Value of trade assets.

[Juklitz 85]

...what is the reason why to do not trade with B´hawks, they have nearly nothing but crap and low picks.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Coreau has only played 9 NHL games. We're not really considering him our backup already, are we?

I've liked what I seen from him, but it's definitely not the type of performance to start planning the future around. He has a 3.04 GAA so far. That's nothing to get too excited about. He looks like he might be a good backup in the future if we traded someone, but to say that he's already stolen Mrazek's spot is crazy to me.

I'm not super hype about Coreau or anything. But he's starting over Mrazek already though. Not sure why everyone is still so eager to defend Mraz on this.

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This.

I feel like ChristopherReevesLegs level of hate for Mrazek right now, is on par with a past user... number9's hate for Brendan Smith... Maybe it's because he's being hyped so much, the same way Smith was back then, but I really don't get why you would be so adamant on giving up on a player with such a high ceiling... Mrazek is still the goalie of the future, despite his struggles. He will find his game again and be a very good, possibly great starter for us for many years. People seem to forget that Petr is still just 24 (25 next month) years old. How old was Jimmy when he made the Wings full time? 24 or 25 wasn't he? Mrazek will be fine.

I still say we trade Howard if it all possible, and go into next season with Mrazek and Coreau. Very good tandem in my opinion.

I agree. The only way I'm okay with a late 2nd for Vanek, is if a decent prospect is coming along with it...

Comparing Smith to Mrazek? Sure I'll do that. Both turned out to be utter garbage despite the constant hyping from fans. They have that in common.

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm not super hype about Coreau or anything. But he's starting over Mrazek already though. Not sure why everyone is still so eager to defend Mraz on this.

Comparing Smith to Mrazek? Sure I'll do that. Both turned out to be utter garbage despite the constant hyping from fans. They have that in common.

Hahaha

[DickieDunn 2,571]

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

a player with such a high ceiling... Mrazek is still the goalie of the future, despite his struggles. He will find his game again and be a very good, possibly great starter for us for many years. People seem to forget that Petr is still just 24 (25 next month) years old. How old was Jimmy when he made the Wings full time? 24 or 25 wasn't he? Mrazek will be fine.

 

Is this based on the little over half season he played well or the almost full year he's played bad?

[kliq 3,755]

52 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Is this based on the little over half season he played well or the almost full year he's played bad?

My guess is that is it is likely based on his performance in the AHL when he helped the Griffins with a Calder Cup, his entire first year on the Wings in 2014/15 season, his first half of the 2015/16 season , his performance in the playoffs, and his obvious athleticism.

There is no doubt that Mrazek has sucked since his birthday last year, and I am not about to hand him the job like some others. But, based on what he has shown in his first 3-4 years in the Wings organization, many including myself still see the potential.

I guess its easier to just say he sucks though huh.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, kliq said:

My guess is that is it is likely based on his performance in the AHL when he helped the Griffins with a Calder Cup, his entire first year on the Wings in 2014/15 season, his first half of the 2015/16 season , his performance in the playoffs, and his obvious athleticism.

There is no doubt that Mrazek has sucked since his birthday last year, and I am not about to hand him the job like some others. But, based on what he has shown in his first 3-4 years in the Wings organization, many including myself still see the potential.

I guess its easier to just say he sucks though huh.

And hes got the attitude problem. Refusing to skate at practice. Prima Donna thinks he's Hasek.

Edited January 20, 2017 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Hahaha

Are you under some type of illusion that Smith or Mrazek are good NHLers?

[marcaractac 3,963]

Why does Mrazek get torn to shreds for going from Vezina numbers for a large chunk of last season to going through some struggles, yet Howard has been the definition of inconsistency. Howard had a great first half of the season and everyone quickly forgets how much of a train wreck he has been for large chunks of his career. Howard will never be the guy this team wins with. The jury is still out on Mrazek, but that is where the potential is. 

As for Howard's trade value? Despite how he has played this season, it is still pretty low. Anyone taking on that cap hit would be doing this team a huge favor. Sadly if the past is anything to go by,  Howard will be a sieve once he returns. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

24 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Are you under some type of illusion that Smith or Mrazek are good NHLers?

 

45 minutes ago, kliq said:

I guess its easier to just say he sucks though huh.

This.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Why does Mrazek get torn to shreds for going from Vezina numbers for a large chunk of last season to going through some struggles, yet Howard has been the definition of inconsistency. Howard had a great first half of the season and everyone quickly forgets how much of a train wreck he has been for large chunks of his career. Howard will never be the guy this team wins with. The jury is still out on Mrazek, but that is where the potential is. 

As for Howard's trade value? Despite how he has played this season, it is still pretty low. Anyone taking on that cap hit would be doing this team a huge favor. Sadly if the past is anything to go by,  Howard will be a sieve once he returns. 

Howard has 2 seasons where his GAA was at 2.80 and his SV% was just above .90. He has 6 seasons where his numbers are NHL starter quality, including this season, his best season.

