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2019 Draft

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43 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Rasmussen: 6'6" 221 lbs

Brannstrom: 5'10" 173 lbs

D3a0j_eV4AUSvXS.jpg

Size doesn’t matter lmao

18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

What "list"? People keep bringing up this magical list, as if they've ever seen an NHL team's rankings...

You're assuming the Habs had Zadina ahead of Kotkaniemi, but decided to take Kotkaniemi anyway? Yeah, okay...

I know teams draft for need, but like I said, only when players are comparably ranked by their scouts. No GM is going to knowingly take a lesser player just because he fills a position of need. It doesn't happen, and if ever did happen, someone is losing their job...

How do you know? Have you seen this magical list? Maybe they had him a notch above and decided the need for center was a greater need for them which it was so they did the right move , that teams been lacking a #1 center for 20 years 

What’s a lesser player for you mean? You think if the wings have 6 forwards ahead of tuomisto and then tuomisto they would have taken the forward ? Cause I don’t nessarily see it that way ... you think if kaliyev was available they’d have taken him or passed? I think they were targeting tuomisto at #35 no matter who was there , Id bet all the internet money you want prior to the draft yzerman told the scouts to specially target dmen that can help this team turn around , I think there’s zero coincidence we targeted 3 dmen with our first 4 picks 

 

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1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

We’ll have to yet again agree to disagree 

 

no point missed , it’s called a difference of opinion ... they might have had players in the same tier doesn’t mean when it comes time to select and they See zadina  ahead of kotkaniemi on the  list let’s say,even though they think zadina will have a better statistical career than kotkaniemi they  think it won’t be that much better and since they desperately need to find a center and nobody will come here and teams aren’t trading #1centers they just decide to draft the player themselves 

if you don’t think teams never draft for need Then I don’t know what to tell you , we simply won’t  agree on this .... I never said yzerman didn’t want seider at 6 he probably would have taken him at 2 after byram knowing kakko and hughes would be gone cause we were going to address our defence this draft plain and simple , same with #35 tuomisto Who was probably more like 15-25 on the wings list 

 

anyways is what it is and I hope it all works out for us

You can't win.  There is a HUGE falacy in KRS' argument, and he knows it.

 

Seider gets picked at 6 because we dont have a defenseman in our entire system that could turn into a true #1 D.  He gets picked 10 spots ahead of where 99% of hockey minds expect.  These people all agree that there were better players available (Cozens, etc.).

 

KRS, trying to save face that is completely hippopotamus diarrhea sprayed at this point from all his pre-draft rhetoric about BPA, resorts to the "In Yzerman's mind" defense.

 

A) nobody knows what Yzerman is thinking except Steve Yzerman

B) Yzerman isnt an idiot so he isnt going to divulge everything he's thinking

C) KRS is pretending like people are blaming Yzerman (strawman extraordinaire) for the pick when no one is

 

Agreeing to disagree only works if KRS doesnt really believe his argument is bunk.  But he knows it is.  Everybody does.

 

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57 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You can't win.  There is a HUGE falacy in KRS' argument, and he knows it.

 

Seider gets picked at 6 because we dont have a defenseman in our entire system that could turn into a true #1 D.  He gets picked 10 spots ahead of where 99% of hockey minds expect.  These people all agree that there were better players available (Cozens, etc.).

 

KRS, trying to save face that is completely hippopotamus diarrhea sprayed at this point from all his pre-draft rhetoric about BPA, resorts to the "In Yzerman's mind" defense.

 

A) nobody knows what Yzerman is thinking except Steve Yzerman

B) Yzerman isnt an idiot so he isnt going to divulge everything he's thinking

C) KRS is pretending like people are blaming Yzerman (strawman extraordinaire) for the pick when no one is

 

Agreeing to disagree only works if KRS doesnt really believe his argument is bunk.  But he knows it is.  Everybody does.

 

Talking about not being able to win, your counter argument is essentially "nuh uh, we drafted for need, it's obvious."

We have a need literally everywhere, Yzerman came out and said "we're just drafting the best prospects regardless of position" and you're still going nuh uh. 

