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2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

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1 minute ago, LeftWinger said:

so, it's rumored that Yzerman still may get another fwd and D. if so, what would guys say to:

Jake Gardiner

Brian Boyle 

both on 1 or 2 year deals. 

Gusev and Trouba, or Stephen can take his ass back to Florida

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41 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

so, it's rumored that Yzerman still may get another fwd and D. if so, what would guys say to:

Jake Gardiner

Brian Boyle 

both on 1 or 2 year deals. 

I doubt either take 1 or 2 year deals, unless it's with a legit contender, and Gardiner is likely going to be overpaid... I'm not interested in adding any more players, unless they're needle movers. Gardiner or Boyle don't move the needle enough for me...

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1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

so, it's rumored that Yzerman still may get another fwd and D. if so, what would guys say to:

Jake Gardiner

Brian Boyle 

both on 1 or 2 year deals. 

I honestly think Gardiner will cost too much. I'm not sure about Boyle. Personally, if they're going to add a RW and D still, I'd like to see something like this:

RW Options:
   Jason Pominville (could be had on a short term deal, can provide middle 6 scoring)
   Justin Williams (could be had on a short term deal, can provide some scoring, great locker room guy and leader)
   Valeri Nichushkin (young, just bought out by Dallas, reclamation project)
   Jimmy Hayes
   Devante Smith-Pelly 
   Drew Stafford
   Michael Ferland
   Marcus Johansson
   Ryan Dzingel

D Options:
   Ben Chiarot
   Ben Hutton
   Michael Del Zotto
   

Edited by SwedeLundin77

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2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Ferland, Johansson, and Dzingel are still out there as well.

I don't think Gardiner will make a decision till Marner's contract situation is done and settled, but that's just speculation on my part.

Forgot about those options as well, also very solid options if we are to add another winger. I still feel that we should let the kids play, at this point. It's already bad enough that we have Filppula AND Nielsen AND Helm... wish we could trade 2 of them.

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2 minutes ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Forgot about those options as well, also very solid options if we are to add another winger. I still feel that we should let the kids play, at this point. It's already bad enough that we have Filppula AND Nielsen AND Helm... wish we could trade 2 of them.

The roster always look crowded until the season starts and we consistently have 2-3 players injured

Meh Fil is just there for AA to move back to wing. I like that Yzerman is definitively ending the center experiment with him. Tells me Yzerman has a clear vision of what the future should look like, and personally I think AA is better as a winger.

Helm probably won't play much center either.

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16 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

so, it's rumored that Yzerman still may get another fwd and D. if so, what would guys say to:

Jake Gardiner

Brian Boyle 

both on 1 or 2 year deals. 

Gardiner isn't going to be signing a short term deal like that IMO. And to be honest, I don't think we should even try to do anything of significance, even if the opportunity is there. Until Yzerman can get some of the bad contracts off the books (Nielsen, Abdelkader, Helm) they don't really have room for any big free agent signings. Bertuzzi, AA, and Mantha will all need raises next year, so we'll need to make sure they've got lots of room for those guys.

This team simply won't be competitive while having 8m+ locked up in two 4th liners, and 5.5m locked up in a 3rd line center. The most prudent move is to sit tight for the next two seasons, and wait until Helm's contract is off the books (I'd love Helm at 1m, but 3.85m is f***in ridiculous). They might be able to do something with Nielsen at that point (maybe retain a portion of his salary and send him off for a middle-late pick). I can't see us being able to do anything with Abdelkader though, he's got zilch for value. Maybe in 2 years we can package him up with a prospect and send him off to a team looking to reach the cap floor. But, we might just be stuck with a 4.25m 4th liner for the next 4 seasons.

Once those guys are dealt with, we should be entering a window where a lot of our current prospects are entering their prime. Pull the trigger on a big FA center, and a top pairing D-man and we've got a legit contender. No sense in making a big move now though.

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13 minutes ago, stud_defenseman said:

Gardiner isn't going to be signing a short term deal like that IMO. And to be honest, I don't think we should even try to do anything of significance, even if the opportunity is there. Until Yzerman can get some of the bad contracts off the books (Nielsen, Abdelkader, Helm) they don't really have room for any big free agent signings. Bertuzzi, AA, and Mantha will all need raises next year, so we'll need to make sure they've got lots of room for those guys.

This team simply won't be competitive while having 8m+ locked up in two 4th liners, and 5.5m locked up in a 3rd line center. The most prudent move is to sit tight for the next two seasons, and wait until Helm's contract is off the books (I'd love Helm at 1m, but 3.85m is f***in ridiculous). They might be able to do something with Nielsen at that point (maybe retain a portion of his salary and send him off for a middle-late pick). I can't see us being able to do anything with Abdelkader though, he's got zilch for value. Maybe in 2 years we can package him up with a prospect and send him off to a team looking to reach the cap floor. But, we might just be stuck with a 4.25m 4th liner for the next 4 seasons.