Mrazek sits at a 3.15 GAA right now and under a .90 SV%. Howard has never been that consistently bad. Don't pretend. And Mrazek blew it in the playoffs leading into this season. He deserves to be ripped. He's not special.

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

This.

Reality is reality. I'm not trying to make anything easier. They stink. Unless you can show some crazy advanced stat to suggest otherwise? They're numbers and play have both been pretty garbage. Are you actually going to deny that?

[krsmith17 7,191]

Smith still hasn't put up the points I (or anyone else) expected him to, but he still drives possession, can skate and move the puck really well, and plays with an edge. He's a solid top 4 defenseman. Mrazek has proven that he can be a top goaltender in this league, and he will again in time. He's going through a rough stretch right now, but will soon climb out of it I'm sure.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

13 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Smith still hasn't put up the points I (or anyone else) expected him to, but he still drives possession, can skate and move the puck really well, and plays with an edge. He's a solid top 4 defenseman. Mrazek has proven that he can be a top goaltender in this league, and he will again in time. He's going through a rough stretch right now, but will soon climb out of it I'm sure.

Really? Smiths numbers dont reflect that. His advanced stats dont reflect that. And watching him he brings nothing of note night in and night out. Hes a place holder. 

Do you remember how you described Marchenko in a differet thread yesterday? Smith is exactly the same. Theyre both kyle quinceys. Theyre not disgustingly terrible but they also add nothing to the team. Placeholders. Warm bodies.

Smith will be 28 in less than a month. The potential is gone. Hes a below average Dman. And if your judgement on Mrazek is the same he'll probably be below average too.

[amato 3,210]

Obviously different sample sizes but their career stats are almost identical.. 

 

howard = 2.43 gaa, .915 save%

mraz = 2.47 gaa, .914 save% 

 

goalies are just inconsistent.. it's a tough job. lundquist and price are both among the best and have even struggled lately, for example. 

 

I have a feeling howard either gets "drafted" by vegas or is with us through the final two years of his contract. Either option is fine by me. 

[kickazz 5,459]

Brenden Smith would NEVER be a top 4 defenseman on a good team. He's an optimal 5th defenseman who should play sheltered minutes. 

The fact that Smith is considered a top 4 defenseman or is even in that convo really shows how we as fans are starting to get used to low quality since Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart left.

Edited January 20, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

There are so many levels of wrong in this post. Not even going to waste any more time. 

Has Coreau not been starting over Mrazek? Petr lost his job, it's not a secret. You can deny it, but it's like denying the holocaust, you'll just end up looking stupid. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Really? Smiths numbers dont reflect that. His advanced stats dont reflect that. And watching him he brings nothing of note night in and night out. Hes a place holder. 

Do you remember how you described Marchenko in a differet thread yesterday? Smith is exactly the same. Theyre both kyle quinceys. Theyre not disgustingly terrible but they also add nothing to the team. Placeholders. Warm bodies.

Smith will be 28 in less than a month. The potential is gone. Hes a below average Dman. And if your judgement on Mrazek is the same he'll probably be below average too.

His advanced stats have always shown that. This is the first year, his underlying numbers have been down, and they're still far from bad, despite the injuries. He absolutely does bring a dimension to the team, one that no other player currently does, with the exception of maybe Ouellet. He plays with an edge, can move the puck up ice and skates exceptionally well. In saying that, I absolutely would trade him if the right deal came along. But to compare him to Marchenko? Give me a f***ing break. They're "exactly the same"? Haha whatever.

Anyway, back to Mrazek... Trading him would be a mistake. You disagree? Cool.

21 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Brenden Smith would NEVER be a top 4 defenseman on a good team. He's an optimal 5th defenseman who should play sheltered minutes. 

The fact that Smith is considered a top 4 defenseman or is even in that convo really shows how we as fans are starting to get used to low quality since Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart left.

On a really good team, he may slide down to the number 5 slot, but on most teams, he is a top 4 in my opinion.

[amato 3,210]

7 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 Has Coreau not been starting over Mrazek? Petr lost his job, it's not a secret. You can deny it, but it's like denying the holocaust, you'll just end up looking stupid. 

 

Ridiculous examples aside, I think mrazek lost his "starting job" early in the season before Coreau was ever called up.. not necessarily to howard but to more of a "hot hand" approach. Coreau was winning; why not keep playing him?

 

Then he had a bad outing against Boston (not necessarily his fault) and mrazek came in and we ended up winning the game. I bet mrazek starts tonight (not sure if that's confirmed or not yet), and keeps starting if he keeps winning/playing well. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Has Coreau not been starting over Mrazek? Petr lost his job, it's not a secret. You can deny it, but it's like denying the holocaust, you'll just end up looking stupid. 

You are aware who is starting tonight right? Blash is just going with the hot hand, so if Mrazek continues to play well, like he did last game, he will continue to get starts... making him the starter once again...

[LeftWinger 4,963]

Comparing Mrazek to the Holocaust? Nice...

