• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

HockeytownRules19

Athanasiou Signed 1 year $1.4 mil

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, wings4thecup06 said:

The real issue is management - they clearly don't care about building a winner, it's more about making money it seems at this point. And that's the sad part to me, because we shouldn't really be in this mess right now. Take the Daley signing, why? What worth is it having a veteran 3rd pairing D man (at best?) clogging up cap space (which we could have used for flexibility for signing AA) and a roster spot that we could just give to Jensen, or Russo and actually see what these kids have at the big league level. 

This is the one main point I disagree with. Management doesnt care about making money, that would be a directive from ownership. I'm pretty sure Holland and co. are paid the same whether the Wings net  X or net Y. 

1 hour ago, gcom007 said:

I definitely agree that I think it’d be nuts to buckle to the KHL prices and I don’t think anyone wants that. My point is that we shouldn’t be having this conversation. Had Holland been doing his whole job and thinking long term, we wouldn’t have to be here in this situation. This would’ve been buttoned up awhile ago with much less drama. You think any of this looks good for the Wings in any way? This is simply another part of the big picture of a crumbling empire with poor leadership.

There are too many important parts to the job to completely flounder at so many of them year after year. I used to think Holland was merely a bit washed up and unmotivated and perhaps too sentimental. At this point, I’m honestly starting to think he’s truly in over his head in the cap era. He consistently hasn’t been able to get the job done well since he started having to deal with the real ramifications of the salary cap era. Our current cap situation combined with years and years of stagnation and countless bad contracts before our current ones is evidence of a GM who doesn’t know how to effectively do their job anymore. This didn’t happen overnight, but signs of problems have been there for years and it keeps snowballing.

This team needs fresh thinking.

Ya there is no defending Holland's cap management. He's stuck in the days where he just pays the players he likes what he wants with zero consequences which worked great back in the early 2000's, not so much now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Or maybe Jake Bean?... :tounge2:

I think that is what kliq was referring to though. Maybe not a prospect like you and I are talking about, but a youngish up and coming defenseman that may be slotted on the 2nd / 3rd pair, but has the potential to be a number one, like a Trouba or Theodore. I'd be okay with going hard after any of these guys, but of course we won't because trades are hard...

Yes, 100%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, wings4thecup06 said:

And I agree, I totally get AA's perspective. He's young, talented, the world is his oyster. He probably looks up and sees all these equally talented young stars starting to get signed to good deals that pay them well and thinks why can't i get some too? I mean, a legitimate move to russia where he doesn't speak the language, everything is completely different is only really something for the bold hearted, so like you said, for him to genuinely consider it, things can't be all right and rosy in Detroit. I hope he stays, and we work this out, but it's almost like this is the last straw for me for Holland if he leaves. 

And I guess the counter argument about KH playing hardball and not offering the money? Why are we in this situation with AA? Is it his ego? Or is it because he's not getting the opportunity that many here feel he's deserved of? Or is it KH's flat refusal to allow the young players to legitimately take over the team, sink or swim, and still sign stupid veterans to contracts that just don't make sense and eat cap space. 

I think it's really interesting, and also pretty damn scary, that we've been in the position of potentially losing AA and Mrazek this summer because this team couldn't find a way to make them work in the system for one reason or another. No matter what you think of either of these players all in all at the end of the day, on a team that's sorely lacking in young talent, these are two guys who have at times shown some of the best potential we've seen from our roster.

Why is Mrazek struggling so much when he's shown that he's clearly capable of elite-level play and has had two solid playoff outings under his belt, and why in the hell are we seriously in a position where we made him available to Vegas in the expansion draft?

Why is AA ready to go to Russia at this point in his career?

Again, on a team that's so sorely lacking in legitimate young talent, these two things should be unthinkable. You've really got to wonder what is going on with this team from the top down that this stuff is going on. Money always plays a part in it, but it seems reasonable to suggest that it's a given that there's gotta be more to it, and clearly Blashill doesn't seem to be a player favorite, and few people seem able to come up with much to defend him.

Only thing I'll say to defend Blash is that he is a young NHL coach, and he's been dealt a s*** hand. Has he made countless fumbles? Yes, absolutely. But he could come around down the line, I'm willing to be open minded about it. 

But not on this team. Already too much poison in the air. Holland has to move aside for someone with a clear and new direction, and Blash has got to go. Probably next summer.

But hey, like Frank said, maybe we can ride this dumpster fire to that big #1 pick! Funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

AA has the chance to play with Pasha learn from him and make more money while doing so ad the Olympics and the decision is even easier. 

 

 Datsyuk plays on a completely different KHL team than the team offering AA.