I'm gonna side with the GM and KR on this one, you're being obstinate. Hard to argue with someone who'd just assume they're being lied to rather than believe they're wrong. 

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1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Size doesn’t matter lmao

How do you know? Have you seen this magical list? Maybe they had him a notch above and decided the need for center was a greater need for them which it was so they did the right move , that teams been lacking a #1 center for 20 years 

What’s a lesser player for you mean? You think if the wings have 6 forwards ahead of tuomisto and then tuomisto they would have taken the forward ? Cause I don’t nessarily see it that way ... you think if kaliyev was available they’d have taken him or passed? I think they were targeting tuomisto at #35 no matter who was there , Id bet all the internet money you want prior to the draft yzerman told the scouts to specially target dmen that can help this team turn around , I think there’s zero coincidence we targeted 3 dmen with our first 4 picks 

How do I know what? My point is, none of us have seen THE lists for NHL teams. Therefore, none of us know where Kotkaniemi was on Bergevin's list or Seider was on Yzerman's list. 

We've seen the same lists (give or take) circulated all season, and because none of Bob McKenzie, Craig Button or Corey Pronman had Seider high on their lists, some of you think it's impossible that Yzerman had Seider at the top of his list...

Yes, I do think if we had 6 forwards ahead of Tuomisto, we would have taken one of the forwards. However, if we had Tuomisto and 6 forwards ranked similarly, it is possible that we could have taken Tuomisto ahead of the forwards based on need. I'd disagree with that decision because I think one of the 6 forwards would have filled a bigger need, but whatever.

So you'll bet all the internet money on Yzerman telling his scouts to specifically target defensemen, despite him saying otherwise before and after the draft? Cool...

38 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You can't win.  There is a HUGE falacy in KRS' argument, and he knows it.

Seider gets picked at 6 because we dont have a defenseman in our entire system that could turn into a true #1 D.  He gets picked 10 spots ahead of where 99% of hockey minds expect.  These people all agree that there were better players available (Cozens, etc.).

KRS, trying to save face that is completely hippopotamus diarrhea sprayed at this point from all his pre-draft rhetoric about BPA, resorts to the "In Yzerman's mind" defense.

A) nobody knows what Yzerman is thinking except Steve Yzerman

B) Yzerman isnt an idiot so he isnt going to divulge everything he's thinking

C) KRS is pretending like people are blaming Yzerman (strawman extraordinaire) for the pick when no one is

Agreeing to disagree only works if KRS doesnt really believe his argument is bunk.  But he knows it is.  Everybody does.

If Seider truly was picked 10 spots ahead of where he should have been, that would make him a player that should have been picked in the 16+ range. How many GM's think it's realistic to get a true number one defenseman in that range? How many GM's think it's wise to take the 16th best player on their own list at number 6? 

A) You're right. Nobody knows what Yzerman is thinking except Yzerman. So all we can go on is what Yzerman had told us, and that is, he did not pick based on need, he picked what he and his scouts believe were the best players available...

B) You're right. Yzerman isn't an idiot. An idiot would pick a player "10 spots ahead" of where he had him ranked. I'm glad Yzerman didn't do this... No, he isn't going to divulge everything he's thinking, but he did give us a pretty good idea of his thought process before and after the draft...

C) I'm not pretending like anyone is blaming Yzerman. I'm just saying that Yzerman picked what he believes was BPA. No, I didn't see his list. No, I can't read his mind. I'm basing this on two things... what he's told us, and common sense... I know that last part is difficult for you to comprehend...

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4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

How do I know what? My point is, none of us have seen THE lists for NHL teams. Therefore, none of us know where Kotkaniemi was on Bergevin's list or Seider was on Yzerman's list. 

We've seen the same lists (give or take) circulated all season, and because none of Bob McKenzie, Craig Button or Corey Pronman had Seider high on their lists, some of you think it's impossible that Yzerman had Seider at the top of his list...

Yes, I do think if we had 6 forwards ahead of Tuomisto, we would have taken one of the forwards. However, if we had Tuomisto and 6 forwards ranked similarly, it is possible that we could have taken Tuomisto ahead of the forwards based on need. I'd disagree with that decision because I think one of the 6 forwards would have filled a bigger need, but whatever.

