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kickazz

Ken Holland "We protected our best goaltender"

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Neither are anything special.  It's like arguing if a double cheeseburger from McDonald's is better than one from Burger King.  Both are greasy, made of "beef," fill you up, and that's the most you can say about them.

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Sproul's last year in junior and 1st in GR were the only years he has scored much more than Ouellet. Their last year in GR, they scored at the same rate. Ouellet's 5v5 scoring this year was slightly better than Sproul's. He also had more shots and shot attempts. The team was far better in both possession and goals for with Ouellet (in addition to being better defensively). And Ouellet wasn't nearly as sheltered as Sproul was.

The situation Sproul was in he probably should have had the best numbers on the team, but instead was the worst or near so in pretty much everything. And that after three years in GR where he scored at the same rate as Ericsson, and didn't show any improvement from his first year to his last. Calling him an "offensive defensemen" is like calling our 2022 1st-round pick "Keith". Might be true someday (probably not), but it for sure wasn't true this year.

Based on this year, Sproul couldn't even lift Ouellet's jock strap using a crane made out of Lidstrom's jock straps, which he couldn't even drive anyway.

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41 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Sproul's last year in junior and 1st in GR were the only years he has scored much more than Ouellet. Their last year in GR, they scored at the same rate. Ouellet's 5v5 scoring this year was slightly better than Sproul's. He also had more shots and shot attempts. The team was far better in both possession and goals for with Ouellet (in addition to being better defensively). And Ouellet wasn't nearly as sheltered as Sproul was.

The situation Sproul was in he probably should have had the best numbers on the team, but instead was the worst or near so in pretty much everything. And that after three years in GR where he scored at the same rate as Ericsson, and didn't show any improvement from his first year to his last. Calling him an "offensive defensemen" is like calling our 2022 1st-round pick "Keith". Might be true someday (probably not), but it for sure wasn't true this year.

Based on this year, Sproul couldn't even lift Ouellet's jock strap using a crane made out of Lidstrom's jock straps, which he couldn't even drive anyway.

:lol: dead.

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1 hour ago, Buppy said:

Sproul's last year in junior and 1st in GR were the only years he has scored much more than Ouellet. Their last year in GR, they scored at the same rate. Ouellet's 5v5 scoring this year was slightly better than Sproul's. He also had more shots and shot attempts. The team was far better in both possession and goals for with Ouellet (in addition to being better defensively). And Ouellet wasn't nearly as sheltered as Sproul was.

The situation Sproul was in he probably should have had the best numbers on the team, but instead was the worst or near so in pretty much everything. And that after three years in GR where he scored at the same rate as Ericsson, and didn't show any improvement from his first year to his last. Calling him an "offensive defensemen" is like calling our 2022 1st-round pick "Keith". Might be true someday (probably not), but it for sure wasn't true this year.

Based on this year, Sproul couldn't even lift Ouellet's jock strap using a crane made out of Lidstrom's jock straps, which he couldn't even drive anyway.

Man, I dont like Sproul anymore.

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1. Jensen

2. Ouellet

3. Sproul

In that order. Jensen surprised me in a good way. I expected a little more out XO this season. Sproul was a bit underwhelming. 

LeftWinger likes this

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14 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Abdelkader scored 50 in juniors 

Umm....what are you talking about?

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Couple of thoughts. 

Mrazek has ZERO VALUE around the league if VGK didn't select him and flip him for assets to a team needing a G. The reports of him being uncoachable after not starting the outdoor game v. Toronto ruined his value. He will get traded for picks and maybe a prospect. 

About bounce back seasons. The best thing that can happen is that 52 & 55 BOUNCE to LTIR next to 93. Give more kids a chance and use the recoverable cap space to wisely add a D and some R shooting forwards. 

Oh and it's ok not to sign TT. He is a tiny little fella who is invisible in the playoffs when the ice gets smaller. He has trade value. 

And lastly can we PLEASE say good riddens to Holland after this year? PLEASE young Ilitch save us! 

