2017 Draft

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Then we are even more boned on defense than we already are? No thanks! If he somehow moved up to #3, it's to go for Heiskanen or Makar, not Patrick or Vilardi. 

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I'd take Patrick or Vilardi over Heiskanen or Makar. I think we need centers as much as defense, thinking long term. We'd still have a massive hole on defense, but we could fill that via trade or next years draft. We're not going to be good for another couple years, so it's best player available for me. In saying that, I think it's going to cost a lot more than I'd be willing to pay to move up 6 spots in the draft...

[LeftWinger 5,130]

Quote

His offensive ceiling is not too high and he may never quarterback the powerplay but he has good hockey sense...

No. 

If we trade up, it's to get the #1 center marquee player we need.  Patrick, Vilardi, Hischier. It's not to get a defenseman who's ceiling is not too high...but I do understand wanting one of your favorites to be a Red Wing. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by LeftWinger

[marcaractac 3,963]

5 minutes ago, BadgerBob said:

You wouldn't want Hischier or Patrick? Then you potentially have your 1 and 2 centers for the future in one of them and Larkin and can keep AA on the wing. Trade Tatar or Nyquist a prospect and a pick for a Dman.

I want to see Holland fill the team's biggest need and draft a legit top pairing potential dman. It's been proven time and time again over the last calendar year that they cost a hell of a lot more than players like Goose or Tats in a trade. We're among the worst in the league on the blueline. The outlook down the middle currently isn't as bleak. 

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I'd take Patrick or Vilardi over Heiskanen or Makar. I think we need centers as much as defense, thinking long term. We'd still have a massive hole on defense, but we could fill that via trade or next years draft. We're not going to be good for another couple years, so it's best player available for me. In saying that, I think it's going to cost a lot more than I'd be willing to pay to move up 6 spots in the draft...

I just feel high-end dman are more difficult to come by than high-end centers (not that centers are easy to come by. In terms of trades, I think it's best to worry about defense first and trade for a center if need be. Who knows how Larkin, AA, Svech will be in 2-3 years. For all we know, we could end up being fine down the middle as is. The same can't be said on the blueline at all. If this was a draft with the likes of Auston Mathews or Connor McDavid I'd agree with you 100%. But that isn't the case this year at all. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

I want to see Holland fill the team's biggest need and draft a legit top pairing potential dman. It's been proven time and time again over the last calendar year that they cost a hell of a lot more than players like Goose or Tats in a trade. We're among the worst in the league on the blueline. The outlook down the middle currently isn't as bleak. 

Acquiring top pair defensemen probably will take more than a package starting with Nyquist or Tatar, but adding a piece like Patrick or Vilardi would allow us to trade an Athanasiou or Svechnikov. I think either of those (especially Svech) would be a great starting point to acquire a young, potential top pair defenseman.

[LeftWinger 5,130]

I'd draft Liljegren before Heiskanen, but neither at #3. #3 You need the C that will no doubt be on your team come October. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Acquiring top pair defensemen probably will take more than a package starting with Nyquist or Tatar, but adding a piece like Patrick or Vilardi would allow us to trade an Athanasiou or Svechnikov. I think either of those (especially Svech) would be a great starting point to acquire a young, potential top pair defenseman.

It works the other way around as well, however. Draft a high-end dman, and you can just package a guy like AA or Svech for a top center instead. Though I feel that taking a damn instead of a center in the draft gives Holland the option of seeing how things play out over the next couple seasons with Larkin, AA, and Svech.

Drafting a center and trading for a dman might make the team better a little sooner, but I guess it all comes down to the potential of guys like Makar or Heiskanen. Will they be better than guys like Trouba or Theodore? Maybe, maybe not. But I feel like taking that gamble is worth it. 

It's all merely conversation anyway. I still think the best plan is to just stick with the pick we have and take Liljegren. But if we did trade up, I'd like it to be for Makar or Heiskanen. In the end, Patrick does not come without risk either after his injury issues he has had. Basically, the draft needs to hurry the f*** up lol

3 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I'd draft Liljegren before Heiskanen, but neither at #3. #3 You need the C that will no doubt be on your team come October. 

 

And what if they are drafted at #1 and 2?

Edited June 22, 2017 by marcaractac

[Dabura 12,232]

1 hour ago, marcaractac said:

Nill will be s***tin' kittens if that's true

Everything's coming up Nillhouse.

[LeftWinger 5,130]

4 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

It works the other way around as well, however. Draft a high-end dman, and you can just package a guy like AA or Svech for a top center instead. Though I feel that taking a damn instead of a center in the draft gives Holland the option of seeing how things play out over the next couple seasons with Larkin, AA, and Svech.

Drafting a center and trading for a dman might make the team better a little sooner, but I guess it all comes down to the potential of guys like Makar or Heiskanen. Will they be better than guys like Trouba or Theodore? Maybe, maybe not. But I feel like taking that gamble is worth it. 