So you'll bet all the internet money on Yzerman telling his scouts to specifically target defensemen, despite him saying otherwise before and after the draft? Cool...

If Seider truly was picked 10 spots ahead of where he should have been, that would make him a player that should have been picked in the 16+ range. How many GM's think it's realistic to get a true number one defenseman in that range? How many GM's think it's wise to take the 16th best player on their own list at number 6? 

A) You're right. Nobody knows what Yzerman is thinking except Yzerman. So all we can go on is what Yzerman had told us, and that is, he did not pick based on need, he picked what he and his scouts believe were the best players available...

B) You're right. Yzerman isn't an idiot. An idiot would pick a player "10 spots ahead" of where he had him ranked. I'm glad Yzerman didn't do this... No, he isn't going to divulge everything he's thinking, but he did give us a pretty good idea of his thought process before and after the draft...

C) I'm not pretending like anyone is blaming Yzerman. I'm just saying that Yzerman picked what he believes was BPA. No, I didn't see his list. No, I can't read his mind. I'm basing this on two things... what he's told us, and common sense... I know that last part is difficult for you to comprehend...

Fair enough.  Truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.  As in, best player available for the red wings specifically.

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You can't win.  There is a HUGE falacy in KRS' argument, and he knows it.

 

Seider gets picked at 6 because we dont have a defenseman in our entire system that could turn into a true #1 D.  He gets picked 10 spots ahead of where 99% of hockey minds expect.  These people all agree that there were better players available (Cozens, etc.).

 

KRS, trying to save face that is completely hippopotamus diarrhea sprayed at this point from all his pre-draft rhetoric about BPA, resorts to the "In Yzerman's mind" defense.

 

A) nobody knows what Yzerman is thinking except Steve Yzerman

B) Yzerman isnt an idiot so he isnt going to divulge everything he's thinking

C) KRS is pretending like people are blaming Yzerman (strawman extraordinaire) for the pick when no one is

 

Agreeing to disagree only works if KRS doesnt really believe his argument is bunk.  But he knows it is.  Everybody does.

 

I’m not pissed with the seider pick , I would have liked to trade back but it wasn’t possible at least yzerman in his first year went in with the mindset that we need to finally fix this teams biggest problem by a landslide since lidstrom left , I would have preferred Matthew Robertson at 35 and trading up to land another pick for seider but it is what it is and at least yzerman is ready to fix our defence once and for all

38 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Talking about not being able to win, your counter argument is essentially "nuh uh, we drafted for need, it's obvious."

We have a need literally everywhere, Yzerman came out and said "we're just drafting the best prospects regardless of position" and you're still going nuh uh. 

I'm gonna side with the GM and KR on this one, you're being obstinate. Hard to argue with someone who'd just assume they're being lied to rather than believe they're wrong. 

Too be fair though every gm are going to use the we need help everywhere and we’ll always draft the bpa stuff , it’s repeated every year in every hockey market I do think we had a mindset that we had to fix our defence 

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47 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

How do I know what? My point is, none of us have seen THE lists for NHL teams. Therefore, none of us know where Kotkaniemi was on Bergevin's list or Seider was on Yzerman's list. 

We've seen the same lists (give or take) circulated all season, and because none of Bob McKenzie, Craig Button or Corey Pronman had Seider high on their lists, some of you think it's impossible that Yzerman had Seider at the top of his list...

Yes, I do think if we had 6 forwards ahead of Tuomisto, we would have taken one of the forwards. However, if we had Tuomisto and 6 forwards ranked similarly, it is possible that we could have taken Tuomisto ahead of the forwards based on need. I'd disagree with that decision because I think one of the 6 forwards would have filled a bigger need, but whatever.

So you'll bet all the internet money on Yzerman telling his scouts to specifically target defensemen, despite him saying otherwise before and after the draft? Cool...

If Seider truly was picked 10 spots ahead of where he should have been, that would make him a player that should have been picked in the 16+ range. How many GM's think it's realistic to get a true number one defenseman in that range? How many GM's think it's wise to take the 16th best player on their own list at number 6? 