 

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, joesuffP said:

Overpaying an RFA who is the worst of the 3 RFA's is not a good place to start with these young players. AA wants more than his league comparables based on his KHL offer. A stupid GM would give in to these demands and then every RFA next contract begins at 3M. I say let him go. The man is a glorified Emerson Etem at this point if he doesn't develop

If Holland hadn't lowballed him to begin with, and that original one year offer was an insult, AA might have signed for $2.2 mil for 2 years before he even got a KHL offer.

If he went in looking for $3 mil a year from the start, that would be a bad deal.  As much as I hate losing him, I wouldn't have given him that much either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, DickieDunn said:
22 hours ago, joesuffP said:

RFA next contract begins at 3M. I say let him go. The man is a glorified Emerson Etem at this point if he doesn't develop

If Holland hadn't lowballed him to begin with, and that original one year offer was an insult, AA might have signed for $2.2 mil for 2 years before he even got a KHL offer.

If he went in looking for $3 mil a year from the start, that would be a bad deal.  As much as I hate losing him, I wouldn't have given him that much either.

Could we have realistically offered AA that much what with Trevor whatshisface eating more than anyone ever asked of his share of the cake? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

If Holland hadn't lowballed him to begin with, and that original one year offer was an insult, AA might have signed for $2.2 mil for 2 years before he even got a KHL offer.

I still think people are reading too much into this situation and getting too worked up. The way I see it, nothing too unusual or alarming has happened, at least according to the reports/rumors that have been circulating. Holland opened with a lowball offer, as you'd expect him -- or anyone else in his position -- to do. Athanasiou's camp came to the table with an unrealistically high demand, as expected. The agent is clearly using the KHL as leverage, as any agent would do. (The KHL card is the only one AA can play; it's the only leverage he has. Such is the plight of the RFA.) Holland countered with a perfectly good let's-meet-in-the-middle offer, as you'd expect him to do. This is all pretty standard stuff.

The next and final step is "AA signs with the Wings." Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. If he does, great. If he doesn't and instead goes to the KHL (assuming this KHL thing isn't smoke and mirrors), then oh well, best of luck to him in his future endeavors. Holland can't allow himself to be bullied by an unproven RFA. He can't set that precedent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

has anyone actually thought that this has been worked between Kenny and AA? Go play in the K for a year help us out with our current cap issues, then I can give you a decent pay rise in 18-19 when ive got a ton of $s off the books !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Holland's whole rationale for not paying AA is that he'd then have to pay Mantha and Larkin more than the standard "bridge" deals as well.  He seems to be pretty dated in how he handles salary negotiations.  Many organizations are foregoing the "bridge" deal and locking young talent up to longer term contracts these days.  For example, Columbus game Alexander Wennberg 4.9 million over six years coming off his entry level contract. Likewise, Nashville have Viktor Arvidsson 4.25 million over 7 years.  Both were coming off their entry level contracts and were RFAs.  Considering both of these guys are better than AA, I'd say 2.5-3 million would be good for him, but over a long term

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NerveDamage said:

...you mean Bill

I meant TheAxe

51 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

So Holland's whole rationale for not paying AA is that he'd then have to pay Mantha and Larkin more than the standard "bridge" deals as well.  He seems to be pretty dated in how he handles salary negotiations.  Many organizations are foregoing the "bridge" deal and locking young talent up to longer term contracts these days.  For example, Columbus game Alexander Wennberg 4.9 million over six years coming off his entry level contract. Likewise, Nashville have Viktor Arvidsson 4.25 million over 7 years.  Both were coming off their entry level contracts and were RFAs.  Considering both of these guys are better than AA, I'd say 2.5-3 million would be good for him, but over a long term

I remember him saying in an interview that he's not a fan of paying players out like that and doesn't think it's the right way to go about things. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that Connor Brown got 2.1 (6.3 total) per year for 3 years, 1.9 per year for 2 years for AA seems like market rates. If AA wants to damage his career by playing in a lesser league for "more" money, that's his choice. And I put more in quotations because as a foreign worker who still is a Canadian citizen he will have to pay Russian and Canadian taxes on it. At least by playing in Detroit he gets a credit for taxes he would pay to the Canadian government, and wouldn't have to pay beyond his effective US tax rate (IE if his effective US tax rate is 25%, he pays 33% to the Canadian government, he would have have overpaid the US government 8%).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kickazz said:

I remember him saying in an interview that he's not a fan of paying players out like that and doesn't think it's the right way to go about things. 

And clearly his method is kicking all of the ass. Brav-effing-o.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

So Holland's whole rationale for not paying AA is that he'd then have to pay Mantha and Larkin more than the standard "bridge" deals as well.  He seems to be pretty dated in how he handles salary negotiations.  Many organizations are foregoing the "bridge" deal and locking young talent up to longer term contracts these days.  For example, Columbus game Alexander Wennberg 4.9 million over six years coming off his entry level contract. Likewise, Nashville have Viktor Arvidsson 4.25 million over 7 years.  Both were coming off their entry level contracts and were RFAs.  Considering both of these guys are better than AA, I'd say 2.5-3 million would be good for him, but over a long term

That's a mis-characterization. What was said is that he doesn't want to set the precedent of letting a player use a KHL offer to determine their NHL value. Nothing about bridge deals at all. Seeing as the KHL offer is reportedly one year, it's a bit of a speculative leap to assume that he would accept that amount over a longer-term deal. 