It's all merely conversation anyway. I still think the best plan is to just stick with the pick we have and take Liljegren. But if we did trade up, I'd like it to be for Makar or Heiskanen. In the end, Patrick does not come without risk either after his injury issues he has had. Basically, the draft needs to hurry the f*** up lol

And what if they are drafted at #1 and 2?

You have Patrick, Hischier and Vilardi. I understand the need for D as well, but these three are well documented to best in the draft. I'm perplexed as to why NJ would select Makar, but then again it is need. We need both, but I believe we need to start with the marquee center. You never know if we may be able to land Fowler or Trouba...again, I don't like the whole "doesn't have a high ceiling and may never quarterback thed pp." In a #1 D, those are two things we most definitely need.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I just feel like we have two equally huge holes at center and defense, so for our first round pick, I'd prefer to go best player available. And for me, it's Patrick or Vilardi over any defenseman in this years draft.

[marcaractac 3,963]

Just now, LeftWinger said:

You have Patrick, Hischier and Vilardi. I understand the need for D as well, but these three are well documented to best in the draft. I'm perplexed as to why NJ would select Makar, but then again it is need. We need both, but I believe we need to start with the marquee center. You never know if we may be able to land Fowler or Trouba...again, I don't like the whole "doesn't have a high ceiling and may never quarterback thed pp." In a #1 D, those are two things we most definitely need.

See our differences in how we'd like the draft to be handled comes down to two things.

1. I think we'll be fine down the middle once our young centers get to actually consistently play center. The likes of Patrick, Vilardi, Hischeir would very likely be no better than       Larkin come next season. All will get better with experience, including those we already have. 

2. I feel the ceiling of a couple of the dmen in the draft are higher than that of Trouba, Fowler. It's also scary looking at the depth chart of defense in the Wings system. Even           worse when looking at what's already on the main roster.

If we take a dman now, and it doesn't pan out in a couple years down the middle, I simply think it would be cheaper/easier to use young players/picks to trade for a top 6     center than a top pairing dman. 

Look at the Preds and Sens. They did what they did in the playoffs on the backs of high-end defense. 

[ShanahanMan 473]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I just feel like we have two equally huge holes at center and defense, so for our first round pick, I'd prefer to go best player available. And for me, it's Patrick or Vilardi over any defenseman in this years draft.

I say that and we simply dont have any pure goal scorers. Zero. The only guy we had was Vanek who could barely squeeze out a contract in FA. Still outperformed all our regulars. Really shows the lack of offensive depth on this team. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by ShanahanMan

[marcaractac 3,963]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I just feel like we have two equally huge holes at center and defense, so for our first round pick, I'd prefer to go best player available. And for me, it's Patrick or Vilardi over any defenseman in this years draft.

 

That's definitely a fair concern. But having Hank for another season or two, and the continued development of Larkin, AA, and Svech, I think we'll be alright. Definitely not as bleak as the blueline pipeline

2 minutes ago, ShanahanMan said:

I say that and we simply dont havepure goal scorers. Zero. The only guy we had was Vanek who could barely squeeze out a contract in FA. Still outperformed all our regulars. Really shows the lack of offensive depth on this team. 

I think a lot of these issues begin to go away with a mobile defense that can skate and move the puck. 

[ShanahanMan 473]

1 minute ago, marcaractac said:

That's definitely a fair concern. But having Hank for another season or two, and the continued development of Larkin, AA, and Svech, I think we'll be alright. Definitely not as bleak as the blueline pipeline

I think a lot of these issues begin to go away with a mobile defense that can skate and move the puck. 

To an extent, but we still need guys we can rely on to score goals. Right now, I think Tatar and Anthnasiou are pretty much our only solid goal scorers, and these guys are maybe good for 20-25 at most. Need to have a guy or two who we can count on for 30+.......natural goal scorers that we haven't had since Hossa. 

[BinMucker94 302]

1 minute ago, ShanahanMan said:

To an extent, but we still need guys we can rely on to score goals. Right now, I think Tatar and Anthnasiou are pretty much our only solid goal scorers, and these guys are maybe good for 20-25 at most. Need to have a guy or two who we can count on for 30+.......natural goal scorers that we haven't had since Hossa. 

I'm predicting that Mantha will have a big year this season. I don't know why but I just have a feeling he's going to show up and be a monster.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Just now, BinMucker94 said:

I'm predicting that Mantha will have a big year this season. I don't know why but I just have a feeling he's going to show up and be a monster.

The ability is there but work ethic and motivation is still questionable. Doesn't reflect well when you get benched multiple times in your rookie season for performance problems...

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 minutes ago, ShanahanMan said:

The ability is there but work ethic and motivation is still questionable. Doesn't reflect well when you get benched multiple times in your rookie season for performance problems...

To be fair Blash was always way too quick to go back to relying on Vets. 

[ShanahanMan 473]

2 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

To be fair Blash was always way too quick to go back to relying on Vets. 