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11 hours ago, Buppy said:

Sproul's last year in junior and 1st in GR were the only years he has scored much more than Ouellet. Their last year in GR, they scored at the same rate. Ouellet's 5v5 scoring this year was slightly better than Sproul's. He also had more shots and shot attempts. The team was far better in both possession and goals for with Ouellet (in addition to being better defensively). And Ouellet wasn't nearly as sheltered as Sproul was.

The situation Sproul was in he probably should have had the best numbers on the team, but instead was the worst or near so in pretty much everything. And that after three years in GR where he scored at the same rate as Ericsson, and didn't show any improvement from his first year to his last. Calling him an "offensive defensemen" is like calling our 2022 1st-round pick "Keith". Might be true someday (probably not), but it for sure wasn't true this year.

Based on this year, Sproul couldn't even lift Ouellet's jock strap using a crane made out of Lidstrom's jock straps, which he couldn't even drive anyway.

This makes no sense. Sproul has been an offensive defenseman his entire career. Just because he hasn't put up the numbers yet in his 28 NHL games, doesn't negate that. I think Sproul has the potential to be a 30+ point defenseman. Maybe he gets there, maybe he doesn't. But he needs to be given the opportunity. He's not going to get that opportunity from the bench. Maybe Ouellet was slightly better than Sproul last year, but Sproul was also in and out of the lineup more than anyone. If given the opportunity, I think he would run with it. Hopefully the torn ACL doesn't effect his game too much, and he can get in some consistent games. Sproul's upside far outweighs Ouellet's in my opinion.

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4 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Personally I'm not really convinced that Howard is the 'better' of the two.

IMHO both will look bad when you take into consideration the 5 guys that play in front of them.

I think the biggest problem is that Mrazek doesnt have a happy go lucky Fleury mentality.  He wants to be the guy.  Hard to ne the guy when the GM wont let you.

Hockeymom1960 and chaps80 like this

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31 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Personally I'm not really convinced that Howard is the 'better' of the two.

IMHO both will look bad when you take into consideration the 5 guys that play in front of them.

Howard did last year with the same 5 in front of him as Mrazek. Howard is a great goaltender, just can't stay healthy.

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3 minutes ago, kliq said:

Howard did last year with the same 5 in front of him as Mrazek. Howard is a great goaltender, just can't stay healthy.

True, and when he returns - he's always not so good.

Seems like he's had 3, or 4 seasons in a row now where he's hurt, and returns later looking very rusty.

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Howard last year was better then Mrazek. Like the move or not, it worked out.

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Posted (edited)

On 7/3/2017 at 6:32 PM, kickazz said:

Ken Holland gives his reason as to why he didn't protect Mrazek. Basically saying Jimmy is the better and more consistent goaltender. Still thinks Mrazek has a chance to bounce back this coming year. Wants both Jimmy and Mrazek to succeed this year.

So basically, he doubled down on his goal tending tandem.  Excellent.  Maybe Mrazek just needed a swift kick in the pants.  Hopefully this plays out well.  If not, lets at least hope that Mrazek raises his trade value.

Said it before, will say it again, and going to say it again right now.  Goaltending is the least of our issues even with this little DRAMA playing out.

Edited by e_prime

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, e_prime said:

So basically, he doubled down on his goal tending tandem.  Excellent.  Maybe Mrazek just needed a swift kick in the pants.  Hopefully this plays out well.  If not, lets at least hope that Mrazek raises his trade value.

Said it before, will say it again, and going to say it again right now.  Goaltending is the least of our issues even with this little DRAMA playing out.

He also made a point that Jimmy is not "old". He's not 37 or 38, still has a lot of good years left in him. 

I have to agree, some of Osgoods best goaltending came when he was Mid 30s

Last year Jimmy played lights out in some games as a 32 year old

Edited by kickazz

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I think the biggest problem is that Mrazek doesnt have a happy go lucky Fleury mentality.  He wants to be the guy.  Hard to ne the guy when the GM wont let you.

