny about comments like this, is I thought the narrative around here is that Holland hoards his assets and stock piles too many. Only on LGW.com can the Holland be accused of hoarding assets and not acquiring enough assets.

With that being said, if we are out of the playoff picture I say trade him for picks. I dont want players back, we dont need more Frk's and Pulkkinen's (no offense to these guys, but we need top line guys).

Also, can we please stop with the euro BS. I dont see why ethnicity should even be a factor in 2016. Its too bad we had that soft euro Holmstrom for all those years huh.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

18 minutes ago, kliq said:

What I find funny about comments like this, is I thought the narrative around here is that Holland hoards his assets and stock piles too many. Only on LGW.com can the Holland be accused of hoarding assets and not acquiring enough assets.

With that being said, if we are out of the playoff picture I say trade him for picks. I dont want players back, we dont need more Frk's and Pulkkinen's (no offense to these guys, but we need top line guys).

Also, can we please stop with the euro BS. I dont see why ethnicity should even be a factor in 2016. Its too bad we had that soft euro Holmstrom for all those years huh.

Which assets? If some of the players were as valuable as some people think some other teams would be willing to offer something the Wings need, without giving up the top guys like Larkin, Mantha. I personally think Green, Vanek (if they keep it up) should fetch a second rounder as a return.

You don't have to like it but I don't agree with the bold it's a fact and experience from watching them play and I'm a Euro myself but it's just true, so I don't see any reason why the truth shouldn't be mentioned. Guys that play big like Chara and Landeskog are the exception and sadly not the norm. Even if it were 2020 the truth is the truth.

Are you honestly comparing Holmer to Vanek? Holmer was one of the best net front presence ever and he basically gave his body for the team.

25 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

They should be traded, but this is Holland.

Exactly I honestly can see both of them getting a 3 to 4 year extension before they are traded because "the streak"

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by frankgrimes

[krsmith17 7,191]

Yeah, I don't get why some still feel the need to talk like that a** hat Don Cherry... "Soft Euro's"... By the way, you can call a lot of players in this league soft, European, Canadian, American, whatever, but the fact that you're calling out Vanek for being soft is what I find most puzzling... Vanek is probably one of the hardest guys on the puck on our team. He's certainly not "soft"...

I also agree that if we are trading a Vanek or Green at the deadline, that picks would be better than prospects. We should be trying to stock pile picks and possibly trade up in the draft. We need quality, not quantity. So Holland, F*** off trading our first for 2 seconds, or our second for 2 thirds...

[LeftWinger 5,130]

I personally want to re-sign Vanek, but only AFTER the expansion draft. My comment had nothing to do with European, I was knocking Holland. 

I've been Vanek at the Disco from July 1st.

[kliq 3,763]

4 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

Which assets? If some of the players were as valuable as some people think some other teams would be willing to offer something the Wings need, without giving up the top guys like Larkin, Mantha. I personally think Green, Vanek (if they keep it up) should fetch a second rounder as a return.

You don't have to like it but I don't agree with the bold it's a fact and experience from watching them play and I'm a Euro myself but it's just true, so I don't see any reason why the truth shouldn't be mentioned. Guys that play big like Chara and Landeskog are the exception and sadly not the norm. Even if it were 2020 the truth is the truth.

Are you honestly comparing Holmer to Vanek? Holmer was one of the best net front presence ever and he basically gave his body for the team.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Or just skim it? What I said was that I found it funny how the narrative around here is how Holland refuses to get rid of his assets and how he stockpiles young players (read the threads about us losing Frk, Pulk etc.) but then there is also a narrative of how we have no assets. My point was not taking either side, it was pointing out the general hypocrisy.

Secondly, I never said that Vanek and Holmstrom where similar players. I used Holmstrom as an example as to how thinking that all "Euro's" are soft while all North American players are strong is an outdated and simple minded way of thinking. Out of curiosity Frank, when you say you are European, which country were you born in? Or are simply talking about European heritage like pretty much every single white person in North America?

The fact that you call Vanek soft makes me wonder, do you even watch the games? If no, it makes so much of what you say make sense.

 

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

But Frank's a Euro guys... supposedly...so it's OK for him to use mass stereotypes and blanket statements.  Whatever that means...

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Did you actually read what I wrote? Or just skim it? What I said was that I found it funny how the narrative around here is how Holland refuses to get rid of his assets and how he stockpiles young players (read the threads about us losing Frk, Pulk etc.) but then there is also a narrative of how we have no assets. My point was not taking either side, it was pointing out the general hypocrisy.

Secondly, I never said that Vanek and Holmstrom where similar players. I used Holmstrom as an example as to how thinking that all "Euro's" are soft while all North American players are strong is an outdated and simple minded way of thinking. Out of curiosity Frank, when you say you are European, which country were you born in? Or are simply talking about European heritage like pretty much every single white person in North America?

The fact that you call Vanek soft makes me wonder, do you even watch the games? If no, it makes so much of what you say make sense.

 

I was born in Germany, then moved over to Switzerland so I could be closer to my chick. Germany is A country with a hockey league worse than the ECHL and a bunch of foreigners taking away spots from good more deserving local kids.And yet the league is miles away from anything worthwhile.

Also I don't think Pulkinnen, Frk and company will do much with their new teams when I'm talking about assets I mean guys you can throw in to get a better player or guys to move up in the draft.

I don't care if it's outdated and simple (I like being simple minded no reason to make things complicated), minded a lot of my experience watching games has taught me that and I won't change that opinion , period. Playing a heavy game means finishing your check, blog shots, box out other players and stick up for your team Mates, I've yet to see vanek doing something like this...

Like I said the sad reality is guys like Landeskog, Chara and Gudas are the exception not the norm. It's not mine or Don Cherry's fault that most euros aren't playing a heavy game. I admit I didn't watch a lot of games and the ones I did were so boring I fell asleep that's how great this team is to watch... so maybe Vanek did all that But if so name me the games so I can watch it.

[kliq 3,763]

1 minute ago, frankgrimes said:

I was born in Germany, then moved over to Switzerland so I could be closer to my chick. Germany is A country with a hockey league worse than the ECHL and a bunch of foreigners taking away spots from good more deserving local kids.And yet the league is miles away from anything worthwhile.


Also I don't think Pulkinnen, Frk and company will do much with their new teams when I'm talking about assets I mean guys you can throw in to get a better player or guys to move up in the draft.

I don't care if it's outdated and simple (I like being simple minded no reason to make things complicated), minded a lot of my experience watching games has taught me that and I won't change that opinion , period. Playing a heavy game means finishing your check, blog shots, box out other players and stick up for your team Mates, I've yet to see vanek doing something like this...

Like I said the sad reality is guys like Landeskog, Chara and Gudas are the exception not the norm. It's not mine or Don Cherry's fault that most euros aren't playing a heavy game.

Ok, while I still think your logic is incredibly flawed you are definitely European. 

I dont think Pulkinnen or Frk will do anything either, I referenced them as those are the threads where what I was talking about was referenced. Frk is actually back on the Wings in GR, we picked him back up off of waivers.  

Vanek doesnt play a game like Chara, thats for sure, but I wouldn't call him soft either.

[LeftWinger 5,130]

Vanek won't get you a #1 D.

[kliq 3,763]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Vanek won't get you a #1 D.

Agreed, I think AT BEST he may get us a second rounder.