A) You're right. Nobody knows what Yzerman is thinking except Yzerman. So all we can go on is what Yzerman had told us, and that is, he did not pick based on need, he picked what he and his scouts believe were the best players available...

B) You're right. Yzerman isn't an idiot. An idiot would pick a player "10 spots ahead" of where he had him ranked. I'm glad Yzerman didn't do this... No, he isn't going to divulge everything he's thinking, but he did give us a pretty good idea of his thought process before and after the draft...

C) I'm not pretending like anyone is blaming Yzerman. I'm just saying that Yzerman picked what he believes was BPA. No, I didn't see his list. No, I can't read his mind. I'm basing this on two things... what he's told us, and common sense... I know that last part is difficult for you to comprehend...

I told you I’d be willing to bet any internet money seider was #2 after byram on the wings list and tuomisto at 35 was probably in the 15-30 range on our list because we were specially targeting dmen early on to fix this mess we been dealing with since lidstrom retired 

tyler Wright himself on the Draft interviews said they had their sights on tuomisto at 35 , they weren’t going to pick anyone else they liked the guy, again it’s my opinion we were targeting to fix up the d core you don’t wanna have the same opinion that’s fine , that’s my take on it 

despite what yzerman says before and after the draft? What did he say? You do realize they only tell the media what they want to say right ? They never tell us the truth about everything and hold s*** back, you know this right? So let’s not pretend that it’s impossible for him to urge his draft scouts to specially target dmen that can carry the play because our team is in dire need of it ... he just walks in and says best player available guys , good meeting 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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41 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Fair enough.  Truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.  As in, best player available for the red wings specifically.

Well, No S***! That's literally what I've been saying all along... Of course I'm talking about the best player available on the Wings list... What other list is there? 

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I love the Seider pick!  Watch that guy being interviewed he's very sharp, self-aware, and seemingly willing to be a team guy.

The argument about where he should have been picked is based on mock drafts... remember these guys aren't scouts they just play them on TV. 

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36 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I told you I’d be willing to bet any internet money seider was #2 after byram on the wings list and tuomisto at 35 was probably in the 15-30 range on our list because we were specially targeting dmen early on to fix this mess we been dealing with since lidstrom retired 

tyler Wright himself on the Draft interviews said they had their sights on tuomisto at 35 , they weren’t going to pick anyone else they liked the guy, again it’s my opinion we were targeting to fix up the d core you don’t wanna have the same opinion that’s fine , that’s my take on it 

despite what yzerman says before and after the draft? What did he say? You do realize they only tell the media what they want to say right ? They never tell us the truth about everything and hold s*** back, you know this right? So let’s not pretend that it’s impossible for him to urge his draft scouts to specially target dmen that can carry the play because our team is in dire need of it ... he just walks in and says best player available guys , good meeting 

LOL, yeah okay. You believe what you want to believe. I'll believe that Yzerman isn't a complete moron...

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL, yeah okay. You believe what you want to believe. I'll believe that Yzerman isn't a complete moron...

Never said yzerman is a complete moron ... believe what you wanna believe

 

It works best for the both of us ;) 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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It just tells me that Yzerman was not on the Broberg Train, or he would've traded back to 10 and if Holland took Seider, then he just would've taken Broberg.  But instead he just took Seider.  Thats it, that is probably his reasoning.  He wanted D, wasn't impressed with Broberg, and didn't have any other D ranked high enough to draft at 10.  He didn't want to gamble and make the Vancouver trade and risk Holland taking Seider.