Once those guys are dealt with, we should be entering a window where a lot of our current prospects are entering their prime. Pull the trigger on a big FA center, and a top pairing D-man and we've got a legit contender. No sense in making a big move now though.

Those contracts you mentioned... why were they signed???  I think any fan who looked at those players objectively thought those were excessive/bad contracts.  How did an experienced management team miss the mark so badly, so often.

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17 hours ago, amato said:

How about 

Moritz Seider 

Nikita Gusev 

I wonder if there is any water to the rumor that Detroit is showing interest in Gusev?  Somewhere on Twitter (I cannot find the tweet now) his agent said there were three teams inquiring about him and Detroit was one of them.  I know Tampa drafted him originally, so I guess Yzerman would have a bit of an interest in him maybe?

Anyhow, knowing that Vegas has virtually zero cap space, what could be done to help them out and also get us Gusev.  I see a lot of folks talking about Clasrkson, but if he is on LTIR, his cap hit can be used if needed, ya?  But what could be done?  Rumor has is Cody Eakin and or Ryan Reeves could be traded.  Would you take one of those expiring contracts in order to get Gusev? 

Is this proposal too outrageous?

to DET : Nikta Gusev, Ryan Reeves (or another contract dump,) Conditional 1st (top 10 protected 2020 or 2021)

to VGK : 2020 2nd (Washington) 

...I only put the 1st in there because of what Toronto had to give up to dump Marleau and they only got a 6th in return, I'm giving back a 2nd.

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Here's something a little interesting:

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/roster

While not all the way up yo date (they are missing Flip) but they show the 2019-2020 roster with Mike Green on the IR.  I wonder if he is done? Could be another reason for the Nemeth signing, and  also why neither of Ericsson or Daley were bought out.  Plus Kronwall is still deciding whether to return or not.

image.png.2d2d834966eb8a0741f444757e3567d4.png

image.png.0fdac00f452ccbfcc98214dee313739d.png

 

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1 hour ago, mackel said:

Those contracts you mentioned... why were they signed???  I think any fan who looked at those players objectively thought those were excessive/bad contracts.  How did an experienced management team miss the mark so badly, so often.

I wish I knew the answer to that! For Helm and Abdelkader, I think it comes down to misplaced loyalty and a poor assessment of their actual value. Holland clearly overestimated what these guys brought to the table. Abdelkader was coming off a good year, but he was playing with Datsyuk and Zetterberg and getting PP time. Of course he's going to put up some points. The guy is a grinder though, nothing more. I compare him at that time to someone like Zach Hyman on the Leafs. He plays on the top line, but his role is to fore check and create space for the big guns. He's a third line guy that works hard, and who has happened to find a spot on the top unit. Both he and the Leafs know what he really is though and he gets paid accordingly.

At his very best, Helm might have passed for a 3rd-line C, but he got paid like a top-shelf 3C / low-end 2C . Right now I'd say he's a really good 4C, but not much more than that. Again, I think loyalty played a lot into it.

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2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Is this proposal too outrageous?

to DET : Nikta Gusev, Ryan Reeves (or another contract dump,) Conditional 1st (top 10 protected 2020 or 2021)

to VGK : 2020 2nd (Washington) 

Yeah I don't think you get a 1st. The Prize here is the rights to Gusev. A good contract dump to attach to Gusev could be Clarkson. 

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Here's something a little interesting:

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/roster

While not all the way up yo date (they are missing Flip) but they show the 2019-2020 roster with Mike Green on the IR.  I wonder if he is done? Could be another reason for the Nemeth signing, and  also why neither of Ericsson or Daley were bought out.  Plus Kronwall is still deciding whether to return or not.

image.png.2d2d834966eb8a0741f444757e3567d4.png

image.png.0fdac00f452ccbfcc98214dee313739d.png

 

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Yzerman said everyone's healthy.

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7 hours ago, stud_defenseman said:

Gardiner isn't going to be signing a short term deal like that IMO. And to be honest, I don't think we should even try to do anything of significance, even if the opportunity is there. Until Yzerman can get some of the bad contracts off the books (Nielsen, Abdelkader, Helm) they don't really have room for any big free agent signings. Bertuzzi, AA, and Mantha will all need raises next year, so we'll need to make sure they've got lots of room for those guys.