That said, $3M would probably not be a bad deal even short-term, though it is a bit above the apparent market value.

Also, it's probably premature to say bridge deals are "dated". Not going to bother looking, but I'd bet there are many more recent examples of players who have signed bridge deals than not. At least for players around AA's level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, kickazz said:

I meant TheAxe

I remember him saying in an interview that he's not a fan of paying players out like that and doesn't think it's the right way to go about things. 

No, he'd rather give the money to aging grinders who have zero chance at being worth their cap hit at the end of their deals

9 hours ago, Dabura said:

I still think people are reading too much into this situation and getting too worked up. The way I see it, nothing too unusual or alarming has happened, at least according to the reports/rumors that have been circulating. Holland opened with a lowball offer, as you'd expect him -- or anyone else in his position -- to do. Athanasiou's camp came to the table with an unrealistically high demand, as expected. The agent is clearly using the KHL as leverage, as any agent would do. (The KHL card is the only one AA can play; it's the only leverage he has. Such is the plight of the RFA.) Holland countered with a perfectly good let's-meet-in-the-middle offer, as you'd expect him to do. This is all pretty standard stuff.

The next and final step is "AA signs with the Wings." Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. If he does, great. If he doesn't and instead goes to the KHL (assuming this KHL thing isn't smoke and mirrors), then oh well, best of luck to him in his future endeavors. Holland can't allow himself to be bullied by an unproven RFA. He can't set that precedent.

the 2 year deal at $1.9 mil is recent according to reports.  Something in the $2-$2.5 mil/year range what AA was probably going to get all along.  Holland should have just skipped the obviously too low $1.25 a year deal and offered something fair.  And if he had to overpay a bit now, so what?  I'd rather have a young guy with potential making a little too much than a guy who has already hit his peak and will only decline getting that money.  Holland has it backwards though, pay your grinders and support players who are fairly easy to replace, try to nickel and dime your young talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will now start being super blunt about the KHL. Going there isn't tax free and in fact he could be double taxed because Russia may not have a double taxation law like the US has. Here are relevant quotes on the topic of a Canadian citizen working overseas (Russia):

 

Quote

Canadians travelling extensively, living or working abroad still have to pay Canadian and provincial or territorial income taxes. It is important that you know your residency status and the income tax rules that apply to you while you are outside Canada.

This is straight from the Canadian government.

Here's from Canadian tax experts:

Quote

"You cannot reduce your tax burden if you are a Canadian resident working and living abroad," says Allan Madan, a chartered accountant and tax expert in Toronto.

Cleo Hamel, a senior tax analyst with H&R Block, says many Canadians only realize their mistake years after departing the country. Many assume payment of Canadian taxes isn't required if they live outside the country for a year.

"Most people think about the actual move or they think about the life that they're going to lead outside of the country, without actually thinking or researching if there are any tax implications," she said from Calgary.

 

But experts in the field say the only way to legally free yourself of Canadian income tax is to completely sever ties with the country and become a permanent resident elsewhere.

So unless AA becomes a permanent resident of Russia, he has to pay taxes.

The whole AA won't pay taxes is a trope that needs to die. He has to pay taxes. And he actually will likely pay less by playing in Michigan (both total amount and effective rate) than he would in Kazan because the US government has provisions that prevent you from being effectively double taxed.

Edited by Shaman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shaman said:

I will now start being super blunt about the KHL. Going there isn't tax free and in fact he could be double taxed because Russia may not have a double taxation law like the US has. Here are relevant quotes on the topic of a Canadian citizen working overseas (Russia):

 

This is straight from the Canadian government.

Here's from Canadian tax experts:

Damn.

You just shut so many people down on this thread. So why is AA interested in KHL? Is it true, is he in fact... an imbecile?

Btw I am curious why no one has given AA an offer sheet.

Edited by kickazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Damn.

You just shut so many people down on this thread. So why is AA interested in KHL? Is it true, is he in fact... an imbecile?

Btw I am curious why no one has given AA an offer sheet.

It's probably just his agent looking for as much leverage as he can where his client would usually have next to none. I could also understand the Olympics being a factor.. wouldn't blame him for wanting to play there.  

I still feel like AA will end up signing before camp but we'll see I suppose. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Btw I am curious why no one has given AA an offer sheet.

Me too. It´s not a practice to do so nowadays, but this is the case, when I´d understand.  What would Holland do? Start offer sheeting their players??? ololololo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now