Howard 2017 Starting Netminder

[kliq 3,763]

36 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Exactly. I don't "hate" Howard either. But who knows how much longer he has with all his past issues. Some younger goalie has to take the reigns soon by necessity. If not Mrazek or Coreau, then another will. Howard is one of those players I swear has things given to him as a veteran. Gets too much benefit of the doubt from management and coaches. Osgood couldn't even have the starting job back after Legace until he won the damn team a Cup, but sure Jimmy, take the net back based on 1/3 of the season you were actually available to the team.

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Can't exactly blame the guy because his own D-man essentially barreled into him with another player. I agree Jimmy has an injury history, but put yourself in Holland or Blashill's shoes.....they see Jimmy playing amazing, he gets hurt by his own teammate, Mrazek steps in and absolutely stinks up the place. You can see why they would give Jimmy the net back.

Now, with that being what it is, I am hoping both play great and we re-sign the younger Mrazek and then trade Howard in the final year of his contract. 

[Wingnut1989 165]

Howard never sold me on being a starter and getting paid what holland gave him. Mrazek has shown flashes of greatness and long slumps. Im not bias towards one or the other but I say play the hot hand, hopefully one of them is hot.

[jaymac17 10]

Howard never sold me on being a starter and getting paid what holland gave him. Mrazek has shown flashes of greatness and long slumps. Im not bias towards one or the other but I say play the hot hand, hopefully one of them is hot.

Howard signed his current deal after the 12-13 season. In the 4 years prior to the deal howard started an average of 55.75 games with a .918 save%, 2.32GAA and 4SO per year. During the 12-13 season (last before his current deal) the league ave for those categories was .912%, 2.54GAA, 1.3 SO. Howard ranked 9th with a 2.13GAA, 10th with .923%, and 1st with 5 SO. Howard was a top tier starter consistently for multiple years prior to his big money deal. There is no way to know that he would struggle so much with injury and inconsistency as he has in the years since. Yes, it is extremely frustrating but it's easy to sit here and manage the past. Unfortunately, we don't get to see the player's whole career arc before we sign these contracts. Howard was a solid starter for sure and part of the top 1/3 goalies in the league no question and by all accounts had our net situation solved for the next 8 years. His performance last year, while probably not exactly the new norm, is a closer representation of what he is and can be the the injury/inconsistency riddled prior couple years.

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[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, chaps80 said:

 

26? Add about 7 seasons worth to that total.


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7 seasons didnt matter much when Mrazek won the job... on how many games?

[Wingnut1989 165]

19 hours ago, jaymac17 said:

Howard signed his current deal after the 12-13 season. In the 4 years prior to the deal howard started an average of 55.75 games with a .918 save%, 2.32GAA and 4SO per year. During the 12-13 season (last before his current deal) the league ave for those categories was .912%, 2.54GAA, 1.3 SO. Howard ranked 9th with a 2.13GAA, 10th with .923%, and 1st with 5 SO. Howard was a top tier starter consistently for multiple years prior to his big money deal. There is no way to know that he would struggle so much with injury and inconsistency as he has in the years since. Yes, it is extremely frustrating but it's easy to sit here and manage the past. Unfortunately, we don't get to see the player's whole career arc before we sign these contracts. Howard was a solid starter for sure and part of the top 1/3 goalies in the league no question and by all accounts had our net situation solved for the next 8 years. His performance last year, while probably not exactly the new norm, is a closer representation of what he is and can be the the injury/inconsistency riddled prior couple years.

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ok you win

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

On 7/24/2017 at 3:10 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It's approaching 2 years now

That's not very long as young as he is.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 hours ago, Hockeymom1960 said:

That's not very long as young as he is.

What's your leash? 3 years? 4 years?

Mine's about 3-4 months

[ami 273]

Mrazek never stole anything from Howard, it was a generous gift and he, at the end, lost it anyway.
I hope we trade him during the season, if we cannot get anything of a real value in return, just get a couple cheerleader girls from Prague. For Tigers games, not for Red Wings'.

Edited August 1, 2017 by ami

[krsmith17 7,191]

It's going to be funny looking back on this thread (as well as a few other Howard vs Mrazek threads) a few years from now...

"Mrazek sucks"... "Trade him for whatever we can get"... 2019-20 - Mrazek wins the Vezina... 

I know, I know, wishful thinking. I'll admit it is, but not out of the realm of possibility either.

[joesuffP 1,746]

51 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

It's going to be funny looking back on this thread (as well as a few other Howard vs Mrazek threads) a few years from now...

"Mrazek sucks"... "Trade him for whatever we can get"... 2019-20 - Mrazek wins the Vezina... 

I know, I know, wishful thinking. I'll admit it is, but not out of the realm of possibility either.

It's hard to not be super optimistic in the off season. One surprise breakout season from a player could change the outlook of the teams future very quickly 

[AtlantaHotWings 1,126]

16 hours ago, joesuffP said:

It's hard to not be super optimistic in the off season. One surprise breakout season from a player could change the outlook of the teams future very quickly 

Especially if that breakout season is your goaltender.  Basically we become Montreal 2 if that were to happen 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

1 hour ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Especially if that breakout season is your goaltender.  Basically we become Montreal 2 if that were to happen 

Except the defense sucks and it's had to expect Zetterberg to be as good as he was last year at his age and the coach is still an idiot.

I look at it that the Wings don't have ANY starting goalies.  Howard can be good but he's injury prone and most of the time struggles after he gets hurt.  Mrazek appears to be a spoiled self entitled head case.  Coreau just isn't any good, I don't see what makes Holland have any confidence in him, unless it's just more inane "we like our team" drivel.  

