2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

[Buppy 1,720]

Offer sheets don't work. I know I say it every year, and I know no one will ever accept it, but I have to say it anyway: Offer sheets don't work.

If a team would be willing to let a player go for the compensation, they'd also be willing to trade said player, and that would be much better for both teams. 

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I really hope he plays in Grand Rapids this season.

I wouldn't mind seeing him in Mannheim this season. But for his development GR is maybe the better place.

[Dabura 12,232]

1 hour ago, Buppy said:

Offer sheets don't work. I know I say it every year, and I know no one will ever accept it, but I have to say it anyway: Offer sheets don't work.

If a team would be willing to let a player go for the compensation, they'd also be willing to trade said player, and that would be much better for both teams. 

And I'd add that the futility of it all is more a feature than it is a bug. Owners want RFAs to have as little bargaining power as possible; if the offer sheet system truly incentivized pillaging other teams' best young players, you can be pretty sure the system wouldn't last more than one season.

It's a fight that's been brewing for a while now. Could be a central issue in the upcoming lockout.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, Buppy said:

Offer sheets don't work. I know I say it every year, and I know no one will ever accept it, but I have to say it anyway: Offer sheets don't work.

If a team would be willing to let a player go for the compensation, they'd also be willing to trade said player, and that would be much better for both teams. 

Offer sheets can work if done properly. If a team put in an offer sheet on Kapanen for around $4.2M, Kapanen would have definitely signed it, since the Leafs were only offering $3-3.5M, and I highly doubt the Leafs would have been able to match, given their cap situation. Kapanen would be worth the contract and the 2nd round pick compensation. Sure, in theory the Leafs could match, and attempt to trade him immediately after for more than a 2nd round pick, but realistically, would Kapanen get a whole lot more than a 2nd round pick? Maybe, maybe a late first, but probably not.

[ely s 458]

On 7/15/2019 at 3:57 AM, krsmith17 said:

Offer sheets can work if done properly. If a team put in an offer sheet on Kapanen for around $4.2M, Kapanen would have definitely signed it, since the Leafs were only offering $3-3.5M, and I highly doubt the Leafs would have been able to match, given their cap situation. Kapanen would be worth the contract and the 2nd round pick compensation. Sure, in theory the Leafs could match, and attempt to trade him immediately after for more than a 2nd round pick, but realistically, would Kapanen get a whole lot more than a 2nd round pick? Maybe, maybe a late first, but probably not.

it might have worked, but does anyone take the reputation you get through this into account?  next time you are in a situation like that, teams probably think they´ve done it, we do it. I prefer the "fair" way of trading for a player, instead of stealing him.

Edited July 16, 2019 by ely s

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, ely s said:

it might have worked, but does anyone take the reputation you get through this into account?  next time you are in a situation like that, teams probably think they´ve done it, we do it. I prefer the "fair" way of trading for a player, instead of stealing him.

The key is not getting into a situation that the Leafs are currently in, where they don't have the cap space to sign their core players. Offer sheets rarely happen, and even more rare do they actually work. My point was just that they can work if done properly.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, ely s said:

it might have worked, but does anyone take the reputation you get through this into account?  next time you are in a situation like that, teams probably think they´ve done it, we do it. I prefer the "fair" way of trading for a player, instead of stealing him.

I remember our organization was PISSED at Karmanos for offer sheeting Fedorov.

[Akakabuto 1,842]

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Brayden-Point-could-be-movedDetroit-Montreal-and/1/100537

I know it's Eklund but I'm bored.

[LeftWinger 5,131]

6 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I remember our organization was PISSED at Karmanos for offer sheeting Fedorov.

Yes, but remember, Ilitch and Karmanos pretty much hated each other for a long, LONG time prior to that.  Which I think is the 100% reason Karmanos tried to poach Ilitch's prize center, and why Ilitch matched the offer as soon as Sergei signed it.  That feud ran much deeper than Fedorov.

1 hour ago, Akakabuto said:

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Brayden-Point-could-be-movedDetroit-Montreal-and/1/100537

I know it's Eklund but I'm bored.

Detroit has what it takes to trade for him... I wonder what it would take?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Brayden-Point-could-be-movedDetroit-Montreal-and/1/100537

I know it's Eklund but I'm bored.