I agree, and I think he really needs to go. It's almost like he's Babcock's retarded twin. 

[BadgerBob 297]

7 minutes ago, ShanahanMan said:

The ability is there but work ethic and motivation is still questionable. Doesn't reflect well when you get benched multiple times in your rookie season for performance problems...

I wish this team would quit requiring every single player to be a 2 way forward. For a decent amount of the season Mantha was the best player on the ice.

[krsmith17 7,191]

21 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

See our differences in how we'd like the draft to be handled comes down to two things.

1. I think we'll be fine down the middle once our young centers get to actually consistently play center. The likes of Patrick, Vilardi, Hischeir would very likely be no better than       Larkin come next season. All will get better with experience, including those we already have. 

2. I feel the ceiling of a couple of the dmen in the draft are higher than that of Trouba, Fowler. It's also scary looking at the depth chart of defense in the Wings system. Even           worse when looking at what's already on the main roster.

If we take a dman now, and it doesn't pan out in a couple years down the middle, I simply think it would be cheaper/easier to use young players/picks to trade for a top 6     center than a top pairing dman. 

Look at the Preds and Sens. They did what they did in the playoffs on the backs of high-end defense. 

And now look at the Pens. They did what they did in the playoffs (won the Stanley Cup) on the backs of high-end offense...

12 minutes ago, BinMucker94 said:

I'm predicting that Mantha will have a big year this season. I don't know why but I just have a feeling he's going to show up and be a monster.

I agree. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Mantha will lead the team in goals and points next season... Hopefully he plays on a line with Zetterberg...

[BinMucker94 302]

10 minutes ago, ShanahanMan said:

The ability is there but work ethic and motivation is still questionable. Doesn't reflect well when you get benched multiple times in your rookie season for performance problems...

I know but that's why I feel that he wants to prove himself. If he shows up in the best shape of his life and works every shift he could be unstoppable. He has the size, skill, and speed to go up against anyone in the NHL.

Also his shot is pretty good

Edited June 22, 2017 by BinMucker94

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Its all own personal preferences , but here's a option for you guys. If you are in the position of drafting 2 top players this draft, would you go for both Patrick and Hischier, or Makar and Heiskanen. No other combo's just the 2 options stated.

Now would you make the same choice for the Wings needs?

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

And now look at the Pens. They did what they did in the playoffs (won the Stanley Cup) on the backs of high-end offense...

I agree. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Mantha will lead the team in goals and points next season... Hopefully he plays on a line with Zetterberg...

With the likes of Crosby and Malkin, hence why I said if it was a draft with guys like Mathews or McDavid I'd absolutely choose the center over the d haha.

In the end, if we get Liljegren with the #9 and don't sign anyone to a contract longer than 1 season next month, I'll be quite pleased.

2 minutes ago, Andy Pred 48 said:

Its all own personal preferences , but here's a option for you guys. If you are in the position of drafting 2 top players this draft, would you go for both Patrick and Hischier, or Makar and Heiskanen. No other combo's just the 2 options stated.

Now would you make the same choice for the Wings needs?

I mean, being in a real situation of having the two top picks, you'd never have that constraint. I'd take the best center and the best dman. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Elite level centers are harder to find outside the top handful of picks than elite level D, because D is harder to predict as 18 year olds.  If they can trade up to get one of the top couple guys this year without giving up a king's ransom to do it, they should.  They might be able to get a Suter type in the second round, or with a pick in the 8-12 range next year.

Larkin may or may not ever be a first line player, it depends on if he can adjust his game to find ways to be effective other than just using his speed.

I don't have a lot of expectations for anyone, especially the younger players, next year as long as Blas#!t is running the team.  He's far too quick to yank a younger player's ice time and go back to the vets, even though the vets aren't any better and make the same mistakes the kids make.  For God's sake, he pulled AA and Mantha off the PP last year to use Riley "I didn't score for 79 games" Sheahan because they gave up some SH goals, and he thought they needed a better defensive player to help an anemic PP.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

He was named the best defenseman at the 2017 IIHF World Under-18 Championship in April, with 12 points (two goals, 10 assists) and a plus-8 rating in seven games to help Finland win the silver medal.

Heiskanen also had 10 points (five goals, five assists) in 37 games with HIFK. He played on the top pair at even strength and saw time on the power play and the penalty kill. He returned from missing four weeks in March because of a virus to average more than 20 minutes of ice time in eight playoff games.

HIFK coach Antti Tormanen said Heiskanen, 17, was his team's best defenseman this season.

top pairing , +20 toi  in the top Finnish mens league and still only 17, whoever picks this kid gets in my view the future star of this draft.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

So there is continued rumors about Devils wanting Makar, and possibly trading down from the #1 spot to do this.

To pile on to that, there's also rumors Vegas would like to move up in order to obtain Nolan Patrick.

Could be a big shuffle at the top before draft day hits, although I feel like they tempt us with these types of rumors every year and they never pan out.