• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Dabura

2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, Buppy said:

No, but typically RFAs would prefer to wait unless they think they can get a big payday already. They have no leverage now. Mantha and Bert in particular are probably optimistic about their ability to increase their value this season. I could see AA going for a deal this summer though, but in his case it may be Yzerman would want to see more before making a big commitment to him.

There's no particular reason to rush anything anyway.

Theres no particular reason to wait, in my opinion.  Take care of your homegrown first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Theres no particular reason to wait, in my opinion.  Take care of your homegrown first.

It's going to cost us when both Mantha and AA score 30 and net 50-60 points. But we'll have plenty of cap space to re-sign them. 

I agree, take care of you homegrown for sure.  I hope neither gets traded, but if that #1 D becomes available, or maybe even a #1 RH'd sniper, I could see a deal being made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Theres no particular reason to wait, in my opinion.  Take care of your homegrown first.

For RFAs there is every reason to wait.  Mantha and Bertuzzi will want to wait because both will get more money if they perform as good or better than they did a year ago.  Wings' management will want to wait on AA because even though he had a breakout year last season it's hard to tell whether he's going to consistently perform at that level.  Wait, see if he does it again, before giving him "30 goal scorer per year" money rather than "20 goal scorer per year" money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

rumor, but we are hearing our name alot in the Point trade rumors. What would you give up?

I think you'd have to give up a top prospect and a 1st at least.  Probably Zadina or Veleno and a 2020 1st to get the conversation started, maybe a depth prospect on defense as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I think you'd have to give up a top prospect and a 1st at least.  Probably Zadina or Veleno and a 2020 1st to get the conversation started, maybe a depth prospect on defense as well. 

what about Rasmussen and a 2021 1st, maybe toss a Berggren in too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LeftWinger said:

what about Rasmussen and a 2021 1st, maybe toss a Berggren in too?

I said a TOP prospect.  You're not getting a 23 year old, cost controlled, 90+ point center for cast aways.  You're going to pay a premium, which means a 1st (which I hope Yzerman is smart enough to make conditional) and a top prospect (Zadina, Veleno, Seider). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I said a TOP prospect.  You're not getting a 23 year old, cost controlled, 90+ point center for cast aways.  You're going to pay a premium, which means a 1st (which I hope Yzerman is smart enough to make conditional) and a top prospect (Zadina, Veleno, Seider). 

The only thing that makes me hesitate is he's only scored 90+ once, and that was on a team that totaled 62 wins and 128 points.  Not saying he can't be a consistent 90+ point player, but his previous years were 66 and 40.  I believe the team he played with had a ton to do with his 92 points.  I feel that on most other teams he goes back down to 60-70 points, which, to me, lessens his trade value.  But you're right, someone will pay up for him because of this one year (same with Marner,) I hope it's not Yzerman.  I do not want to give up either of Zadina or Veleno OR our 2020 1st round pick, PLUS pay him $9M-$10M on the chance that he'll get 90-100 again playing with Larkin, AA and Mantha instead of Stamkos, Kucherov and Hedman. If it'll cost what you are saying, I'll pass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

The only thing that makes me hesitate is he's only scored 90+ once, and that was on a team that totaled 62 wins and 128 points.  Not saying he can't be a consistent 90+ point player, but his previous years were 66 and 40.  I believe the team he played with had a ton to do with his 92 points.  I feel that on most other teams he goes back down to 60-70 points, which, to me, lessens his trade value.  But you're right, someone will pay up for him because of this one year (same with Marner,) I hope it's not Yzerman.  I do not want to give up either of Zadina or Veleno OR our 2020 1st round pick, PLUS pay him $9M-$10M on the chance that he'll get 90-100 again playing with Larkin, AA and Mantha instead of Stamkos, Kucherov and Hedman. If it'll cost what you are saying, I'll pass.

He's an RFA, he's not getting 9 or 10 million dollars.  And while that team was an offensive juggernaut, it's just as likely that good players playing with other good players is a net positive for all involved.  Kinda like how ALL of Mantha, Larkin, and Bertuzzi's numbers increased when they started playing together.  It's just as likely that a fair portion of Kucherov's points can be attributed to playing with Point as well.  I'd trade ANY of Zadina, Veleno, or Seider plus our 2020 1st (conditional to protect if it's a top 3-5 pick) for Point, and basically any of our mid-tier prospects or roster players as well. 

Edited by kipwinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I am just gun shy.  But I do believe (unless they take a 1 year hometown deal) both Marner and Point are getting $9M+.

I trust Steve will do the right thing of course, and unlike Holland, he will not overpay for a player, so if he does acquire Point, I will trust he will pay what they are worth to him.  I guess we have to start somewhere, and acquiring a potential 100 point player would be a huge step in the right rebuild direction.

 

so, Zadina, Berggren, 2020 1st (Lottery protected to go to 2021) for Point? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I guess I am just gun shy.  But I do believe (unless they take a 1 year hometown deal) both Marner and Point are getting $9M+.

I trust Steve will do the right thing of course, and unlike Holland, he will not overpay for a player, so if he does acquire Point, I will trust he will pay what they are worth to him.  I guess we have to start somewhere, and acquiring a potential 100 point player would be a huge step in the right rebuild direction.

 

so, Zadina, Berggren, 2020 1st (Lottery protected to go to 2021) for Point? 