Coach decides who plays. Mrazek sucked. Howard didn't

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

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I don't think we should count last year's injury to Howard against him. Pretty sure anyone gets injured if Jensen swan dives on their knee.

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13 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This makes no sense. Sproul has been an offensive defenseman his entire career. Just because he hasn't put up the numbers yet in his 28 NHL games, doesn't negate that. I think Sproul has the potential to be a 30+ point defenseman. Maybe he gets there, maybe he doesn't. But he needs to be given the opportunity. He's not going to get that opportunity from the bench. Maybe Ouellet was slightly better than Sproul last year, but Sproul was also in and out of the lineup more than anyone. If given the opportunity, I think he would run with it. Hopefully the torn ACL doesn't effect his game too much, and he can get in some consistent games. Sproul's upside far outweighs Ouellet's in my opinion.

He has been an offensive defenseman in the OHL and the AHL (sort of). That doesn't make him anything in the NHL. Stylistically he might be offensive, but if he's not actually scoring or adding any kind of offense (or actually hurting the offense when he's on the ice) then he isn't really an offensive defensemen. 

It's fine to be optimistic about Sproul's potential, just don't confuse that with what he actually does on the ice. Assuming the team hasn't already given up on him, he will get an opportunity. Won't likely be every game, nor should it be considering how bad he was. If he sucks again, he probably won't get many chances; nor should he. You should be good with that. 

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5 hours ago, Buppy said:

He has been an offensive defenseman in the OHL and the AHL (sort of). That doesn't make him anything in the NHL. Stylistically he might be offensive, but if he's not actually scoring or adding any kind of offense (or actually hurting the offense when he's on the ice) then he isn't really an offensive defensemen. 

It's fine to be optimistic about Sproul's potential, just don't confuse that with what he actually does on the ice. Assuming the team hasn't already given up on him, he will get an opportunity. Won't likely be every game, nor should it be considering how bad he was. If he sucks again, he probably won't get many chances; nor should he. You should be good with that. 

How well (or poorly) a player plays doesn't determine his style of play. There are offensive defensemen, defensive defensemen, and two-way defensemen. Sproul IS an offensive defensemen. Whether he ever hacks it as an NHLer or not doesn't change that. I'm okay with him not getting every game, the only thing I ask is he's given a fair shot. Don't bench him for one giveaway (he's going to make mistakes), and don't scratch him for weeks at a time for one off game (especially when other guys don't get the same treatment). If he's given a fair crack at it, and he doesn't pan out, whatever, let him walk at the end of the season.

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Posted (edited)

They don't bench anyone for "one giveaway". They tend to bench players over repeated gaffs. They gave him 27 games last year before his injury. He's already off to a good start in terms of opportunity.

I'm already starting to see it. This whole Daley signing is going to be a scapegoat for Sproul. Even though it literally has nothing to do with Sproul or the opportunity he's given overall.

Edited by kickazz

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

How well (or poorly) a player plays doesn't determine his style of play. There are offensive defensemen, defensive defensemen, and two-way defensemen. Sproul IS an offensive defensemen. 

That is such a poor way if debating. It makes no sense at all dude. That's like saying "I'm superman" but then not being able to lift even half my body weight. Wtf? Does that sill make me superman?? Just because I gave myself that title?? 

If, as Buppy pointed out, Sproul really isn't producing as an offensive defenseman, or playing like one. Then he's obviously failing to fullfil that title...

Edited by kickazz

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7 minutes ago, kickazz said:

That is such a poor way if debating. It makes no sense at all dude. That's like saying "I'm superman" but then not being able to lift even half my body weight. Wtf? Does that sill make me superman?? Just because I gave myself that title?? 

Awesome analogy dude... Problem is, Sproul has never given himself the title of offensive defenseman, let alone... superman... You know how he got labeled as an offensive defenseman? By playing like an offensive defenseman, you know, jumping into the rush, providing offense, and putting up points. He hasn't been able to do that quite as much as we'd like in his first 28 NHL games, therefore he is no longer an offensive defenseman... Got it...

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