 

Btw, Howard to LTIR.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

His advanced stats have always shown that. This is the first year, his underlying numbers have been down, and they're still far from bad, despite the injuries. He absolutely does bring a dimension to the team, one that no other player currently does, with the exception of maybe Ouellet. He plays with an edge, can move the puck up ice and skates exceptionally well. In saying that, I absolutely would trade him if the right deal came along. But to compare him to Marchenko? Give me a f***ing break. They're "exactly the same"? Haha whatever.

Anyway, back to Mrazek... Trading him would be a mistake. You disagree? Cool.

On a really good team, he may slide down to the number 5 slot, but on most teams, he is a top 4 in my opinion.

Yeah I bet you think Filppula played with an edge too. Players who "move the puck well" score more than 15 pts a season. Brendan is not a puck mover at the NHL level by any means.

If you look at his usage he's a #6 D-man. Ouellet is already averaging more minutes a night than he is. And Marchenko needs about 7 more seconds of his time to pass him. Marchenko is actually probably slightly more valuable than he just because of the RH shot.

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You are aware who is starting tonight right? Blash is just going with the hot hand, so if Mrazek continues to play well, like he did last game, he will continue to get starts... making him the starter once again...

Good. If he's hot ride em. I wanna win. Howard is still clear #1 goalie on this team though, and most likely will continue to be when he returns.

3 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Comparing Mrazek to the Holocaust? Nice...

 

Btw, Howard to LTIR.

Wasn't really comparing those two specifically. Just used it as an example of something that is undeniable.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

Nothing is undeniable. You could be right, we don't know for sure which will be here next year, but Las Vegas odds we keep Mrazek. I'm 99.99999% positive if it comes down to choosing one, Howard is gone.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Sure, let's base an opinion on who is better based on Blashill's usage. Rock solid logic there... Ericsson is better than Ouellet and Glendening is better than Athanasiou, right? Anyway, I'm done with this back and forth with you 9, if you want to continue, by all means...

Edited January 20, 2017 by krsmith17

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, krsmith17 said:

Sure, let's base an opinion on who is better based on Blashill's usage. Rock solid logic there... Anyway, I'm done with this back and forth with you 9, if you want to continue, by all means...

Same usage under Babcock. You may not like Blashill, but he knows a bit more about NHL coaching than you or I do.

I get it. You've run out of space to run. Trying to defend Smith being a top 4 puck moving D-man is no easy task, I'll give you that.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Yeah, I don't get the level of hate for Mraz, Legs. Sure, he's struggled, but Utter garbage? I hope that's hyperbole. He's even been really good in his past 3 games, in my opinion. Also, much has been made of this storyline that Mrazek's been bad since his birthday last year, but don't think that's fully true. I think he was good in the playoffs last year and this year he's had pocket's of good games. So more like inconsistent since that birthday. I think he looks like he's turning it around.

Howard's been great this year, but there is a reason Mrazek won the #1 position back for the playoffs last year - Howard was pretty bad through the end of the season. This seems to be forgotten with his great play this year.

Anyway, I think the reason there's so much debate on goalies this year because there isn't a no risk, clear choice between the 2 because both now have inconsistent play in their pasts. Without the cap, it'd be nice to keep both, but with the idea of creating some space and maybe getting something in return, I think Howard has to be the one to go if only for the consideration of age.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

28 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Sure, let's base an opinion on who is better based on Blashill's usage. Rock solid logic there... Ericsson is better than Ouellet and Glendening is better than Athanasiou, right? Anyway, I'm done with this back and forth with you 9, if you want to continue, by all means...

Nice edit after the fact lol

2 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Yeah, I don't get the level of hate for Mraz, Legs. Sure, he's struggled, but Utter garbage? I hope that's hyperbole. He's even been really good in his past 3 games, in my opinion. Also, much has been made of this storyline that Mrazek's been bad since his birthday last year, but don't think that's fully true. I think he was good in the playoffs last year and this year he's had pocket's of good games. So more like inconsistent since that birthday. I think he looks like he's turning it around.

Howard's been great this year, but there is a reason Mrazek won the #1 position back for the playoffs last year - Howard was pretty bad through the end of the season. This seems to be forgotten with his great play this year.

Anyway, I think the reason there's so much debate on goalies this year because there isn't a no risk, clear choice between the 2 because both now have inconsistent play in their pasts. Without the cap, it'd be nice to keep both, but with the idea of creating some space and maybe getting something in return, I think Howard has to be the one to go if only for the consideration of age.

His numbers this year have been worse than Howard's ever have in his whole career. He's been about as effective as Coreau, which isn't saying much.

His playoff performance last year was NOT good.

The rest of your post I agree with. Mraz absolutely did steal Jimmys job before losing it again, and I hope he does it again without losing it this time.

There is no clear choice, you are correct. However, Howard has a good track record. He goes up and down like all goalies do, but he is a proven commodity in the NHL, unlike Mrazek. And has never dipped as low as Mrazek has. Howard isn't 37+ yet either. Regardless, I'm not going to pick my goalie based age and newness.