Funny, I've seen on Twitter some so called "experts" giving The Red Wings a grade of D- or F when it comes to the draft.  Relax experts, nobody drafts in accordance with you. Here's a comparison. I can image what our "grade" was after the 1989 draft.  Pretend you all don't know how 1989 turned out for us and then loo at it like you're looking at the 2019 draft.  Keep in mind Russians were never going to come over to the NHL, especially defecting from The Red Army.  Sure, Mike Sillinger was probably the BPA at #11, considering his stats, and despite playing so many games, he never brought these stats to the NHL:

image.png.ef594b74fa62fae0f8c7b6a8cb3bfeab.png

Bob Bougher had some impressive stats as well for a D, but again, never really translated to the NHL and never played a single game in Detroit, and never an NHL games until 1995-96. Here are his junior stats:

image.png.d090cec73b02fc4b131a97c1e8f113c0.png

...and considering Nick Lidstrom's stats were not "wham bam, thank you ma'am" nobody probably thought that he was on an outstanding pick either:

image.png.f00e1c01b11a77dc66095d213e132492.png

...again, The Russian's were never going to come over, so The Wings probably got laughed at when they chose Fedorov and Konstantinov.  But look at this draft and tell me that it wasn't graded much higher than a D. Dallas Drake being one of thoise late round steals (too bad, not all 1000 games for the Red Wings though.)  Of course, everyone in the world knows how it turned out after 20 years!

image.png.9d6a6db7400a62e61a48f9242839c6cd.png

In hindsight this was an A++++++++ draft.  Here's to hoping that a few of our picks this year make 2019 a home run as well!

I,like many of you preferred somebody else at #6.  I was really hoping for Cozins since he was there, but who's to say that Seider isn't (not saying he's Lidstrom) another Lidstrom?  When Lidstrom was drafted, see above, his stats didn't scream 7 Norris Trophies, 4 Stanley Cups, 11 All-Star Games, over 1500 games played, number retired....you get where I'm going.  Let's just see which direction Seider is going within the next 3-4 years before everyone calls Yzerman a moron. Ya?

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I wonder if the Hawk fans are complaining about overdrafting Dach. Some people had him in the 7-10 range near the end. I could easily see Seider being in the 10 spot on a number of lists. Not that bad of an overdraft. Personally I love the pick.  Of course I love the Rasmussen pick too

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19 minutes ago, HoweFan said:

I wonder if the Hawk fans are complaining about overdrafting Dach. Some people had him in the 7-10 range near the end. I could easily see Seider being in the 10 spot on a number of lists. Not that bad of an overdraft. Personally I love the pick.

Same. I'm really excited to see what this kid can do. 

20 minutes ago, HoweFan said:

Of course I love the Rasmussen pick too

At the time I wanted Vilardi. Now with all the injury concerns, I'm happy we took Rasmussen over him. In hindsight though, I wish we had taken Necas...

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41 minutes ago, HoweFan said:

I wonder if the Hawk fans are complaining about overdrafting Dach. Some people had him in the 7-10 range near the end. I could easily see Seider being in the 10 spot on a number of lists. Not that bad of an overdraft. Personally I love the pick.  Of course I love the Rasmussen pick too

One guy had Seider as high as #8.  So hes not a left field type of reach.  Yzerman drafted the guy he felt had the best chance of turning into a number 1D.  A move i didnt like on kneejerk reaction, but a move I dig now.  

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29 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

One guy had Seider as high as #8.  So hes not a left field type of reach.  Yzerman drafted the guy he felt had the best chance of turning into a number 1D.  A move i didnt like on kneejerk reaction, but a move I dig now.  

One guy had him at 5 also. 

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Some thoughts.

Yzerman said he explored trading back but nobody wanted to

"Should have been picked later" is subject to debate, is based mostly on opinion, and generally changes after a few years.  Lidstrom "should have been" picked #1 overall.  "Yzerman "shouldn't have" slid to #4.  Yzerman personally scouted Seider and liked what he saw, I'll trust him until he shows he shouldn't be trusted.

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Going a bit off topic here , didn’t wanna make another thread 

 

Was checking next years crop and seen a lot of guys that just missed the cut , lafraniere  and Lindell will basically be 19 when October comes and the season starts 

if they made the cut where would they have ranked? Happy with seider but maybe byram would have fell to us? Hughes Or lafraniere first ? I’d say lafraniere 

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13 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Just wanna say it's refreshing to be excited about a D prospect for like the first time in forever

Hronek? Cholowski? McIsaac?

Has Seider already surpassed all of them in your mind?

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