Of the top tier prospect I'd prefer to lose Zadina, then Seider, then lastly Veleno.  If a throw in is necessary I'd prefer it not be the same position as the main trade chip. So if you trade Seider, don't throw in a defenseman, if you trade Zadina don't throw in a winger, don't have to worry about it if you trade Veleno because we don't have any other decent centers.  So while I'd still do the trade you listed above, I'd prefer it be Zadina + McIsaac/Lindstrom + 1st (conditional) OR Seider + Berggren + 1st (conditional). 

At the end of the day this is all just an intellectual exercise anyway. Tampa is in "win now" mode, they're not letting Point walk.  I think they'd trade half their team rather than lose a core guy like him. 

Edited by kipwinger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

The only thing that makes me hesitate is he's only scored 90+ once, and that was on a team that totaled 62 wins and 128 points.  Not saying he can't be a consistent 90+ point player, but his previous years were 66 and 40.  I believe the team he played with had a ton to do with his 92 points.  I feel that on most other teams he goes back down to 60-70 points, which, to me, lessens his trade value.  But you're right, someone will pay up for him because of this one year (same with Marner,) I hope it's not Yzerman.  I do not want to give up either of Zadina or Veleno OR our 2020 1st round pick, PLUS pay him $9M-$10M on the chance that he'll get 90-100 again playing with Larkin, AA and Mantha instead of Stamkos, Kucherov and Hedman. If it'll cost what you are saying, I'll pass.

Point's 2018-19 shooting percentage = 21.5%. I think you're right to be skeptical.

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If Yzerman was seriously considering acquiring Point this year, I doubt he would have thrown money at Nemeth and Filppula.
His moves to me are reflective of another tank year. Adding Point now would be outside that vision.

I wouldn't worry. Seems like Eklund is the only household name who's reporting ("reporting") on this, and I'm willing to bet NHLTradeRumors is just piggybacking for the clicks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

an outside look, some information and our outlook for the upcoming season in the prospect department

https://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-top-line-prediction-2019-20/

https://lastwordonhockeyprospects.com/2019/07/23/detroit-red-wings-prospects-2/

and I can recommend this podcast(119), really interesting interview with Shawn Horcoff

 

edit: 14:20 is the start of the prospect talk, before that general stuff but still interesting

Edited by ely s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ely s said:

an outside look, some information and our outlook for the upcoming season in the prospect department

https://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-top-line-prediction-2019-20/

https://lastwordonhockeyprospects.com/2019/07/23/detroit-red-wings-prospects-2/

and I can recommend this podcast(119), really interesting interview with Shawn Horcoff

 

edit: 14:20 is the start of the prospect talk, before that general stuff but still interesting

Man, our prospect pool is weak.  Zadina, Hronek, Seider, and Veleno are Red Wings.  I dont really consider them prospects.  That leaves McIsaac and Berggren as our top prospects.  Ouch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Man, our prospect pool is weak.  Zadina, Hronek, Seider, and Veleno are Red Wings.  I dont really consider them prospects.  That leaves McIsaac and Berggren as our top prospects.  Ouch

LOL What? U must be trolling. 

When you take a team's first two picks in the last three or four drafts and "don't consider them prospects" then yeah, the prospect pool is going to look "weak". 

Also, you forgot Rasmussen

Also, you forgot Cholowski

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

LOL What? U must be trolling. 

When you take a team's first two picks in the last three or four drafts and "don't consider them prospects" then yeah, the prospect pool is going to look "weak". 

Also, you forgot Rasmussen

Also, you forgot Cholowski

 

Those guys should be Red Wings too.  1st round draft picks for a reason = theyre good.  Its different if the 2002 Red Wings is our squad.  Then all of those guys are prospects and in GR.  But our team stinks right now because our players stink.  Time for some turnover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/19/2019 at 11:02 AM, kipwinger said:

He's an RFA, he's not getting 9 or 10 million dollars.  And while that team was an offensive juggernaut, it's just as likely that good players playing with other good players is a net positive for all involved.  Kinda like how ALL of Mantha, Larkin, and Bertuzzi's numbers increased when they started playing together.  It's just as likely that a fair portion of Kucherov's points can be attributed to playing with Point as well.  I'd trade ANY of Zadina, Veleno, or Seider plus our 2020 1st (conditional to protect if it's a top 3-5 pick) for Point, and basically any of our mid-tier prospects or roster players as well. 

Dubas screwed the pooch with Matthews by opening up the checkbook without any hesitation...Also at this point in time it looks as though Nylander got the best of Dubas as well.

I would be shocked if Marner took anything less than $10 million...Dubas set himself up for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When it comes to trading one of our core, you guys know I am against it, BUT if it came to acquiring RFA Zach Werenski?  I'd trade 1 of Mantha, AA, Rasmussen or Zadina PLUS another prospect (Berggren or McIsaac?) AND a lottery protected 2020 1st for him. He is the ONLY D that I would make that deal for in today's NHL.

I wonder what the hold up is on signing him? They have plenty of cap space. They took a huge hit UFA day, maybe he isn't liking the direction of the team and is holding out? Haven't heard much on him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

When it comes to trading one of our core, you guys know I am against it, BUT if it came to acquiring RFA Zach Werenski?  I'd trade 1 of Mantha, AA, Rasmussen or Zadina PLUS another prospect (Berggren or McIsaac?) AND a lottery protected 2020 1st for him. He is the ONLY D that I would make that deal for in today's NHL.

I wonder what the hold up is on signing him? They have plenty of cap space. They took a huge hit UFA day, maybe he isn't liking the direction of the team and is holding out? Haven't heard much on him.

I could see this. They werent good enough last year to get out of the first round, then they loose Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky and gain Nyquist. They are likely going to be an average team at best this season unless they have studs coming up that I dont know about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now