To be fair to Eklund Montreal did submit an offer sheet to Point which Point rejected from what I saw.

[Akakabuto 1,842]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To be fair to Eklund Montreal did submit an offer sheet to Point which Point rejected from what I saw.

So we know that the habs are willing to give up atleast two 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd in a trade(deal done with Point)? Assuming that the offersheet was in the range of 8,5 to 10,5 mil. Don't see us competing with that.

 

[ely s 458]

he turned it down, so probably it was the same as Aho´s, what would have been a 1st,2nd and 3rd. I think he is asking for too much(9mil +) Tampa has only 10.5 mil in cap space (incl ltir money for Callahan) and 3 players to sign including Point. So there might be a chance for a trade, but that doesn´t necessarily has to match the compensation for an offer sheet. two different things. He might be traded before a contract gets done.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, ely s said:

he turned it down, so probably it was the same as Aho´s, what would have been a 1st,2nd and 3rd. I think he is asking for too much(9mil +) Tampa has only 10.5 mil in cap space (incl ltir money for Callahan) and 3 players to sign including Point. So there might be a chance for a trade, but that doesn´t necessarily has to match the compensation for an offer sheet. two different things. He might be traded before a contract gets done.

Is marner better?

[Buppy 1,720]

13 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The key is not getting into a situation that the Leafs are currently in, where they don't have the cap space to sign their core players. Offer sheets rarely happen, and even more rare do they actually work. My point was just that they can work if done properly.

No, still doesn't work. They just match it and make up the extra million somewhere else. Even if you can find the perfect storm of a situation where a team will let a player go without you grossly over-paying that player, you would still be better off negotiating a trade. 

If Toronto was going to let Kapanen go for a 2nd, maybe they'd let him go for Glendening and a 4th or something like that which would be better for both sides. 

Offer sheets don't work.

Sure, we could try to brainstorm hypotheticals like "what if Ottawa was actually good, and expected to make the playoffs for the next four years, but still had all the cap space, and offered Marner 16x7?", but if you have to think that hard it's better to just simplify it to "offer sheets don't work". 

[ely s 458]

10 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Is marner better?

I don´t see a chance Marner will play here and doubt that Point finds a new home in Detroit, to be honest I never really thought about any of these players.

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

38 minutes ago, ely s said:

I don´t see a chance Marner will play here and doubt that Point finds a new home in Detroit, to be honest I never really thought about any of these players.

 

Yah, i thought theyd have contracts by now, tho.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

I think Bobby Margarita said when he gets back from his summer vacation in September he still expects many RFA's to be unsigned. Was a tweet from yesterday I believe.

[ely s 458]

i think arbitration hearings start around the 22nd until 5th of august or something like that.

edit: 20th till 4th

Edited July 17, 2019 by ely s

[LeftWinger 5,131]

now that the frenzy has died, and the big money has pretty much been spent, if you could get Gardiner for $3M-ish, would you take him for 2-3 years?

[gcom007 1,465]

23 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To be fair to Eklund Montreal did submit an offer sheet to Point which Point rejected from what I saw.

To be fairrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Dabura 12,232]

54 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

now that the frenzy has died, and the big money has pretty much been spent, if you could get Gardiner for $3M-ish, would you take him for 2-3 years?

I'd love to have him on a one-year deal (trade deadline chip). I wouldn't hate him at $3M x 2. Our blue line is poised to go from way too old to way too young over the course of the next year and Gardiner could be a nice stopgap, possibly replacing Green in the top four.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

 

[F.Michael 4,590]

16 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

Hicketts with the missing chicklets...Good depth signing.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

Are there rules about when u can resign RFAs?   Im wondering why Yzerman isnt getting deals for AA, Mantha, and Bert done this summer.  Do we have to wait?

[Buppy 1,720]

15 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Are there rules about when u can resign RFAs?   Im wondering why Yzerman isnt getting deals for AA, Mantha, and Bert done this summer.  Do we have to wait?

No, but typically RFAs would prefer to wait unless they think they can get a big payday already. They have no leverage now. Mantha and Bert in particular are probably optimistic about their ability to increase their value this season. I could see AA going for a deal this summer though, but in his case it may be Yzerman would want to see more before making a big commitment to him.

There's no particular reason to rush anything anyway.