This team simply won't be competitive while having 8m+ locked up in two 4th liners, and 5.5m locked up in a 3rd line center. The most prudent move is to sit tight for the next two seasons, and wait until Helm's contract is off the books (I'd love Helm at 1m, but 3.85m is f***in ridiculous). They might be able to do something with Nielsen at that point (maybe retain a portion of his salary and send him off for a middle-late pick). I can't see us being able to do anything with Abdelkader though, he's got zilch for value. Maybe in 2 years we can package him up with a prospect and send him off to a team looking to reach the cap floor. But, we might just be stuck with a 4.25m 4th liner for the next 4 seasons.

Once those guys are dealt with, we should be entering a window where a lot of our current prospects are entering their prime. Pull the trigger on a big FA center, and a top pairing D-man and we've got a legit contender. No sense in making a big move now though.

You realize we had over $20 million in cap space this year? The way things are looking we may be under the cap even without using any LTIR for Zetterberg and Franzen. We could have easily signed Panarin and still afforded big raises for AA, Mantha, and Bert. Could have afforded Panarin and Trouba in fact, without even dumping salary. 

Bad as they might be, those contracts are not hurting us.

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22 minutes ago, Buppy said:

You realize we had over $20 million in cap space this year? The way things are looking we may be under the cap even without using any LTIR for Zetterberg and Franzen. We could have easily signed Panarin and still afforded big raises for AA, Mantha, and Bert. Could have afforded Panarin and Trouba in fact, without even dumping salary. 

Bad as they might be, those contracts are not hurting us.

That being said, next July when all of Howard (re-sign?) Ericsson, Daley, Green, (of course Franzen's) all drop off the cap, do you think then Yzerman will be looking to male a huge splash at a UFA or two?  We have $36M in cap before the RFA's contracts. Lets say $6M each for AA and Mantha, and #3M for Bertuzzi.  The others (Bowey, Svech, Kaski, Kuffner, Hirose, etc...) won't be really any concern of topping $1M-$1.5M I do believe. So that should leave us $21M without Z's contract, $27M with it on LTIR.  There could be a lot of damage thrown around from Yzerman. Then again, looking at the UFA crop next season, as it stands, not many forwards that look worth it and only the same crop of D look worth trying for (Trouba, Krug, Faulk, Hamonic.)  I think that Krug might be the top target, especially if Trouba stays in New York.  The G UFA's don't look good at all.  How much is Holtby going to get paid? He's about the only one worth trying to get, but at what cost?

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My theory is Yzerman is taking a Hippocratic approach to the team this season. Do no harm, take a year to really evaluate what he's working with, see what happens with the CBA next summer, maybe Seattle expansion if that's still a possibility for next summer.

Free agency doesn't seem to be Yzerman's thing; Stralman being the closest thing to a big signing as he's made; and there probably won't be much of any worth on the market. I wouldn't expect anything exciting, but better than this summer at least, plus maybe a trade. 

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On 7/2/2019 at 11:44 AM, nyqvististhefuture said:

Our future .... Didn’t even know a few things myself haha

Ok I finally watched this. I see why the Red Wings like Gustav Lindstrom. He seemed to have at least some understanding of the world around him.

It's really shocking how little they know. I didn't grow up with records or record players, but you show me that s*** and I'm like yea that's a record, it plays music idiot. I could have told someone that at a much younger age than they are.

I half expect them to whip out a black berry and them be like "IDK a calculator?" Almost seems put on, cause they're pretty ******* dumb.

Also Zadina said in response to the moon shoes: "I don't know... Shoes to be poor?" I like that so much that I am hereby switching my opinion on Zadina officially. This is a future 90 pt winger we have and if anyone calls him Zagina again I will lose my mind on you.

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Athletic: Red Wings Devlopment Camp (Paywall)

Basically: Seider is a beast, offensive instincts vastly underrated (my nick lidstrom cock is so hard right now)

Berggren, Veleno, and Hirose all looked awesome.

Kivenmaki also has undeniable offensive talent and instinct, and has added 18 pounds since last season. That would put him at 5'8" 155 lbs based on his elite prospects profile from earlier this year. I so hope he can get to 175 lbs and become a thick little MSL nugget player who scores a ton of points.

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4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Athletic: Red Wings Devlopment Camp (Paywall)

Basically: Seider is a beast, offensive instincts vastly underrated (my nick lidstrom cock is so hard right now)

Berggren, Veleno, and Hirose all looked awesome.

Kivenmaki also has undeniable offensive talent and instinct, and has added 18 pounds since last season. That would put him at 5'8" 155 lbs based on his elite prospects profile from earlier this year. I so hope he can get to 175 lbs and become a thick little MSL nugget player who scores a ton of points.

The player I was unexpectedly most impressed with is Ethan Phillips. Kid is small, at 5'9", 150lbs. but has a ton of skill. He has the hockey IQ, speed and hands. Bold prediction... Phillips becomes our version of Brayden Point...

And I agree, Seider is going to be an absolute beast in a few years.

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