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

The defense sucks. Hopefully Daley is good.

[joesuffP 1,746]

22 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

Especially if that breakout season is your goaltender.  Basically we become Montreal 2 if that were to happen 

Hard to imagine Mrazek doesn't improve at all from last season so I think goaltending will be a lot better. Defense I'm not expecting anybody to really take a huge step forward. But guys like Mantha if he is given good minutes all season long could score 30 goals. He has elite potential

[Shaman 713]

On 7/24/2017 at 7:45 PM, jaymac17 said:

Howard signed his current deal after the 12-13 season. In the 4 years prior to the deal howard started an average of 55.75 games with a .918 save%, 2.32GAA and 4SO per year. During the 12-13 season (last before his current deal) the league ave for those categories was .912%, 2.54GAA, 1.3 SO. Howard ranked 9th with a 2.13GAA, 10th with .923%, and 1st with 5 SO. Howard was a top tier starter consistently for multiple years prior to his big money deal. There is no way to know that he would struggle so much with injury and inconsistency as he has in the years since. Yes, it is extremely frustrating but it's easy to sit here and manage the past. Unfortunately, we don't get to see the player's whole career arc before we sign these contracts. Howard was a solid starter for sure and part of the top 1/3 goalies in the league no question and by all accounts had our net situation solved for the next 8 years. His performance last year, while probably not exactly the new norm, is a closer representation of what he is and can be the the injury/inconsistency riddled prior couple years.

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The problem is that Howard's inconsistency is a well know fact about him, look at articles before 2013 and after 2015 and they will all talk about it. People just forgot that was a thing during the two season he played at a high level. But in college, the AHL and when he first started playing NHL games his consistency was always an issue. During his 2.5 good seasons, he was pretty good, but he also benefited from the team he was on (Team defense, not necessarily the D-core itself) run by Babcock who preached team defense. I would also point out how much game plans differed between Mrazek stars and Howard starts last season. Wonder why GPG were so different between the two? It had a lot to do with the team collapsing further into the D-zone in Howard starts vs Mrazek starts. What happens when you start your breakout deeper in your own zone? Well the transition takes longer, the other team can adjust, and the breakout/transistion can be more easily stifled. And what does a less effective transition lead to? Lower offense. 

 

In the end, Howard was, is and always will be a good goalie who was also a head case and now is an injury proned over the hiller. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 8/4/2017 at 1:31 AM, Shaman said:

In the end, Howard was, is and always will be a good goalie who was also a head case and now is an injury proned over the hiller. 

In the end, Mrazek was, is and always will be a good goalie who was also a head case and now is a under 0.900 sv% proned 3.00 GAA allower. 

[Shaman 713]

23 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

In the end, Mrazek was, is and always will be a good goalie who was also a head case and now is a under 0.900 sv% proned 3.00 GAA allower. 

Literally this shows you know nothing about what you're talking about (though your long posting history is a testament to this fact). Mrazek isn't a head case, even the negative press he got said the exact opposite, that he's over confident. His problem is that he tries to complicate easy saves and hopes he can use his elite aestheticism to compensate.  

 

And also, by your logic Abdelkader a 20 goal scorer and Cheechoo is an elite player. Because one season really tells you a lot about a player.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, Shaman said:

Literally this shows you know nothing about what you're talking about (though your long posting history is a testament to this fact). Mrazek isn't a head case, even the negative press he got said the exact opposite, that he's over confident. His problem is that he tries to complicate easy saves and hopes he can use his elite aestheticism to compensate.  

 

And also, by your logic Abdelkader a 20 goal scorer and Cheechoo is an elite player. Because one season really tells you a lot about a player.

Literally this shows you know nothing about what you're talking about (though your long posting history is a testament to this fact). Mrazek is a head case, even the negative press he got said he has a bad attitude, that he's over confident. His problem is that he walks out on practices and pisses off his team.  

 

And also, by your logic Mrazek, a once Vezina candidate, is an elite player. Because one season really tells you a lot about a player.

[Shaman 713]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Literally this shows you know nothing about what you're talking about (though your long posting history is a testament to this fact). Mrazek is a head case, even the negative press he got said he has a bad attitude, that he's over confident. His problem is that he walks out on practices and pisses off his team.  

 

And also, by your logic Mrazek, a once Vezina candidate, is an elite player. Because one season really tells you a lot about a player.

Wow, you really are childish. Bad attitude is not the same as a head case. And I never said Mrazek was a vezina candidate or an elite player. I just pointed out the fact that there are a lot of criticisms about Howard that predate the emergence of Mrazek.

[MabusIncarnate 5,359]

Going forward, refrain from insulting and personally attacking other members. Have your opinion, that's fine. Opinions will conflict, that's fine also. Forums would be boring if everyone agreed with everyone. Tone it down and keep it in line, thank you.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 hours ago, Shaman said:

Wow, you really are childish. Bad attitude is not the same as a head case. And I never said Mrazek was a vezina candidate or an elite player. I just pointed out the fact that there are a lot of criticisms about Howard that predate the emergence of Mrazek.

Define: Head Case. Thanks.

And I never said Abdelkader or Cheechoo was an elite player either, yet here we are.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Mrazek will get the starting job the day his mental injuries are less than Howards physical ones. Will that day ever come? Stay tuned.

[kickazz 5,459]

49 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Mrazek will get the starting job the day his mental injuries are less than Howards physical ones. Will that day ever come? Stay tuned.

It will when he matures 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 9/29/2017 at 4:23 PM, kickazz said:

It will when he matures 

Or they could just go with this strategy. No more goalie controversy, no more need for top pairing D.